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Should ex-gays like gospel singer Donnie Mcclurkin be silenced?
Posted by Phoenix1962 • 11/08/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: attacked, beliefs, ex, gays, Personal, ridiculed
There are a multitude of people who say that they were once gay but for whatever reason they are no longer gay. Should theses people be ridiculed and attacked because of their personal beliefs.
User Comments
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Don't be afraid to comment. By the way I am all for gay marriage.
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If I denounce my German-Irish heritage will it simply disappear?
So... has Donnie just gone back to the closet?
bloggernista.com/2007/10/26/ex-gay-donnie-mcclurkin-is-not-so-ex-gay/
Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is a sexual orientation. People don't choose their sexual orientations. They are who they are. They may choose whether to act on their sexual orientations, but they have little or no choice about the sexual orientation itself.
www.keithboykin.com/arch/2002/11/19/confessions_of-
Should he be attack because of what he believes about his sexual orientation?
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That's a question with his obvious answer. Should anyone be literally attacked for their beliefs? No. Should every belief be questioned? Yes. Should every person be mocked when they refuse to acknowledge your criticism? Depends on your personality. -
Belief in something is not above criticism.
McClurkin is just denying his real sexual orientation (homosexuality) to sell his music to a broader audience.
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Should theses people be ridiculed and attacked because of their personal beliefs.
The way you have worded your post is concerning. No one should be under attack due to their sexual orientation or personal beliefs. That being said, this does not preclude the right of others to either believe or disbelieve the claims of being cured of homosexuality either.
I do NOT believe these claims. I do not believe that sexual orientation can be changed. They simply have a choice do have a choice when it comes to acting in accord with their sexual orientation or not. If they choose to act in accord with their sexual orientation or against it makes no difference to me. Neither choice ought to make them subject to receiving either either ridicule or praise. -
just like ted haggard. he got all fixed up. even blogged about it.
cranelegspond.blogspot.com/2007/08/354-what-ever-happened-to-ted-haggard.ht... -
Nobody is immune to criticism. Every idea should be criticized.
However, "attacked" and "silenced" are very different from "criticized."-
Some ex-gays say that they have to stay in the closet because the gay community attacks them. If we can believe that orientation is fixed can we not believe that it is changeable?
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As the so-called ex-gays are no longer hanging out in gay bars and clubs one wonders where they would experience such ridicule. We all know that if so-called ex gays are being harassed or threatened by anyone they have the same recourse under the criminal law as everyone else has, and all they need to do is to report such criminal activity to the police. If indeed there is no criminal activity, then the allegations of ridicule can be viewed as equivalent to the rumor mongering that homophobic Christians used to put them down before they allegedly became ex-gays.
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The camp that 'cures' homosexuality
At a Christian 'boot camp' in the US, those struggling to reconcile faith and sexuality are taught to overcome gayness
... The belief that homosexuality can be overcome has been fuelling controversy in the US for decades. Although research supporting SSA therapy has been discredited, “ex-gay” ministries are expanding worldwide, even in the UK, where a discreet network practises SSA therapy under the umbrella of “Christian counselling”.
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There appear to have been no complaints about the activities of any of these organisations and websites report many success stories, but there are those who claim that their involvement with other therapists has been a far-from-positive experience. Peterson Toscano spent 17 years and £20,000 in the US and UK trying to suppress his identity as a gay man. “It is a far more subtle seduction over here,” he says. Toscano claims that therapists in Britain - who he says tried to exorcise his gay demons in Kidderminster, in the West Midlands - nearly drove him to suicide. “There is no question about that. I became severely depressed and contemplated suicide on several occasions,” he says.
Toscano, who now runs the Beyond Ex-Gay support group, believes that, far from being living proof of being a changed man, Alan Chambers is simply promoting celibacy by stealth.
“You walk out on this cloud of ex-gay glory,” says Toscano, “but you end up intimate with no one, becoming more and more isolated until it's just you alone on this little ex-gay island ... so many people are hurting and living this half-life.”
“Really, what the ex-gay movement is all about is salving the conscience of the Christian leaders who don't like to be accused of homophobia,” he says. “That way they can say ‘we don't hate gays - look how we are welcoming them'.”
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4893735.ece?token=null&offse...
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It's amazing to me that some Christians are so obsessively concerned about the sex lives of others. The commandment not to judge fellow Christians seems to have slipped their notice. -
No they should not be ridiculed. I've never met anyone gay who has told me it's possible though either.
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The Church of Scientology alleges that many of its members were once gay and there are many other religions that say the same.
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Allegations like this amount to nothing but a pile of ashes. There is no hard evidence of anyone being cured of their sexual orientation. Hitler's henchmen tried many methods and none worked. These methods now being used amount to aversion therapy. Watching videos and being electro-shocked when responding to them, as well as, being burdened with guilt that comes with embracing phony psychotherapy counseling sessions based on snippets of scripture and admonitions about not pleasing God do NOT work. Embracing any fear and guilt based religion like Christianity does not lead anyone to becoming a healthy and fulfilled individual. Moreover, the suggestion that anyone needs to be cured of an inclination that is normal for them is a terrible affront.
