Discussions
Sarah Palin's Terrible Speech
Posted by RMania • 9/05/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: palin, republican convention, rnc
I fully understand that Sarah Palin's RNC speech was effective at energizing her party's base; I'm not arguing that. But for anybody who values common sense, truth, honesty, and substance over style when it comes to politics, I don't know how you could have found the speech anything but absolutely terrible.
First off, she once again blatantly lied about the pork barrel "bridge to nowhere" project which she DID enthusiastically support, only to change her position later when it became a political embarrassment. Secondly, I really don't care if her children play hockey and don't need to be reminded about it every 5 minutes. And if the only difference between a hockey mom and pitbull is lipstick, then what is that bright red tubular thing between a pitbull's hind legs?
Her flippant dismissal of Obama's time as a community organizer was the low point for me. Oh how terrible, Obama helped poverty-stricken communities on the south side of Chicago before pursuing a political career. "A small town mayor is a little like being a community organizer... except that you have actual responsibilities." Know what the best part of that was? When Palin was mayor of Nowhere, Alaska, Obama was actually a state senator of Illinois. And at the time that Obama was a community organizer, Palin was a sports reporter and beauty pageant contestant.
In the end, she really had nothing significant to say about herself or anyone or anything else... and her tone and delivery were sarcastic (in an unfunny way) and annoying. I already thought she was a disaster when I first learned about where she stands on various issues... now I also see that she is obnoxious as well.
User Comments
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Palin's speech went down well with her audience. In that respect it was a good speech.
When the Republicans get out their core vote they are difficult to beat. How Palin goes down with independant voters is yet to be seen.
Polybore like many non- US citizens take an interest in US politics. This is because, as has been demonstrated over the years, the effectiveness or otherwise of an incumbent President has a profound effect on the World.
From polybore's point of view, the fact that Palin may have opportunity to be at the helm of the USA, is a deeply troubling. -
"Palin's speech went down well with her audience. In that respect it was a good speech."
I know, I made it a point to say that in the beginning of my post. Really, I am interested to hear from anybody who liked the speech themselves, and why they liked it. For any reason other than stirring up their emotions? What about all the dishonesty, irrelevance, and childishness?
RMania thanks polybore for responding. -
You want to hear from others? Here you go:
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/sarah-pallin-vice-president
Perhaps you overlooked the thread on this very same topic with over 650 comments on it.
Just a word of advice...next time you want to start a thread on a hot-button issue, you might want to take two seconds to look around a bit and see of one already exists. Chances are, it does--especially when you think of starting the thread two days after the fact.-
@kristilinauer
come on this post has it's place, it is talking about the speech..... -
I think your blood pressure is rapidly rising krisilinauer. I haven't been on this site in a while and came here just now to check it out, saw some political discussions, so I posted on something I wanted to talk about. Like gmoney pointed out, this discussion is specifically about the speech, not the candidate in general. Plus that thread like you said has 650 comments on it and I wasn't looking to get lost in the mix.
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@RMania,
I feel your passion and I can tell you that kristilinauer and I never really agree on much, but come on no reason to tell her to shut up. I will respect your right to bash just about anything, but she has a point, I don't agree with it, but no reason to tell her to shut up........
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gmoney, maybe you have a point. On the other hand, I thought her comment to me was no less nasty, she just happened to use sarcasm and condescension instead of being more sincere and direct like I was. That annoys me, in a way I'd rather her just say "there is already a thread about this you idiot" because I'm sure that's how she really feels.
But I will remove the "Oh, also, shut up" because I also realize it might violate terms of service here. -
lol timethief...whenever I'm bored I just log in to see what your latest discussion comment is. Those were two gems. still laughing....whoops this should be at the bottom of your two comments on Palin below...
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Excuse me but I believe you have double posted the same topic to both the General Discussion forum and to the Political Disucussion forum too www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/sarah-palins-terrible-speech
Did you intend to have us comment on both threads or were you intending to have one of the duplicates removed by Admin?
Search box results for "Palin speech" speech are found here www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/search.php?q=palin speech
Rules for posting to the discussion forums are found here Read Before Posting www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/read-before-posting-1-
Look, I apologize for not knowing all the rules and regulations of this board that I do not post on frequently. I meant to post it on general initially, but I guess I was alrady in politics area reading stuff so it got put there by default when I started a new discussion.
