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Should Gloria Arroyo resign?
Posted by kebelle • 2/25/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: General Discussion, international, politics, poverty, social issues
Many Filipinos lost their confidence with the president of the Philippines Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo. This lost of confidence was due to corruption, dishonesty, cheating, murders, and widespread poverty. What is your opinion? Should Mrs. Arroyo resign or be impeached?
User Comments
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Just don't vote for her in the next election. There have not been any verifiable evidence of her wrongdoings. Almost every president of the Philippines has been accused of some sort of corruption. We need to look at facts and not rhetorics. Arroyo is known to have quite a few foes during her reign.
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Yes, you have to read the facts-- visit inquirer.net for more info.
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Answer to the question: NO.
Why? I would prefer Arroyo over any of her opponents. I believe Arroyo did those things so that her opponents, who are even WORSE, won't have the opportunity to take advantage of the Filipinos.
In effect Arroyo did those to save the country. Her opponents would do those things to further give themselves power.
Would you want a movie actor to be a president? I sure hell don't want that! -
Wow, I'm surprised that this topic has been raised here.
Personally, I'm tired of "People Power". Aquino and Arroyo both came to power through this way and I'm not expecting another "Juan" to rise to power through the same path. Sure, "Edsa 1 and 2" has redefined our understanding of democracy but it has gone too far. I hope that the Filipino people let the rule of law take its course.
I don't tolerate corruption, and if Arroyo is guilty let it be proven first. Where's the assumption of innocence if even before the investigation has ended, the Filipino people gave their verdicts already. You might argue that the judicial system is not credible and perhaps bias. You've got reasons to feel that way but come to think about the verdict given to Estrada. That should give you some hope that our judical system is still functioning well. Besides, the attention of the people and the media to the on-going hearing are helpful factors that will ensure a reliable investigation.
What's happening to the Phils is really depressing... I just hope it's not too late for us to recover politically, economically and socially. And we can't do this through another people power. -
Get rid of Gloria? Why? Corruption is systemic in The Philippines. Even if she was the most honest president, corruption is prevalent well below her level. I don't think it will change anything.
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I agree with you waletts, it is just that more and more corruptions are exposed during GMA's reign. And whoever will take the next presidency, corruption is still the name of the game. All of these senate investigations are nothing but just that, investigations. No persons involved were jailed or prosecuted. Filipinos are just seeing this as a mere 'telenovela'.
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So, are you saying that it is better to tolerate her because, well -- everybody cheats anyway?
It's like saying that it's okay for someone to kill someone else because well, he'd be dead anyway!
That is just sad. Thinking that it's okay for someone to do all those atrocious things because there is no other choice but her.
If you have been constantly updated with the political ongoings, you would form a relatively intelligent opinion about whether she's guilty or not.
if you live in a place where poverty smacks you in the face, I hardly doubt if you can shrug off corruption.
It's okay to be so dismissive when you do not get hungry.
It's not about whether there is someone else better but choosing not to tolerate injustice and corruption.
Well, that's just my two cents worth.-
The question is not whether or not to tolerate Arroyo. The question is how to rid The Philippines of corruption so as to build a better country.
Changing leader at present is like swapping chairs on The Titanic.
Did ousting Estrada make any difference? No it did not. Every leader rants about tackling corruption. Nothing gets done.
Maybe it would help if they tackled corruption from the ground up instead of blaming Arroyo. It annoys me when all the blame is passed on to one individual.
Unless they find a way you will continue to have the familiar pattern of every Filipino who can get out of The Philippines, continuing to do so.
“If you have been constantly updated with the political ongoings, you would form a relatively intelligent opinion about whether she's guilty or not.”
I still haven’t heard anything from you about how you would tackle corruption if you had power.
Your suggestion of getting rid of her to show a stand against injustice would serve only to weaken further the standing of The Philippine econmy.
All you can do is vote for somebody else in the next election. -
Wallets,
Did you read anything in my comment about ousting her? No. I did not say that. I was commenting on my dismay at how people would rather have her sitting there because they think they cannot do any better.
yes, you are right. Voting in the next election is a good option. However, do you mean that we have to wait until 2010?
