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Santa Claus, The Easter Buny and the Tooth Fairy
Posted by faithsju243 • 8/01/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: children, discipline, fairy tales, General, myths, random, santa claus, stories
Are we teaching our children that little white lies are ok if they make people feel good or preserving their innocense?
It's silly I know but sometimes I think we send so many mixed messages to kids it's a wonder more of them aren't screwed up. We tell our children not to lie but we constantly lie to them hence the fat man in the red suit. We tell our children not to hit but discipline them by spanking?
Are we sending the wrong messages?
User Comments
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I have been called the "Christmas Nazi" because I refuse to tell my kids Santa is real. It is nothing but a lie, no matter how well intentioned, and I do not make a habit of lying to my kids.-
Stop it X-mas Nazi please let the children laugh....kidding. Do you think that approach will make them cynics before their time?
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No, but it will let them know they can trust me tell them the truth. My parents told me Santa was not real and I was still the most idealist, gullible child.
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I think you're right, after finding out that for yrs my parents lied to me about this whole santa thing I began to wonder what else that I thought was the truest truth was just another adult lie to appease the child in me.
Of course the down side to that was the constant questioning of everything that anyone told me until I could prove it for myself.
As you can see I have trust issues :-D
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I think we are sending the wrong message--in more than these little white lies. I've thought a lot about this--it's not silly at all. The lies commonly fed to children fail to prepare them for the real world & has the potential to contribute to later rebellion/alienation, I think.-
You really think Santa has that far a reach....I guess you have a point but once I found out about Santa it didn't make me want to go smoke pot or anything just made me question what others presented as the truth.
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Yes and Santa is all about materialism. Instead of writing lists of THINGS they want from Santa, I have my kids help me help people. Last year, we sent out 6 of the Samaritan's Purse shoe boxes. I took my kids to the store and had my daughter pick out stuff to fill shoeboxes for 3 little girls her age and my son chose stuff for 3 boys his age. They also help me shop for and leave food on people's porches as "secret santas"
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I did something like that as a child. My biological mother used to run the St. Vincent DePaul Society for the church that we attended when I was young. During the holidays, a whole bunch of us, young and old, would take monetary donations collected and get gift baskets, food baskets, and Christmas gifts for kids together and deliver them. I didn't mind one bit doing this, except for the part where we went to deliver them. It was tough seeing young kids realizing that there was no such thing as Santa Claus that they learned about from other children and television. -
I think when kids learn the truth, they're not really sad. They just make a note of it and maybe feel a little foolish. As long as the presents keep coming, I don't think they care who brings them.
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@calais50 I dig this idea I gonna steal it and bring it to my instant gratification/materilistic friends for the holiday season. It really embodies the "spirit of the season."
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Awesome! It's a wonderful feeling to know that some child who may have never received a Christmas present is going to have a happier Christmas.
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@Robin
"I think when kids learn the truth, they're not really sad. They just make a note of it and maybe feel a little foolish. As long as the presents keep coming, I don't think they care who brings them."
Sorry Robin, I must disagree with you. Kids are smart. I have seen far too many children suffer broken hearts when they realize that not only they are in poverty, but there are no such thing as Santa, the Easter Bunny, and so on. Tes, children are resilient, but only up to a certain point. Many of times that was all a small boy or girl had, is hope in a Santa Claus.
Like I said, I had no problem getting stuff ready for the holidays..I still do...but I can never be the one to deliver them again. It just killed me. Call me an asshole, but I will never again take the chance of being the face a child sees when they finally realize that there is no Santa Claus. -
I definitely agree with RTB on this. I've seen a lot of smart kids work very hard at continuing to believe, long past the point at which logic dictated that something was amiss. -
faithsju243; No, not that Santa has that far a reach. Did you read my response? We lie to kids about MORE than these silly things.
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@lgramlich...read your response the whole "santa with the far reach" was a little sarcasm. I'm just not sure I am making the leap from the white lie to being unprepared for the real world and causing rebellious behavior.
My initial point to the post was to find out if by telling "white" lies to children do we set the stage for them to disregard the truth as they grow up. The lie was told to keep them innocent but are we molding a society where we lie out of convenience with no regard for the truth.
The other thing was are we making our children doubt us as parents...creating a nation of little cynics because of the lies we tell. -
faithsju243; I understand the question. I agreed that the white lies are destructive. Of course the Santa lie alone isn't likely to cause serious problems, but when you add up ALL parental lies, it can result in disaster.