Admin will hopefully delete that one if they delete any because apparently I cannot do so myself.
In the meantime, feel free to respond to that one as well.
And, thank you for your thoughtful reply to my actual post. -
Being new means you are on a learning curve. I like helping people so I supplied some links to give you a hand.
I have replied to this question in other threads and I have provided you with the link so you can locate all my responses.
Here's one sample:
"In Canada and particularly in the western provinces, playing to fears, prejudices, and minority special interest groups are the hallmarks of desperate political wannbes who are aiming to draw votes from the under-educated. Perhaps America is different in that regard.
If Palin had appeared where I live making fallacious ad hominem attacks against her opponents, using cheap theatrical gestures and delivering a speech that totally lacked substance as it did not address the key issues, she would have NOT been elected as a dog catcher. The folks in my small community would have scoffed her and tossed her out with the cod swallop. In America she's a Vice Presidential candidate. Go figure."
Here's another one:
"What I see when I look at Palin is a misguided opportunist. IMO Palin has made her ambition her first priority and her family her second priority. To me that’s a sign of moral bankruptcy, whether it be manifest in either a man or a woman.
When I compare her speech to Michele Obama's speech, Palin's speech and pales in comparison. IMO Palin lacks the the traits, temperament, record and skills that I want in someone, who intends to hold the executive power of the American federal government, and represent the whole country, as opposed to representing only a minority faction of religious fear mongers." -
post away man, yes there are to many palin post and you can search them. But one more won't hurt
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TT slay off the poor guy, give him a few days
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OK, thank you for supplying those previous responses, timethief. I agree with everything you wrote. It's a sad fact that this is the type of speech deemed "effective." It's because too many people here are so close-minded to anything that might challenge their preconceived opinions and beliefs. They simply do not want to change how they think, so anything that encourages or supports what they currently believe, no matter how dishonest or repugnant, is blindly accepted, taken as gospel.
If people on both sides approached the words and actions of ALL politicians with an equally critical eye, this type of BS would go away.
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Rmania.
"then what is that bright red tubular thing between a pitbull's hind legs?"
What would you be referring to?
Yes, being a community organizer is a noble endeavor. However, compared to a mayor, a community organizer has very little real accountability, when they fail, they might lose the job, thats about it.
Not quite the "executive" experience that he was trying to make it out to be.
"now I also see that she is obnoxious as well."
Oh shut up.... or would that be an obnoxious thing to say?
Maybe just the pot calling the kettle "one of the guys" -
12 years in the state senate is plenty of experience, working with and passing bi-partisan bills is experience.......
and if it was not for community organizers this country would be in a bigger shit hole than we are.
Community organizers and social activist and volunteers mean more to this country than any Mayor or Governor ever could.
The executive experience gibberish is getting weak.-
gmoney, if the Republican strategists hadn't come up with the "executive experience" plan of attack, I can all but guarantee you it wouldn't have occurred to all these McCain-Palin supporters who won't stop talking about it now. In fact, who was talking about that before McCain picked Palin? NOBODY. Then, all that mattered was years of experience. But now, that the type of experience, executive vs. legislative, is suddenly of utmost importance.
So incredibly transparent. -
He still doesn't have the experience to match McCain,
Executive experience is different. And he can't match either McCain or Palin on that. -
csiunatc, yes of course it is a different type of experience. But if you thought executive experience was THAT important, you wouldn't have been supporting McCain before he picked Palin... or you would have at least been vocally pulling for him to pick a VP with that type of experience. Were you? Were most Republicans doing that? I never heard a THING about the necessity of mayoral/governor experience UNTIL Palin was picked.
Smells like BS. -
Hitler was a community organizer too.
Just saying.
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"What would you be referring to?"
What appears to be a tube of lipstick between male pitbulls' hind legs. It's only visible sometimes though.
"Yes, being a community organizer is a noble endeavor. However, compared to a mayor, a community organizer has very little real accountability, when they fail, they might lose the job, thats about it.
Not quite the "executive" experience that he was trying to make it out to be."