I am not blaming poverty or corruption on one person, but I am in outrage because my President is corrupt. And I would rather that she gracefully step down and allow a snap election to happen. That's where your suggestion comes in. That's when people should exercise their constitutional right to vote, but I do not think that we should still allow her to sit on her pretty ass for another three years and rob us off of our money.
Why are you pro-admin anyway?
Nakakuha ka din ba ng P500,000? Naka-envelope or brown bag? Galing ba sa poultry?
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Denial of political realities is tantamount to numbness. Over rationalization and justification of political issues and of the status quo send the nation to perils. This is not that we have to leave things that way because we are in a cycle of corruption. To topple a president is more humane than permitting a politics of impunity. The whole nation should rise to tell those who hold power to their face that they are not above the law. The question here is not whose qualified to lead or whose not? It's not the issue of who will corrupt next after the ouster of Arroyo; it's a matter of preserving the lives of the people. It's about our voices to be heard. It's about our passion for life. It's all about our place in human history that once again, we have to fight politics of impunity. It's about our own way of writing history than allowing ourselves to be trampled down by those who are in power. It's all about our role in Philippine history that somehow we oppose oppressive and dishonest rule. We have to express our protest. CBCP is permitting a politics of impunity and dishonesty by simply calling the faithfuls to prayer as well as the PCEC. We should not become jaded. We should open our eyes to see the suffering people, and use our political will to end up corruption and poverty. Enough of economy talks that is not stable anyway. What is GDP when people are hungry? What we need is political reform!
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Will they play that Laura Brannigan song "Gloria" if she does? I honestly don't have any information or opinion on this matter, but you know me....I haven't met a thread that I couldn't interject some ridiculous comment on.
"Gloria, Gloria, I got your number, Gloria." -
Please join us on Friday at Ayala Ave. in Makati to express our protest to the politics of fear, intimidation, impunity and dishonesty. You may accuse me of being a nonsense reactionary activist; but I am not. I am simply a concerned citizen who is trying to make sense with life in the Philippines. I still believe that we can do great things. Of course I will not outline the things to do to have a better politics, that's the job of our leaders who are in power. But what I have is the right to protest for the interest of the people.
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Hi Kebelle
I am curious to know what the press in the Philippines reports. Are they supportive of the government of Arroyo or not? Many times people are influenced by what they hear or read in the news. In this country a large part of the population takes what they hear and believes it to be true without question or further analysis. Ignorance manages to control people and many times that is exactly what the higher ups want. I think it is true of all nations. Of course, I cannot help but constantly question everything, so I exempt myself from the masses I refer to above. -
Those who are calling for protest are people from the academe--university students, professors, writers and thinkers. The call to protest is not spearheaded by ambitious politicians, but by people who still have hope that Philippines will be still a better place to live. Have you read my latest post? For more insights about Philippine politics please visit inquirer.net
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Gloria Arroyo must resign if she has any shred of decency left in her wicked soul, unfortunately she cannot and will not resign knowing she will be liable for all the long list of criminal acts attributed to her administration together with her minions.
Her crime starts at the bogus PP2 that is nothing but a power grab to shift the proceeds & control of Jueteng to her hometown under the "able" leadership of her Kumpadre Bong and wife to former coconut vendor turned millionaire and ex PB member.
I will not bore people in this thread on the long list of crimes perpetrated by this illigitimate administration but I will implore readers to do their own research and dig for the truth for the sake of our dignity as a people.
pedestrianobserver.blogspot.com -
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Join the Gloria RESIGN! Blogswarm go to pedestrianobserver.blogspot.com/2008/02/join-gloria-resign-blogswarm.html
grab the image and don't pay attention to the dates as this blogswarm is now an ongoing activity until the raging scandal of GMA's administration is resolved. A date will be set from time to time where bloggers joining the blogswarm can blog at the same time to send a clear message that we have enough of the lies, deceit and criminal institutionalized corruption at the top. -
How do Filipino people spell out democracy? Simple... PEOPLE POWER!