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Well, some might say it's just a dress rehearsal for believing what they're told in church...
I certainly wouldn't say something that that, though.-
I wouldn't say it either, but I'd certainly agree with anyone who would.
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what do you mean santa isn't real bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! I still believe in the magic of santa, although I never could get past hearing him speak with an American accent.-
good one
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I was very uncomfortable telling my kid about Santa, etc. My ex insisted we do it. But the very first time my kid questioned it, I let her in on it. She was maybe 6. Pissed off the ex, but she got over it.
Maybe she didn't, now that I think about it.
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wrong place
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I think this is the least of our worries in this regard. Many parents constantly tell their children not to lie, but then lie right in front of them for a variety of reasons--to make an excuse not to come in to work or attend a social event; to stall bill collectors; to make themselves appear more responsible than they are (and a thousand other things). The clear message this sends to kids is that lying is one of those things like cursing or drinking alcohol that seems to be okay for adults and arbitrarily off limits to them, rather than an actual imporant moral standard.
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Maybe the Santa lie is good preparation for life, it's an early lesson in not to believe everything you are told, it may teach them the value of questioning.-
Maybe...but the longer they don't question, the longer they get the loot, so it might have the opposite effect and teach that it's better not to know.
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Yeah, raising kids is a minefield! Thinking back I don't ever remember fully believing in Santa, I think most kids really know but play along with it.
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I don't know I've seen some pretty hysterically crying kids when they found out the ugly truth that Santa is just not true.
It always ends with a question...why did mom or dad lie to me?
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Excellent article today.
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My family didn't celebrate Christmas, (I think it was because my parents couldn't afford gifts for 7 children) but my hubby and I have celebrated Christmas with our children, we exchange gifts, but the giver is always recognized, we never gave " Santa" the credit for the gifts that we/someone worked so hard to provide. They have done the same thing with their children.
The community usually has a tree with tags hanging on it at the local shopping center, the tags have the gender/age/and identification number on them, (these people on the tags are very poor), and any one can take a tag or two off the tree, and buy the appropriate gift, wrap it and tape the tag to it. The place it under the (gift tag tree) and at a certain date, volunteers deliver the gifts.
My children and I would each pick out a tag and then we would shop for whatever the tag information gave us. We would have so much fun shopping for someone else, imagining their faces when they opened their gift on Christmas day. It was and still is one of the most cherished traditions that we have done. My grandchildren do it with their parents now too. -
OMG ... have some fun, people! I grew up believing in all that stuff and I don't have any serious social problems. Really, I don't.
Anyway, have some fun! Laugh! Believe in Santa for awhile, most of us did and most of us aren't screwed up ... as much of the media whould have ya believe.
I wasn't devestated when I learned the truth, I was flattered that I was now considered old enough to know what the adults knew (I think I was 8 or 9, lol) It's all in how the parents handle it.
It sounds to me like y'all are still upset Santa isn't real and you want to take the joy & fun from kids and make them all logical and adult-like. They're KIDS!
Make believe, fairy tales, .... IMAGINATION! It's good for ya. Y'all should try it sometime.-
It's just a question Drowsey although I do think most of the Santa Haters Club joined the thread.
I haven't made up my mind yet b/c I think there is something to keeping a child a child but I also don't like the implications of teaching them to lie so young.
I am such a wet noodle if there's a group for wet noodles anonymous I need to join it. -
You're not lieing. I think if you present it to them as something whimsical and fun, made up but kinda real ... then it's wonderful. There's so much joy on my little nephew's faces when they think Santa came ... they're 3 & 5 now, but by the time they're 6 or 8 ... they will have seen the twinkle in all the adult's eyes when we talk about Santa ... and they'll figure it out ... that it's just a game, a fun game that we all play because whimsy is good for the soul.
Their mother, my niece, figured it all out at about 5 years old. She could tell all the adults were playing, so she played along too. It was the same for me. I don't see the harm. -
My mom is very much a traditionalist, but she never tried to force me to believe in it. If I stopped believing, we still celebrated.
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@DrowseyMonkey I am with you. My oldest son loves the idea of Santa. My youngest will also. Its a fun tradition and it helps them understand the joy of giving in a fun way. We teach our children that Chistmas is not all about gifts. Same with easter (though my wife has some really cool traditions using the Easter bunny).
Its all for love and joy. Have at it!