Except that Obama never compared it to being mayor, nor did he ever try to make it out to be an important example of executive experience that I know of, please point out where he did if I'm wrong on that.
Palin's comment was so deliberately misleading. It would be like Obama saying "Being a senator is a little like being a PTA member, except you have actual responsibilities." Obama is not claiming community organizer to be his major qualification for president anymore than Palin is claiming PTA board member to be her major qualification for VP.
As far as the shut up comment, I don't have any problem debating stuff like you and I are doing now, I certainly won't tell you to shut up with regard to that, I only said it to the other poster because she only responded to say the same exact thing, "shut up" only through the use of condescending sarcasm.
Sorry, I care more about the intentions of people's words than the actual words themselves.-
damn you were doing great until you stated Sorry, I care more about the intentions of people's words than the actual words themselves. you left your self open...... watch and see not from me, but from people that are not supporters of obama!
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And if you like gmoney can list the BC Republican pitbulls (joke) for you.
It will only take a few lines because there aren't many of them.
IMO Obama supporters would be better served to simply locate the uncommitted voters and present his stand on the issues to them, than they are by engaging in a continued war of cyber words with the same handful of committed BC Republican voters over and over and over again. [SHRUG] -
gmoney - do you know what I mean though? That poster came here, and what really did she say to me beneath all the "advice" about posting on this board? I was just giving it back to her... but I will restrain myself in the future next time somebody delivers me a useless roundabout insult.
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to know TimeThief is to love her, she is just try to keep some standards around here. She can appear to be harsh but she is just real, don't take it personal..... and don't let it turn you off. Plenty of people will post if it is good, if not you thread will slide off to never never land
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gmoney - No I wasn't talking about timethief, I never told him/her to shut up. I was referring to the other poster kristilinauer.
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I just finally saw her speech (I don't own a TV) and I've gotta say: she was awful--folksy, yes, so if that's a virtue, she's got it. She's also one of the more irritating speakers I've heard in a long time. Clearly, expectations for her were extremely low, so, based on that, she did okay, but otherwise, she was just plain bad. Like the rest of the Republicans, she did little other than make ad hominem attacks. Of course, there's a reason for that: they don't have anything else. Their talk of "change" couldn't be more obviously empty, but what choice do they have since they offer nothing but more of the failed policies of Bush & Cheney?-
I agree with you - she was so irritating... her tone, delivery, and content of her speech, everything about it. And it's not just the Obama supporter in me saying that. I didn't think the same about McCain's speech at all, as much as I disagree with him too.
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Tasteless
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ttiger,
You are a freaking idiot. How many pictures could you post here of teenage girls who knew about birth control from their parents or school, but never cared enough to use it and still got pregnant?
Posting Governor Palin's daughter's picture in this way not only shows that you have no clue about teenage pregnancy problem in America, but you find it simply a political joke to play on some social network.-
So far all she did was a read a prepared speech. What is she hiding? The media would be eating Biden up if he was being protected from the press. I mean if shes so ready to run the most powerfull country on earth, why is she not ready to speak to the press?
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ttiger,
Again, you amaze me with your lack of ability to follow the facts. First, the comment I posted had nothing to do with her speech. My comment was addressed at your complete disregard for the issue of teenage pregnancy in America. Something you did not address.
Second,saying "So far all she did was a read a prepared speech. What is she hiding?" Again only shows you do not have a clue about the issues. Have you heard Obama during a debate with out his "teleprompter"? -
palin have some skeleton in her closet and this is just a beginning!
about teen pregnancy issue: this is a very important issue but as long as jesus freak and pro-life will run the country teen pregnancy will happen again and again! -
ttiger,
There is not one thing wrong with encouraging abstinence. Abstinence works 100% of the time, something you can't say for all your birth control programs.
Its sad that you and countless others feel the way to solve teen pregnancy is by condoms and abortion. -
AmmoBob,
"Its sad that you and countless others feel the way to solve teen pregnancy is by condoms and abortion."
What a dishonest statement. First off, you equate being pro-choice with encouraging abortion as a means of birth control. As somebody who believes in a woman's right to abortion, I certainly don't think it should be promoted. And to think that a significant number of women have sex without protection because they know they can just have an abortion later (no big deal!) is absolutely ridiculous.