How do Filipino people get rid of the problem in the Government? Again, it's simple... PEOPLE POWER! (Let's kick some ass!)
What has PEOPLE POWER done to solved the real problem of the Philippines? Nothing really. Just made things more chaotic. Just made the economy worse. Just placed "the poor people" at a worse condition. It creates political superheroes (At least to my knowledge, Arroyo is one of them.)! It seems the Filipino people are enjoying it. It has become a vicious cycle... where PEOPLE POWER thought to be the solution has now become part of the problem.
Should we tolerate Corruption? DEFINITELY NOT!
Then why NOT join the PEOPLE POWER? Well, can't we do this under the due process of law? Believe me, it'll be much better. Less damaging to our economy.
But I want to show that I'm vehemently against Corruption! Do you really need to have a "road show" to tell everyone you're against it?
Hey, it's my right! It's the essence of DEMOCRAZY... (Opps.. Democracy I meant).
Okay. Your Right it is. So, when are you going to stop?
Are you kidding me? It's not going to end until corruption is totally eradicated! Besides, I love PEOPLE POWER. I see and meet prominent people, you know. PEOPLE POWER Rocks!
Do you think corruption will ever come to an end? I hope not. I LOVE PEOPLE POWER. It's the way to go, you know.
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In a society where corruption is institutionalized all the way to the top and the leaders in power use the state apparatuses to protect and perpetuate themselves in power, the end result is perversion of the justice system.
They leave people with no recourse but to go out of the street to express their outrage and discontent, you take that away and you open the door to a violent upheaval that has more dire consequences. -
Will a people power wipe out the INSTITUTIONALIZED corruption in the Philippines? Come on, it's been done several times and yet THE INSTITUTIONALIZED corruption that you mention hasn't been abated. In fact, it has gotten worse. You assume as though people power is a panacea to all the problems of our country. IT IS NOT!
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if we'll keep on protesting, the more we will suffer... why not just stay in put in our work and do what is best for this country. if all people will unite... then... you continue...
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Markph, okay, so we don't protest. Are you saying we should just tolerate whatever the government is saying and just leave it at that until her term ends on 2010. That is, if she does not succeed in her plans to change the constitution. God Forbid.
You suggest that we unite -- to do what? There is a call to change the social system because corruption is rooted down to the basic social system. Now, that's quite easy to say but how do you do that? And while we're all trying to change ourselves, we'll just have to tolerate the corruption in the government until oh, let's see 2010?
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Bloggingmix,
It's like you are saying that you expect that the People Power is a way to cure the ailments of this government. It's not! And I do not believe that that's what these Pro-People Power believe as well.
People Power is just the name for the act of the people to gather to VOICE OUT THEIR GRIEVANCES against the government. This is constitutionally protected. It's the people's right to say, "Hey! You're crapping on us!"
What Pedestrian Observer is saying is that if you remove the right of the people to voice out their grievances to the government, where does that leave us? I don't see anything in his statement that says that he thinks people power "is the panacea to all the problems of our country"-
Sorry I have not been posting or this discussion. I am still counting the money Gloria gave me in that brown paper bag.
Shall I leave it in pesos or change it to US Dollars?
Actually Buko, I am not a Pinoy and I had to get the Tagalog translated.
I am just a frequent visitor to The PI and have always been intrigued with the issues facing Filipinos.
I will try and post something more intelligent soon -
So what happens next after you voice out your grievances? It's your right and I've got nothing against it. It's just that the consequences of your actions far more outweighs the benefits.
You are not answering my question. WILL PEOPLE POWER WIPE OUT THE CORRUPTION, which we ALL CONCEDE to have been INSTITUTIONALIZED?
The only way you can persuade me to believe in your cause is when you prove to me that PEOPLE POWER has done anything to reduce "the institutionalized" corruption or will it ever do so if you push for another one. -
Bloggingmix,
why do you need to be persuaded? I see no reason to persuade people because it is only you and how you percieve reality that will determine how you interpret the world around you.