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I have wondered the same thing and I tend to agree with you. This is a great subject. I disagree with DrowseyMonkey in that 'as much of the media would have ya believe', I think it's the other way around. -
The problem is not with santa it is with the message attached to santa....kids do not write to santa anymore they write to samson nike and apple....the gift instead of the act of giving is the main focus in most traditions these days....I believe in a Creator I cannot see can't see that being any different to believing in santa maybe he does exist can you prove he doesn't?-
Well, it's definitely different, Robin, unless you are secretly performing acts and telling someone else that the creator has performed them. You may not be able to prove that Santa doesn't exist, but you can damned sure prove that mom and dad were lying when they went out and bought that new bicycle, hid it in the neighbor's garage, smuggled it into the house after midnight and then said they didn't know where it came from and Santa must have brought it.
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They are beautiful things that we canhe create parables and stories about virtue.
Santa Claus for me represents virtue of giving
Easter Bunny, now hyou live him alone, I like chocolate
The tooth fairy takes the pain away-
You have point after getting my teeth pulled out by a piece of string attached to a door I was happy to see a dollar or two under my pillow in it's place.
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wire is better, it's more painful, and if it's even better if the wire gets caught, you fly across the romm and slam into the door
The industry standard is $5 a tooth now -
I'll have to remember that when I sneak in all stealth like and hide the money under my Godson's pillow.
Damn this economy. -
Not "this economy", Faith--Tony is in Australia.
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Oh well that explains I can be a cheapie and give him a buck a tooth yipee!
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kids are getting smarter
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Has anyone thought about the other side of the Santa issue?
We teach our children a bit about humility without even knowing we are doing it. We spend probably more than we can afford to get our kids everything they wish for. Yet, we do not get the credit for this, Santa does.
I think that this tradition teaches our kids about what true giving is. It's not about taking credit or getting your Kudos, it's about taking care of other peoples wants and needs.
Well, at least that is what I learned. -
I think that if you want your kids to survive as adults, you should perpetuate their childhood for as long as is possible and reasonable..encourage belief in faries, santa, pixies, dragons and giants...imagination is important, and we have a duty to spark it into life as soon as possible because in truth...a good imagination will stave off a breakdown every time.-
Then why do so many noted writers and artists and such struggle with mental illness and addictions?
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Well, not all do ... but I'd rather be whimsical than not ... especially as a child. My imagination has been a saving grace IMO. Life has a lot of bad stuff in it, it's about how you handle that bad stuff. Creativity and a sense of wonder can be a wonderful help.
I mean, even as adults we partake in that kind of stuff through books, tv, movies, games ... it's just fun. Fun is good.
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out of the millions of adults who were once children who believed in santa I am not sure there would be a connection or link to mental illness because of it....there may be a stronger connection with those children who grew up and had to be adults before the time
p.s I still hang my stocking up-
Ahh...that's a good point.
I hang-up a stocking too!
Maybe this information isn't convincing to people, HA! -
Robin, did someone suggest that believing in Santa Claus caused mental illness? I know that I didn't, and as far as I can see, I'm the only one who mentioned mental illness...in response to the suggestion that a good imagination would "stave off a breakdown every time"
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I think it might actually serve some useful purpose to promote these childish myths. When kids finally figure out it's all just a game, they learn skepticism -- don't believe everything people tell you. -
I still believe in Santa in a way. Really. I guess for me Santa was about more than getting things, so perhaps that's why I've hung on to the belief. He represents everything that's magical about the holidays - family, friends, winter, hot chocolate, Christmas carols. I admit it, I'm a sap.
I have the most innocent, sweet, delightful child who asks questions about Santa all year long - how he's doing, where he lives, what he eats, what the elves are like, etc. I hope I've created the same magic in his life regarding Santa that I've experienced in mine. It took until the last couple of years for my son to even understand there were gifts involved with Santa, and while he has certainly enjoyed the material end of things, he seems to balance it with the delight in all things magical.
It's kind of like fairy gold dust, which he fully believes in as well. And I love that about him.-
By natural construct I think kids are just full of hope and are tuned into the possibility of everything, with imaginary worlds and friends etc etc etc....as parents I think we should foster an environment where their imagination can run wild but do we have to do that by adding yr long tales about things that don't exist.