Also, yes condoms and other forms of contraception are and should be promoted to help prevent teen pregnancies, but that doesn't mean people like me who support that think abstinence should not be considered too. The point is they should ALL be championed, not JUST abstinence.
Because in the real world, which I assume you live in, teens are going to continue have sex, and you are never ever going to stop them. After all, the 17 year old unmarried daughter of one of the most ardent anti-abortion politicians in the country is having sex. You might stop some with abstinence talk, but for the others it helps to promote other solutions that the vast majority of the time will achieve the same exact desired end.
"Abstinence only" is another retarded conservative idea about as effective as waging the war on drugs by putting more people in jail for longer periods of time... a plan that might look good at first glance... but doesn't accomplish much in reality. -
yes to condoms and other forms of contraception but i'm totally against abortion as a methods of contraception (doesn't mean im against ALL abortion because in some case abortion is the best way to go unfortunately for woman and girls such as rape victim, underage pregnancy and accidental pregnancy). abstinence work for sure but it's just impossible to tell all the kids to not have sexual intercourse! so teach them to protect themselves with contraceptive is again the best way to control teen pregnancy.
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Have to agree with you Ammo Bob. This display is the lowest of the low--an utterly disgusting involvement of a poor little 17-year old girl with a problem shared by millions of her peers all over this world.
I was sickened to the point of nearly throwing up over this. Amazing, isn't it, when principle and all sense of human decency are gone some people can still find a way to lower their standards still another notch?-
jack,
This Palin thing has really disgusted me beyond description. They fear her so much that they have stepped to the lowest levels of gutter politics I have ever seen.
This type of hatred and freaking ignorant attacks towards candidates will only bring an end of "good people" getting involved in politics, from both sides. -
I don't think people fear her as much as they are appalled...as well they should be.
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I'll share what I wrote on the other Palin speech thread:
Is this REALLY what this election is going to come down to--who gives the better speech? That's pathetic.
Well, if that's the only criteria, then Obama definitely wins. But if he gets his way with his economic plan, he'll be the ruin of America. But hey, at least he'll be able to break the news to us with eloquent and flowery words, huh? That should make it less painful.
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/palin-thank-god-for-obama#comment_567680-
Well, as obnoxious as I found Palin's tone and delivery and jokes, that alone would never stop me from supporting a politician. When it comes that, I care more about the content of the speech, and Palin's didn't have much... not to mention she blatantly lied in it. But there are certainly many more things than a single speech that I, and the majority of Americans, ultimately will base our votes on come November.
I like how Obama gets so much flak for being a great orator, as if that must mean he's nothing but talk. Can't he be a great orator AND have good ideas and policies? Isn't that possible? I'm so tired of people moaning that they don't learn anything about Obama or where he stands when they listen to him give a speech at a rally. If they really cared they would go to his website and read through the endless text about where he stands on all the issues, as well as look up his voting record.
As far as his economic plan, I'm not sure how it will affect America, or if the end it would be better or worse than McCain's. I do think there are so many factors involved in the economic health of a nation beyond the actions of a single chief executive. That said, I also think there is something inherently unjust about cutting taxes for the richest 1% of the country. And I don't really see what is wrong about trying to close corporate tax loopholes and rewarding businesses that do not ship work overseas.
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moved by author to the political forum
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ttiger,
i understand the left is threatened by palin. even if the republicans don't win this year, she is likely to be a force in the party for years to come. oh my, a mother of 5 who can actually think for herself and run a state. i thought the dems for decades supported women who want equal rights, be able to play with the men, etc? women don't have to agree with her on the issues, but they should at least be happy that a second woman is potentially going to be the vice president of the u.s. and as far as this comment you made that she is being protected from the press....can you name one outlet that is protecting her? the messiah (obama) walked on water for months and months and couldn't do no wrong. last friday when palin was announced, along with her subsequent good showing at the convention, his pool is now drained to the point where he will actually have to role up his sleeves and work hard for this campaign.... more than just being a community organizer. as we noted earlier in a thread, even hillary was right to accuse the press of giving obama a free pass. palin and her family have gotten ripped more by the liberal media in one week than obama did in a year. we know keith olbermann, brian williams, tom brokaw, chris mathews, campbell brown, etc. are not happy with palin being on the republican ticket. heck, if she's such a bad choice, then why be worried about her?-
notice im not an Obama fans and surely not a left winger!