I sincerely wish Christian homophobes, who judge other Christians would adhere to the love one another and do not judge commandments and mind their own affairs. If they did then they would lovingly embrace ALL of their brothers and sisters in Christ, as well, as those they consider to be enemies - just as they are. If they can't do that then IMO they don't appear to be true believers.
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I appreciate everyone's candor. Thank you all!
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Does he ridicule and attack lgbtq people now that he is no longer batting for their team?
BTW, where on the Kinsey scale was he, before the transformation?
As for the newest wave of straightened out evangelicals, I wonder what Lonnie Frisbee would think of them: hotforjesusformerfundie.blogspot.com/2008/09/jesus-died-of-aids-for-your-si...-
According to a book he wrote a few years ago, he was as gay as a gay person could be.
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@Phoenix1962
I'm sure there will be a new book soon enough. -
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Are there any ex-blue-as-my-favorite-color camps?
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Though we may not all choose to handle our lives in the same manner, we should always be allowed the free speech to discuss it. If you silence what you do not believe; you may be silenced yourself later.-
Wise words!
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With intense enough conditioning, any human inclination can be altered. Does that make it right, or desirable, or healthy? Perhaps not. But the idea that it's impossible is ridiculous. It happens every day in small ways--we "acquire" tastes for things we didn't naturally like; we come to like songs we initially didn't care for as the result of frequent exposure. Remember Patty Hearst? Know any victims of violent rape who have been turned off of sex completely? Any formerly kind and gentle men turned into killers in the throes of war who remained hardened and indifferent to human life? Did A Clockwork Orange seem like science fiction to you? Trauma and/or conditioning change human "orientations" in a thousand different ways every day. The assumption that sexual orientation is the ONE human characteristic so deeply rooted that it can't be altered, even when instincts on which our very survival depends (like eating) can be is quite a stretch.-
[But the idea that it's impossible is ridiculous.]
However, there are significant physiological differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals. A few psychiatrist meetings won't overcome those. -
In 1993, geneticist Dean Hamer of the National Cancer Institute released a study that claimed to have found a genetic component to some instances of male homosexuality. That is very different from saying that he found a gene that inevitably determines that a man will be homosexual. Hamer never claimed to have done that.
He studied 40 pairs of brothers who were homosexual, and hypothesized that a certain genetic marker on the X chromosome was at least partially responsible for their homosexuality. Since men have an X and a Y chromosome, and they inherit their X chromosome from their mothers, Hamer theorized that the mother may be the carrier of the gene determining homosexuality in their sons. It would not manifest in the mothers' lives, but they would pass that gene on to their sons.
Hamer found that of the families he interviewed that had more than one son who was homosexual, a significantly larger number had a maternal uncle or a maternal aunt's son who was also homosexual than showed a paternal linkage. This would suggest a maternal linkage for male homosexuality in some cases. Finding homosexual brothers who had homosexual maternal uncles would indicate that somewhere along the mother's family line, the gene determining male homosexuality was most likely present. This type of study is known as a gene "linkage study."
Citation: D.H. Hamer, et al., "A Linkage Between DNA Markers on the X Chromosome and Male Sexual Orientation," Science 261 (1993): 321-327
Three distinct biological fields are involved in the most recent work on sexual orientation: neuroanatomy, psychoendocrinology, and genetics. Among these three fields, more and more evidence for a biological determinant of homosexuality is surfacing. It is predicted that a biological substrate for sexual orientation will be found within the next ten years.
Genetic studies such as one done by Bailey and Pillard have shown a 52% concordance rate of homosexuality in monozygotic twins. This suggests that homosexuality is highly attributable to genetics. These findings as well as those of LeVay's (although debatable) are setting the groundwork for a biological cause of homosexuality. They are the key to unlocking the mystery of sexuality and are proving more than ever that brain does equal behavior.
www.pbs.org/wg...hows/assault/genetics/nyreview.html
www.theatlantic.com/issues/97jun/burr2.htm
www.press.jhu...nals/substance/v029/29.1wilson.html
www.utexas.edu/courses/bio301c/Topics/Gay/Text.html
www.owlnet.rice.edu/~psyc362/lectures/lec14/tsld001.htm
www.jneurosci.org/
members.aol.com_ht_a/slevay/index.html
www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/homotheo.html
www.utexas.edu/news/2000/07/12/nr_brain/
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I didn't know that! Off to Google this..... -
In my opinion. YES! If you were 'healed' by god/gospel/Priest and magically turned straight you are a nutcase and I prefer that you shut up!-
Is that a nice thing to say?
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No one should ever be ridiculed.-
Trudat!
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