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Should runner step down? Was it fair?
Posted by AngieA • 9/13/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: 800 meter race, caster semenya, fair?, hermaphrodite, male or female
Caster Semenya , who won the 800 meter race in the IAAF World Track & Field Championships in Berlin last month. Flew past the other contestants, and now its been revealed that she is a hermaphrodite, so she now has pulled back from racing in South Africa.
Clearly she’s a star athlete, what do you think they should do about letting her participate in future races?
And what are your thoughts about taking her gold medal back?
Should they?
Why or why not?
Here’s more on the story
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYisxBjYMC8
Watch the race
www.vibe.com/mt/2009/09/runner-caster-semenya-drops-out-of-race-after-tests...
User Comments
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This sort of thing also happened in a Filipino athlete in 1996 : www.nytimes.com/1996/02/22/nyregion/chronicle-062901.html -
I don't think they should take the medal back. This whole event is already very humiliating for her. She was raised as a girl, and therefore considers herself a woman. I mean, she had to make a choice. After all, she can't run both the men's and women's races.
She doesn't have ovaries or a womb, so I have to say that I think she's more of a man than a woman. But her parents made the gender decision for her, so it's not her fault.
She must already feel very confused about her gender and I really feel sorry for her. Maybe they should just let it be and stop making a spectacle out of her.-
Seconded, it's a very emotive issue, also she's got her career at stake. -
I agree with you 100%.
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I think she should be allowed to keep the medal she already won, I also think SHE'S A MAN BABY... YEAH! - Did we really need a test to tell us? So if she wants to keep competing competitively she should do it against the other guys, I hate living in a world where we tell people they can be a woman because that's how they feel on the inside... No... You will always be a man who wants to be a woman, and if that's for you than fine, just don't confuse the two.-
She is a hermaphrodite, which doesn't make her 100% a man as she also has a vagina. Although I do think she's more of a man than a woman (more testosterone dominance). However, her parents raised her as a girl, so can you blame the poor woman-man?
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But she doesn't have a penis.
She CANNOT function as a male. She has TESTES only - she doesn't have the appendage to work like a male.
Her only option was to be a female.
She cannot procreate - but the only kind of NATURAL sex she can participate in is AS A FEMALE - therefore she didn't have much option.
She's a female with A LOTTA testosterone...
Poor thing - probably has to shave every hour on the hour. -
No, I don't blame Semenya at all. That's why I think she should keep her medal, she won it fair and square. And I didn't mean she was a man wanting to be a woman, I was really refering to people who have sex changes then claim to be that gender. I do not think it is fair to other women she competes with, because of her testosterone level. And what happens when she starts breaking world records?
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Then she wins world records.
Fair?
Why not?
She's a woman.
Plain and simple. The other women CAN get testosterone if they want it - it isn't a banned substance.
She is working with what she has - and it is fair.
I mean - you cannot exclude her for having exceptional talent - just because she was born that way - no more than you would exclude a TALL man from playing basketball.... It just wouldn't be fair.
She has an advantage - YES - but so do many other athletes - superior skill - superior abilities - she just happens to be MORE powerful - FASTER - genetically...
And you cannot stop her because she is that way naturally - really can you? -
"Plain and simple. The other women CAN get testosterone if they want it - it isn't a banned substance."
If the other women can get testosterone than I'm fine with it, are you sure it's not banned, and even illegal for the other women to take steroids? -
No - not positive - I haven't looked at each sports association rules - but know that part of some people require testosterone medically - and should not be blacklisted because of it.
Like any natural substance hormone....
I dunno let me go look it up.
OK - looks like testosterone in UNNATURAL AMOUNTS WOULD be illegal.
So - as long as they are in natural amounts that would be found in that particular person's body - then it would not be illegal.
So in her case is NOT illegal..
Other women may or may not have varying levels of testosterone - based on their genetic makeup - and it is extremely difficult to test - as each person has varying levels.