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davet,
There are so many Republican sound byte cliches in your post, it's unbelievable: "messiah (obama)," "more than just being a community organizer," "liberal media." I guess it's easier to transcribe Rush Limbaugh's radio show than it is to formulate your own thoughts.
"oh my, a mother of 5 who can actually think for herself and run a state. i thought the dems for decades supported women who want equal rights, be able to play with the men, etc?"
Are there Democrats who are opposed to Palin because she is a woman? I wasn't aware of any, please name them with the quotes from them that indicate this.
Also, while Obama was just a community organizer, Palin was a sports reporter and beauty pageant contestant.
Thanks.
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I don't know if it was so terrible. Hate and fear-mongering work well for the Republicans. But never mind that. How about a whole slew of facts relating to Palin? markstoneman.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/the-case-against-sarah-palin/
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I read some of your post - it was well-written and I like that you include sources. I will read the rest later since right now I want to read some more stuff on this discussion board. Thanks.
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rmania,
* first off, i'm not a limbaugh supporter. there are actually some of us in the republican party who don't support limbaugh and everything he says....so hopefully you think about that possibility next time before labeling someone. i know, it is a lot for the anti-bush, anti-palin, anti-mc cain, anti-republican crowd to have to do since they are so busy getting on the 'net these days and digging for any dirt they can find on palin.
* secondly, you had a finance committee member of obama's (howard gutman) come out last week and say palin should focus her efforts on her unwed, pregnant daughter and not national office. now that's the american spirit, isn't it?
* third, the national organization of women (which should be renamed the national organization of liberal women) has come out and said palin is unfit to be VP (i know you want exact quotes, but i figured you enjoy surfing the 'net compiling anti-palin material, so five more minutes of having to visit NOW won't ruin your day). of course if it were hillary, sebelius or feinstein, i'm sure they would have no problem supporting them. i've said before and i'll say again... if women don't want to support her because of the issues, fine. but women should at least be happy that a woman can be both a good mother and serve in national office. i guess NOW figures all women are pro-choice and god forbid if you're a woman and are pro-life. as a male republican who has been pro-choice for decades, i can actually look at the candidate for the total package and not just one issue. it is a novel concept...those on the left should try it sometime.
* fourth, if god forbid obama is elected, he will actually have to make decisions this time around, unlike his days in the illinois senate. obama voted "present" dozens of times among the thousands of votes he cast in his eight years there.
* finally, as someone who has been in journalism for 20 years and much of that time as a sports reporter, yes, i would say that being a sports reporter is just as important if not more than a community organizer. we (reporters) are actually held accountable for our work.-
davet,
I didn't imply that you are a Limbaugh supporter simply because you are a Republican, but because your whole post before could have come straight out of his mouth. Whichever conservative commentator that you stole tired old cliches like "messiah Obama" from, they are still tired old cliches that add nothing.
I did not know that about Howard Glutman, but I agree he shouldn't have said that, and Obama should rebuke him. As far as NOW, well they are not part of the Obama campaign and I couldn't care less what they think. I do give credit to Obama himself for coming out to say nothing except that this issue shouldn't be part of the campaign discourse, even going so far as to say his own mother was only 18 when he was born.
Your complaint about Obama voting present is another conservative talking point that I'm sure you haven't bothered to question. First of all, he voted present 129 times out of 4,000 votes, or about 3% of the time. He voted present once every 33 votes. Wow, unfathomable. Secondly, do you have any idea why politicians use this option? It's not necessarily because they "can't decide" on an issue. Sometimes, bills were introduced with an overarching goal that Obama supported, but with a provision or two that he disagreed with or found unconstitutional, or because it lacked a needed provision. But he didn't want to appear to be against that overarching goal by just voting "no." You don't really think he was the only Illinois legislator who used this option do you? And out of 4,000 or so votes, he voted a definitive "yes" or "no" 3,850 times. Sorry, just doesn't worry me that much.