Since you don't believe in peaceful assembly to express peoples grievance how do you propose we tackle the issue of institutionalized corruption?
Here's an article from one of my team mates at POGB:
pedestrianobserver.blogspot.com/2008/03/today-is-precious-space-in-time-tha... -
I see no reason why we shouldn't express public outrage. The responsibility is actually not much of those who hold power, but on us who allowed ourselves to be trampled as a nation by corrupt political leaders. We have not become vigilant enough to provide checks and balances of the state. The people should continue to protest even in eternity as long as there is violation of rights and mismanagement of the country's resources.
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Bloggingmix,
Are you saying that since you think it will not wipe out the corruption that we should let things be? Let them continue with whatever their doing and let us sit in our merry silent ways.
You see when you voice out the grievances, you in effect inform those that are in power that you do not tolerate corruption. By letting people know that you are standing up for what is right, you give "change" a chance -- no matter how small chance it is. You should not blame People Power. It is the act that revolutionized and changed the course of our history. It is our responsibility to continue with the course of revolutionizing our system starting with our own selves. We do not have to gather to change the system. We do it as we go on with our lives AFTER the people power.
You asked, what happens after People Power? Will this change the institutionalized corruption? I cannot lie. Perhaps it could or perhaps not. But at least we were able to put in center the people's recognition and adamant refusal to tolerate corruption seeding from the the crux of this government. You would in effect or perhaps force a President to resign from her seat, for people to once again recognize that they have an obligation to their country, and start a clean slate.
How could you change the "institutionalized corruption" now if you would tolerate her presence for a few more years?
Perhaps, you'd asked again, "how do you propose to change the corruption?"
You can direct that question to yourself. It's not just my opinion that counts. It's everyone's opinion including yours.
I do not think that you should be persuaded. It is up to you to think things through for yourself. In the same way, you cannot persuade people like Kebelle or Pedestrian Observer. They have seen a lot of suffering and poverty that the outrage emanating from them is just way to stubborn to be shaken off easily.
I, myself, would have preferred the more constitutionally mandated ways of removing a President. Of course, we can't just do away with her or leave her permanently impaired (unfortunately...hehe). The best option would have been to m impeach her. Unfortunately, the articles of impeachment should pass first in the House of Rep. I don't think the likes of the Speaker or Congressman Villafuerte would allow that to happen. So, yes. The only recourse is to "nag" her to resign.
Peace.
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What the country needs is a good leader who cares about the future of filipino people. Not someone who is leaching the system. I will nominate my hub :)) but then again he can't run for president in other country.
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Ok Pinoys. Let’s be realistic. You will not succeed in stamping out corruption by changing one corrupt administration for another.
I am trying to use some lateral thinking.
Why focus on the top hierarchy when corruption can be seen so easily in the lower echelons?
When do pretexts of being business minded give way to the realization that each one of us plays out his part in the grand scheme of corruption?
When does a bible reading Pinoy who is in a privileged position stop kidding himself into believing that god would understand he is only trying to survive?
What about when a schoolteacher complains about the administration but at the same time accepts bribes to give good marks?
What about when a policeman pulls up a taxi driver for a farcical on the spot fine and still wears his uniform with pride?
It is up to every single person to disentangle himself from the web before pointing the finger.
Corruption is only relative to positioning of power. The only difference between the above examples and The Philippine administration is the price.
Until Filipinos can resist the lure of ill-gotten rewards, even in the face of poverty, there will never ever be a better Philippines.-
That's why we have to rage against any form of corruption no matter how small. We should not fail to critique ourselves and rage against our own selves. Instead of being jaded that Philippines will never become better, let us critique this assumption. I still believe in the good within us. But I also still continue to call the public, that when darkness is overpowering this country, to "rage against the dying of the light."
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I am not from The Philippines but I visit there reguarly and I have friends who live there. I have experienced cerain experiences and I have had the experiences of others related to me by my friends. I am not claiming to be an expert but it is easy to keep abreast of anything you want in the digital age.
Let me make something clear. I like The Philippines and have respect for the majority of Filipinos.