As a parent how do we tell a child that lying is bad but we've kept up or created multiple lies to keep the santa or easter bunny thing running. By calling it a game doesn't make any less a lie. -
You may be right in lots of cases, but for my child and many others you couldn't be more wrong. He is autistic and pretend play does not come naturally (nor taught) to him whatsoever. We created an imaginary friend (that would be George!) for him. Full of hope? Possibility of everything? For him, no way. And before you tell me we could've done something less huge than Santa for him to find out isn't true (someday, if ever!), it wouldn't work. My kid operates in extremes, and huge (in his world) is all he responds to. He had an obsessive fear about death, so we created/talked about heaven for him and how wonderful it is. It was the only way we could get through the day without him freaking out about dying. So worrying about whether or not he's going to be upset about the "lie" (which I still don't think it is, not the way we talk about Santa at our house), is not on my top list of priorities.
Sorry, I get frustrated to hear generalizations like that! 8 years ago I would've just disagreed with you and not thought anymore about it, but my life has changed so drastically, and what I think has changed so drastically. No longer are kids like him the exception; they are such a huge part of the population that we simply can no longer assume much about kids, in my opinion!
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I knew a little girl who was really really horrified at the thought of Santa Clause. She was afraid of a man breaking into her home in the middle of the night while everyone was asleep. It was so bad that her mom had to tell her it was not true. -
my parents never told me there was a santa claus, they just let me think what i wanted to until i was old enough to question it and then they'd respond with "well what do you think?"
i decided i didn't believe anymore and that was that. but it was fun while it lasted, you don't get the chance to believe in magic when you're older - i don't advocate lying to kids, but if they believe on their own i don't see the harm -
You mean Santa Claus is not real? Then who was that kissing mommy.-
LMFAO
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I think it depends on how you approach the subject, actually. For any of the issues you brought up.
Allowing children to enjoy a bit of whimsy is perfectly alright in my book - they will have the rest of their lives to deal with a less than magical lifetime.
Teaching children that their is an appropriate time and place for certain behaviors (anger, hitting, and yelling included) is better than simply directing them to stop behaving like that at all times.
Forcing beliefs down their throats? Not so much a good idea.-
"Teaching children that their is an appropriate time and place for certain behaviors (anger, hitting, and yelling included) is better than simply directing them to stop behaving like that at all times."
If you believe that. -
There is a time and a place for everything.
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I am ROFL here. I just asked my two oldest kids, 19 and 16 how they felt about finding out about things 'not being real' and they're fine with it. So was I. I perpetuate the LIE and I'm not sorry for it at all.
My kids know what Christmas is really about and they also know they history of Santa and they're not pot smoking morons or rebellious gits. Actually, one of them is in college and the other is an honor roll student.
They both just laughed about it and wondered why I was asking.-
@annie...I don't think I ever implied that these types of lies would make children pot smoking morons or rebellious. I do recall someone mentioning that and I am on your side of the fence in that respect.
I do however, think it sends a mixed message about lying in general. It grays the water meaning in some situations it is ok to lie if you think it's gonna make others feel better.
The second part of this is the idea that it can create little skeptics b/c you start to wonder what else your parents told you that wasn't true just to make you feel good. Not that I think being a skeptic is inherently bad.
Just some thoughts I was having lately....I don't know. -
Well, I'm on the fence about white lies. I mean, when someone has been crying, having a bad moment and then needs to go face others, when they clean up their nose and smooth back their hair and take a deep breath to ask, "Do I look OK?", do you tell them, "No, honey, you look like heck!" and then watch them burst into tears again? No, we tell them they look "just fine" and pat them on the back no matter what they look like.
I know Santa isn't in the same boat, but I think that sometimes we do say things we shouldn't to try and help the moment along. I don't think that's necessarily wrong. I don't think anyone should make a habit of it or do it "just because", but I'm not so haughty to say that we should all tell the truth all the time no matter what.
I guess it's just not all so black and white and I get where you're coming from. So far all of my kids that have found out about the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny and Santa are all fine and no worse for the wear. When daddy starts telling them that he's not home when the phone rings, though - I really have issues with that sort of thing. That's definitely a bad message sending sort of thing to do. -
It's the same as a friend asking if she looks good in a new dress that you know is hideous. I'm always good for saying that no the dress isn't the best but you look awesome in...you know lighten the mood but still tell the truth. Sometimes there's no easy fix....darn those gray areas.