I'm not sure how seriously I can take you after that sports reporter comment. Sorry, being a sports reporter has absolutely zero relevance to being president. At least as a community organizer he worked directly with people who have problems he is theoretically supposed to address and help resolve as chief executive of the nation. And community organizers don't have accountability? What are you talking about? They need to raise money, recruit volunteers, and obviously effect some results to remain viable. Oh by the way, he was also a constitutional law professor at Harvard before getting into politics. I guess that also carries no accountability and is less relevant to the presidency than sports reporting.
Anyway, all of this is beside the point that Obama never claimed community organizing to be his major qualification, and for Palin to imply this (by comparing it to her being mayor, rather than sports reporter which she actually was at the time) was completely disingenuous, and if you yourself and other people who do not support Obama were honest, you would at least admit that much.
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Linc
Pulled this about her being the Commander in Chief for the Alaskan National Guard from your post, I'm sure it will get shot down in no time. But i thought this was really interesting.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OLtHdJ_gUk-
Here's another good read:
washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/07/tough-guv/
It explains why Lyda Green (the libs new favorite poster girl for bashing Palin) hates her too. As it turns out, Palin was pushing for the natural gas pipelines to be subsidized by the state and built by a Canadian company, rather than allow it to be controlled by Big Oil. Evidently Lyda Green thought that was a bad idea. -
csi and linc - That's all very interesting, no seriously, I read all of it. Thanks. Really great stuff.
But I noticed you didn't respond to absolutely anything in my original post. I guess you agree with all of it.
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rmania,
this was your previous comment below to me..... and then you say you were not implying i was a limbaugh supporter or sound piece???
There are so many Republican sound byte cliches in your post, it's unbelievable: "messiah (obama)," "more than just being a community organizer," "liberal media." I guess it's easier to transcribe Rush Limbaugh's radio show than it is to formulate your own thoughts.
since many of us post on different threads on here, my apologies to anyone who read this before.
i noted previously that if the dems ticket were reversed, at least you could make a case for biden being qualified.
now i know i don't have an ivy league education and i've never been a community organizer, but i think 20 years as a journalist does qualify me to at least discuss the topic. i've covered conventions, council meetings, presidential campaigns, murder trials and even sporting events. am i qualified to be the next president of the u.s.? no. am i qualified to point out others who are not qualified to be president of the u.s.? yes.
we're having a yard sale in my neighborhood two weekends from now and we need a community organizer for the event. can you give me obama's number???-
davet,
Reading comprehension doesn't appear to be your strong suit. I DID imply that you are a Limbaugh supporter, and I didn't deny this in my last post. I denied your claim that I made implied this about you simply because you are a Republican... I know not all Republicans are mouthpieces for Limbaugh... but your initial post, laden with the type of lazy tired cliches that Limbaugh constantly falls back on for lack of better argument, certainly suggested that you are. That was my initial impression based on what you actually said, not just that you're a Republican. Now do you understand?
We're getting way off base with all of this talk about journalism and ivy league educations. My point was that Palin and her supporters are being extremely disingenuous when they talk down about Obama's experience as a community organizer, as if he claims this to be his major qualification for the presidency. That was what he did BEFORE getting into politics, and if you were honest, you would admit that it is a noble endeavor.
You think community organizing just involves trivial things like yard sales? No wonder you are lambasting it so much, you just showed you have NO idea what they do. They try to motivate people to participate in their communities, and help jobless or low-income individuals find employment and confront injustices in their communities.
Again, does Obama claim this to be his main qualification? No. But keep pretending that if you don't have any better, HONEST arguments to make.
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rmania,
when you don't have anything of value to say to folks on here, you take pot shots at people. i know the left is worried because first hillary's coronation was shot down, now obama's free pass to the white house appears in jeopardy. in none of my posts directed to you did i comment on your ability to discuss politics, your 'reading comprehension' etc. if you want to come back to the table with the big kids and talk without taking cheap shots at folks, we'd be happy to have you back. in the meantime, since i'm so uneducated and have no idea what i'm talking about, i'm going to go read a book before work. i might even read one of obama's memoirs to educate myself....-
I wrote a substantial post that addressed all of the points you made in yours. Sorry if one or two lines about your reading comprehension and dishonesty made you so upset as to ignore the other 95% of what I wrote. I wouldn't have made those remarks if you didn't change and distort what I was saying to keep your straw man argument afloat.