This business about not being able to judge if you are not from there?
Have I hit a sore spot somewhere?
This happens when comments get too close to the truth.
It is just as easy for me to claim that I can be a more impartial because I see things objectively.
The examples I used in the previous post are vignettes of what we have been discussing. Being dismissive of my comments only suggests denial.-
You seem to be passionate about this discussion. You have friends. You have been here. But have you ever had experience hunger? Do you have neighbors that are waiting to die from brain tumor because they do not money for treatment? Does your 4-year-old neighbor go around selling "balisoso" just to help his family? Have you ever experienced sleepless nights where you have to get up just to check if the flood has entered your house?
Where do you stay whenever you come here? Are your friends squatters?
These people -- we, are feeling the brunt of the government's corruption. Do you know that there are millions of dollars that have been corrupted by this government? We are paying for it. Not you. Think of what those millions of dollars could have done for my 4-year-old neighbor, or my neighbor with brain tumor. The other day, another neighbor died of tuberculosis. The other night, two neighbors stabbed each other because of arguments over plants, the other one stealing off the other person's plants so the former could sell it in the market in order to feed his children.
No, I doubt it if you know what really is like here. And you could form your objective judgments because you don't know what it is like here. You wouldn't know that unless you've experienced poverty and hunger here first hand.
My family went through the same hell hole. I know how it's like.
We were not dismissing your comment because we were in denial. We just know that you wouldn't understand because you just do not know how it's like.
Have you read Kebelle's blog? This person goes around all over the Philippines, experiencing poverty first hand, witnessing it first hand. That is why he is passionate about this. This is why we both were in agreement that it is just difficult making someone understand when he is not here.
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We were not dismissing your comment because we were in denial. We just know that you wouldn't understand because you just do not know how it's like.”
Who said I don't understand? I don't have to stick my hand in the fire to know it burns.
I am trying to deal with the issue of how to weed out all the crap that has crippled The Philippines in the last 30 years. You are talking about the level of poverty that I have not ever experienced. Yes that is true.
What is the subtext of this?
What are you really saying?
Are you telling me that lower level corruption can be condoned?
My point was that people who are involved in lower level corruption are supporting and feeding off the president and her cabinet. They create a reliable chain of control from the top to the bottom.
They need to purge themselves of corruptive practices too. It’s not just the Arroyo admin and her cabinet.
Endemic corruptive practices that proliferate at low levels need to be dealt with.
If you can’t disentangle corruption at all levels then there will always be the option of buying your way into a position with 200 peso votes.
BukoPie, I know it is not easy, but those who benefit from corruption at any level are part of the problem not part of the solution.
If I am wrong then I want to know how to prevent any alternative to Arroyo doing exactly the same thing as all recent administrations.
Sorry about my textbook oversimplifications but I can't think of any better way unless you condone mass political assassinations.-
Yes, this is what they call the institutionalized corruption. I am not saying that when you remove the President, you will in effect remove corruption. No. corruption is in this country is too deeply rooted for it to be removed overnight.
But that doesn't mean that since the corruption is in the lower level as well that we should not take actions against the President -- her corruption is flagrant and totally abusive. She doesn't even stop there. Thousands are being reportedly killed -- all these people are notably activists and reporters. Even businessmen who speak up against the President are being threatened of BIR Inspection. Geeze! They are even threatening the Church of taxes if the bishops and priests do not shut up. Can you imagine the sheer atrocity?
I recognized the lower level corruption, but I am giving emphasis on the need to remove the President. In the first place, she is not even a legitimate one. She cheated on the 2004 Elections. I know because I was smacked right in the middle of that election. I was assigned in a big town here to guard votes and I witnessed the oh-so-obvious cheating.
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I read Kebelle's blog and now I feel depressed. I contributed to this thread because Pinoy culture, politics and " Tsmis" that reaches my ears fascinates me.
At this stage I am bowing out of this discussion. I am receiving some flak from a couple of dear Filipino friends. It seems they find my comments totally out of line for a foreigner.
To be frank it is not worth losing friendships over.