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I like telling children the following about both holidays: Jesus' birth (celebrated on December 25th - though we know this was not his real birth day) and Jesus' resurrection from death (easter). Sadly, some children think these holy days are really about getting physical presents and candy.
*Sigh*-
Not everyone is Christian. And the christians did a good job of co-opting a lot of pagan traditions, so it's really not about today's secular society using crhistian traditions to give gifts.
And eventho I'm not christian ... these holidays aren't about getting stuff. They're about family & friends sharing time, the wonder and fun of it all.
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We are teaching them how to create imaginary things so they will have an easier time dealing with real life by creating fanatasies. -
you've forgotten the witches of Halloween. I picked witches but you could pick any figure you like to represent that day. The real point isn't about believing in something or someone mythical but the kidnapping of these feast days, Christmas, Resurrection, and All Soul's Eve and turning them into something purly materialistic. Our secular marketing mad first-world culture is getting ugly.
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Now, THAT I agree with!
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Our secular mad marketing culture got ugly a very long time ago--but it's not about a few particular days of the year. I wrote about this at Christmastime: catholicinside.blogspot.com/2007/12/reclaiming-christmas-its-wrong-goal.htm...
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Umm...Christians got their traditions from either secular holidays or Jewish holidays. Christians didn't create these holidays, and today's secular society didn't take them Christianity to make them a day to give gifts.
Many people, like myself, don't celebrate these days as religious holidays, but my family & friends aren't heartless people either, running around on a leash from the mass marketing media mindlessly buying more and more stuff.
Just because we don't infuse a religious belief into our holidays, doesn't mean we aren't capable of gathering for good fellowship. I don't receive gifts at Christmas, just so you know ... nor do I give them to adults. I do buy 1 or 2 things for the children in the family tho. But we've never been a family to over-do the gifts on any holiday. We're just not about that.
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I mean i think its playful lie! i mean people lie to each other for jokes. I wouldn't consider lying to children about santa claus a lie. its tradition. i mean you grew up thinking there was santa claus like all of us for a little bit but it goes away? you realize that its only a myth to keep people entertained. -
Oh, I really would not have wanted to deny my child or myself these small pleasures of childhood and parenting. And I certainly wouldn't want others telling me and my family how to do it. Let families have their traditions already.
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Yeah, what he said.
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And there's a difference between myths and lies, stories and lies. There's a huge difference. Just because fiction does not equal facts and lies do not equal facts does not mean that fiction equals lies. False logic.
(Edited to add:) Stories and myths make us part of who we are. I'm not just talking Santa now, but about stories and myths in general. -
@markstoneman....sorry but you can put a pig in a dress it doesn't change that it's a pig. The definition of a myth is an unproven or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution. In other words, a lie. Yes a dressed up lie but a lie none the less.
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@ faith,
in the words of Samuel L, "pork tastes good" -
@kevin....yes yes yes the other white meat :-D
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By your definition most religion would be lies, at least those that depend on stories and texts. So would most great works of literature. So would all the fairy tales that can contain important lessons. That would be a cultural, intellectual and spiritual impoverishment that I would not want to contemplate.
I stand by my assertion that your equation does not work, and I add to it the observation that your understanding of myth and mine are very different in this particular case. Take a look at the following definitions: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/myth I am referring to the first definition there, and you mean the second. We could play the same game with fiction (fact versus fiction), but there is often more truth in good works of fiction than can come out in non-fiction. -
"there is often more truth in good works of fiction than can come out in non-fiction."
I definitely agree with this, but surely it's different when the reader (or listener) understands that it's a work of fiction? -
Sure, but to return to the OP, were you making those distinctions when you are at that age when a lot of kids believe in Santa Clause? Be that as it may, I was arguing about the faulty coupling of little stories we have in our culture with lies, and with the notion that we are teaching kids to lie.
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@mark...I think we will have to agree to disagree but I like that you gave me some food for thought.
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I think we're teaching kids to play and have fun. I grew up with all that stuff, I'm not a lier. I don't lie when I interact with people. But I do have an excellent imagination and a wonderful capacity to have fun and see the humour in almost every situation.
I'm very grateful that my parents instilled that joyfulness in me at an early age ... and that we continued it even up to the point of my father's passing. We gave him a stocking from Santa at Christmas ... which he thoroughly enjoyed ... he was quite concerned over where he was gonna hang his stocking in the nursing home! lol Anyway, a few weeks later he passed away. What a wonderful thing, to still have that wonderment and joy at the end of ones life.
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