I just don't have much patience for dishonesty.
Later.
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That's why you are you and I'm me...
(Archie Bunker)
She was hammered for the few days leading up to her speech...cut her some slack in the "obnoxious" area. I found her sarcastic wit funny and most of the time even to the point.-
I agree that the media attention given to her family issues was excessive and not relevant to her suitability to be VP.
Nevertheless, that doesn't excuse the lying and distortion that we heard from her at the convention. Sorry, I didn't find it funny at all, just sad.
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rmania,
no one is changing and distorting what you are saying. if you believe that a community organizer is a major qualification, that is your right and by all means, believe it. i don't hold that view...simple as that. there are other folks on the left who come in here and discuss things without personal shots directed at other bloggers...that's all i'm saying. don't worry, i'm a big boy and can take care of myself. some of us just get tired of the personal shots, may they be from the left or the right. i've spoken my mind on these threads before when i felt bush was wrong, etc. so i'm not some nutty right winger who is draped in the flag of their party. you and i have a simple disagreement on whether or not barack obama is qualified to be the leader of the free world. the point many on the left keeping trying to make but doesn't fly is the obama vs. palin qualifications. she is NOT running to be the president. and the argument that something may happen to mc cain from the left is getting old too. i have no ill feelings towards biden and wish him the best. the man, however, had a cerebral aneurysm years ago. so god forbid obama is elected and something happens to him. one could question whether biden is medically qualified to take over. i mean we can argue these points until pigs learn how to fly. at the end of the day, i prefer mc cain's experience over obama's...plain and simple. obama is very well spoken and i have no doubt his intentions are good. this is just not the right time nor right place for on the job training.-
Well again, I myself did not say community organizing is a major qualification... I do however not find it completely irrelevant nor should any way detract from his candidacy. The same could be said for Obama I think... he mentions it as a relevant and important part of his life, but certainly not his main qualification... that of course would be the decade+ he spent as a state senator and US senator. My original point still stands... Palin and the Republicans are being very, very disingenuous about this, and it should be condemned by everyone, Dem or Rep, the same way I would condemn Obama if in his speech he implied that Palin's sports reporting experience was her major qualification.
The experience thing we can argue all day and I'm sure neither of us would change our opinions. But I feel like most people are not as concerned about experience as they say they are. Is it just a coincidence that essentially all those who agree with Obama's political views think he has enough experience and essentially all those who don't agree think he doesn't? I don't think it is... I think the real reason most people won't vote for Obama is if they are pro-life or against his economic plan, etc... and invoking experience is just political strategy to detract from someone's candidacy you already don't support.
The way I see it, his community organizing, time as constitutional law professor, that is certainly relevant and part of the package, but then combined with over a decade of being a legislator, to me, that is sufficient to consider him for the office. After all, every single president surrounds himself with advisers who are seasoned veterans in politics, because NO president has the knowledge, experience, or time to do the job by himself. So I don't think whatever he might lack in experience (I'm sure we can at least both agree that he is certainly not totally green) will be a major liability for him. I think Obama has great judgment and intelligence, great capacity for rational thought, and respect for data and scientific studies which lends itself to realistic solutions for problems this country faces.
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What do pictures of nude beaches in some foreign country have to do with Palin's speech?
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The "community organizer" thing was the top sarcastic comment that made me cringe a bit...but although there is nothing but praise to be given to anyone chosing to be a community organizer...there is more truth to her comment than any question as to whether she should have said it or not.
Truth in the sense that there are more responsibilities and there is more intensity at a governship of a state level. That's not to take away anything from a community organizer and the tasks and intensity they have to go through.-
What truth was there to that comment? Let's break it down. What was Palin trying to say? That being a mayor is more relevant and qualifying than being a community organizer, right? But Palin I'm sure would say being mayor is her second most important qualification (second to governor), so for her remark to be fair and honest, wouldn't community organizer be Obama's first or second most important qualification? Yes... but it's not... like I said in my original post, when Palin was mayor, Obama was actually a state senator, so why didn't she compare THOSE two instead? Because she wouldn't have been able to make a "witty" and in my opinion, stupid and dishonest, joke that way.