Good luck and god bless you all.-
Walletss,
It was nice of you to contribute your thoughts though. They were provoking thoughts. They made me contemplate more on my beliefs.
Hey! I know you didn't mean anything by your comments. I also agree "to some extent" about your post on "being stucked between two obese individuals". However, I hardly doubt it if they could find a way to contain their size within their space.
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wallets,
i can understand the vicious cycle you are referring to and this has always been the case in the philippines, replacing a corrupt leader with another equally if not more corrupt leader seems to be the case as seen in the degeneration of the scandalous corrupt gloria arroyo's administration. the people will just have to be more vigilant and demand accountability and responsibility from the leaders, after all they are servants of the people.
why do you think the culture of corruption is so endemic in Philippine society? is it because of poverty? is it a filipino culture?
while ridding the nation of corruption is every individual citizens responsibility, the bulk of responsibility falls on the ruling minority elite. The people running the country needs strong political will to rid the nation of corruption, unfortunately they don't have the political will as they are so corrupt to the core. now, why are they so corrupt to the core to a point that they have institutionalized corruption all the way to the top?
to understand why our political leaders are corrupt one only has to look at the fraudulent prone electoral process tilted to favor those that controls 90% of the nations wealth because election in the philippines sadly is still determined by whoever has more guns, goons and gold. the political system of equal representation as is the case in a democracy has never prospered because the system does not allow a level political playing field for true representatives of the people to win a seat in the government.
indeed there is no guarantee that the people who will replace gloria arroyo will not be equally corrupt or worse but in the same manner when will people express their outrage on the plundering and pillaging leaders? mind you, people power is embodied in the philippine constitution and until the leaders of the nation shape up they will have to live with it until we rid the nation of corruption.
here are some articles that may help in understanding the political system in the philippines:
pedestrianobserver.blogspot.com/2008/02/sins-of-conjugal-thieves-from-pasig...
pedestrianobserver.blogspot.com/2007/03/conclusion-to-legislative-office-bi...
pedestrianobserver.blogspot.com/2007/03/we-overseas-filipinos-worldwide-urg... -
“Why do you think the culture of corruption is so endemic in Philippine society? Is it because of poverty? Is it a Filipino culture?”
The culture of corruption is strong in other Asian countries not just The Philippines.
The cruel reality is that even though corruption is prevalent in countries such as Thailand and Vietnam, their economies and standards of living are advancing at a rapid rate.
The Philippines is not faring well under the same constraints.
The Marcos era has passed and yet somehow the people have been duped into falling once again for similar models. Estrada has come and gone. He is now free.
It seems Arroyo did a tradeoff with him for her power grab.
It still amazes me that Imelda Marcos is free.
The world outside The Philippines does not comprehend how a wicked and unrepentant first lady can be a free person after all that has transpired.
Poverty will always breed some degree of corruption. The only way to stem corruption at least among the lesser power brokers is to improve social resources.
This can’t be done if there is no money for social welfare and a turnaround is not going to happen any time soon.
There will have to come a point when revisionists see PP1 and PP2 as failures.
The way things are deteriorating PP3 is a forgone conclusion.
PP3 must see a complete restructuring of the administration. It must breed transparency and accountability.
No ifs and no buts.-
Walletss,
It's amazing how you know so much of the Philippines. Are you really sure you're not a Filipino?
Now, this post does not offend. This is what I call "hitting the bulls eye".
you said, "This can’t be done if there is no money for social welfare and a turnaround is not going to happen any time soon"
Can you imagine the difference those billions of dollars pocketed could have made on people's lives? This is why there is such a great outrage over all these government scams. More and more bloated budget programs are coming out.
You also said, "The way things are deteriorating PP3 is a forgone conclusion."
I beg to differ. As much as I want PP3 to happen in order to force the President to resign. I believe she is ruthless and she squelches attempts and threatens those who dare. And frankly, people are just tired. This is sad but true. In my most honest moment, I think that it might take someone's death to rise the Filipinos from their stupor. Another Benigno Aquino sacrificed.
You'd make a darn good political analyst by the way.
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