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Quit playing the "dishonest" card...you've been hammering that all discussion as if one can really hold sarcastic remarks to some kind of honesty test. Let it go!
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You yourself are claiming that there was a deeper truth to her remark. We both know it wasn't just a joke, it was a jab at Obama that he is not as qualified as her to hold office. I'm just pointing out how it was very unfair and based on a lie - the lie that Obama thinks his community organizing is as important to his resume as being mayor is to Palin's.
When politicians take shots at each other, I do hold their remarks to an honesty test... whether they are sarcastic or not doesn't matter.
Sorry for wanting to know if a fundamental criticism of the politician I currently support has any basis in reality! -
RMania said, "Yes... but it's not... like I said in my original post, when Palin was mayor, Obama was actually a state senator, so why didn't she compare THOSE two instead?"
It would be comparing apples and oranges. She was comparing her executive responsibility to his. As a senator he had no executive responsibilities. That is his only leadership experience. Being a senator and voting "present" 130 times does not equate to running a city or state.
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rmania,
as some of my earlier posts have noted, i think obama is well spoken, has good intentions, etc. etc. in my honest opinion, i think both he and palin are not quite ready for the biggest office in the land. he has some qualifications as a senator, etc. she has some qualifications as a governor, etc. the point is that the TOP of the ticket is where republicans have the experience. if this were mc cain vs. biden, both could make a legitimate argument that they are ready to lead. one can't praise obama on and on about his experience and then just toss aside palin's time as a mayor and a governor. as i've noted before, i'm a pro-choice republican, so i certainly don't agree with palin or the majority of the party on this issue. i do, however, feel the terrorism threat and the economy are way more important issues. in those areas, i am more comfortable electing mc cain. does this country have some major economic issues facing it? absolutely! any republican who says no is dead wrong. that being said, i still rank terrorism as my top issue and i want someone in that chair who will keep me safe. not saying obama doesn't care about this country, i just don't want him learning on the job. for all the cynics who say mc cain went and got a woman because he wanted to try and get some of the hillary vote, the argument can be made that obama realized his lack of foreign policy experience was so overwhelming that he went out and got biden. the dems call that a wise and intelligent move. as for mc cain, they call his move cynical. can't have it both ways.-
I agree with you there is plenty of double standards and transparent political gamesmanship on both sides. For the record, I personally am not strongly opposed to Palin because of her relative lack of experience.
I don't like that people make Obama out to be some kind of spineless coward just because he doesn't sit there and make silly statements like "we must defeat evil!" I trust his judgment not to divert military resources away from the real targets in the "war on terror" like Bush did and so I would feel comfortable with him, and more so because he picked Biden to be by his side. And he specifically said a military option is certainly on the table when it comes to Iran. The man is no pacifist. -
Don't underestimate the power of propaganda and don't overestimate the intelligence of the average American..
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rmania,
at the end of the day, the american people will have to decide who is better qualified...obama or mc cain? i do like that obama came out and criticized those attacking palin on personal issues last week, as he should have. i would say the same if the shoes were reversed. i have been critical of the republicans in the past for letting the pro-life crowd hijack the party, just as the extremists on the left hijacked the party under gore and kerry. most americans are probably more like you and me....moderates i would guess. i will and have voted for democrats in the past if i felt they would better serve my interests. i voted for gray davis years back here in california for governor because i felt he was tougher on crime than his opponent. i lost a family friend to a vicious murder years ago, so i'm a strong death penalty supporter. as for this election, i'm looking at the entire package and feel mc cain offers me more than obama. i would agree with you that we lost our focus going into iraq and should have stayed 100 percent on the afghanistan front. where i draw the line with people on the left (not you) is when nutcases like some come on here and say that we brought 9/11/ on ourselves and that the whole islamic world hates us. that couldn't be further from the truth. the 'blame america' crowd has gotten real old in this country. at the end of the day, i think obama does have things to offer, i'm just not comfortable pulling the lever for him. if biden were the top of the ticket, i would give more of a look to the democrats at least. either way, this election will prove historic in either the first black president or first female VP in this country. for that, we should all be in agreement that it was too long in coming.
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