Hmmmmm...
facial hair on women is a good clue that they have more testosterone - or have had chemical chemotherapy...
However - it's hard to detect - unless they are using nadrolone - or something black marketed - as testosterone is only available for medical reasons. -
I thought that's why this all came about after she won I thought they gave her a blood test for steroids (testosterone) and their suspicions were raised because hers was at a man's level.
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Exactly - but since her body produces testosterone due to the fact that she has testes - then it would be considered normal for her genetic makeup - and they should back out - back off... And this should have NEVER become published.
Do you realize what Africans will do to this woman when she goes home?
She will probably be raped and murdered unless she is protected. -
I'm not for her getting raped or murdered at all. And your right it should have been kept private, I will not disagree there at all. I say we give her a pack of mentos. I can see it now... She wins the big race, someone chides her for having berries, she holds up the mentos pack and eats one, everyone laughs, and she gets a medal. Then she can laugh all the way to the bank. What a happy ending. - Sorry, I can only be serious for so long, it's in my contract.
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Oh my gosh, what a horrible thought WW, let's hope nothing like that happens to her. I was also thinking that she's already gone threw so much with all of this going public and can only imagine how she must feel. I am sure she no longer feels victorious but more like shame and embarrassment. They have already said that her father has been crying since this all happened and I am sure he also feels some kind of guilt when it really wasn't anyone's fault.
As far as the other runners such as "Jennifer Meadows" who also worked so hard and came in 2nd, I think they should consider giving her a gold meddle as well as it wasn't fair to her either and she would of won if Caster wouldn't of been in the race. Just saying I wish they would consider this instead of even bring up taking Caster's gold away. Why not have them both gold?
As far as having Caster compete in the other races, I don't think she's going to want to race anyway after all of this, so they should just leave it alone.
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I think it's a terrible position for her to be in, but I also think that if her body shape/size and chemistry should make the decision on which sets of races she runs, rather than emotion. If she's physically male except for her genitalia then is it fair for her to compete against women? (For the other women, that is, as I don't think there's a "fair" answer for her. And if they take this medal, do they take previous ones?) -
Oh my gosh.
This poor child.
I mean - she was born with both genders - parents CHOSE which gender she would become - and that should be THAT.
NOTHING else should matter at this point. SHE has the right to be which gender she chooses - and the decision is solely that of the parents at the time of birth until she is an adult - and then can choose for herself.
The indiscrimination of the media is outrageous and should be called upon.
She is a star athlete - and her sexual reproductive organs should NOT be the center of controversy.
IT would be different IF she were born ONLY a male - and ONLY had male parts... And then ran as a woman.
But because SHE IS a woman in part - then she chose to be a woman growing up - THEN SHE IS A WOMAN.
PERIOD.
This disgusts me and makes me feel like the world has forgotten human beings - but is only concerned about WHO IS BETTER - who is going to win - and WHO is going to get the money.
It's another outrageous situation.
She should be allowed to keep her medal and to continue running - and continue winning.
She should be given severe apologies - and be compensated by Multi Millions of Dollars... Not just 10 or 20 million but we're talking 200 or more...
This has ruined her career - her life - no matter where she goes - EVERYONE will know her private sexuality.
Regardless of what you may think - this is a HUMAN being who was born with both parts.
She was raised a girl - and WILL ALWAYS BE A GIRL.
She does NOT have a penis. She has testicals...
She has a vagina - but no womb or ovaries...
She is BOTH - but she has chosen to be raised a female.
So - she is a FEMALE.
The media is disgusting for reporting this - and her doctors should be kicked out of practice for breaking the patient privacy.
I am sick of human beings who are like this.
Just sick of them.
The should all be put in an airlock and put out into space - and the airlock opened. -
I think she should be accepted as a woman, although I can understood why that might upset athletes who have to compete against her.-
Bravo - exactly.
Just like people get upset in basketball when someone is unusually tall...
It's harder to go up against them!
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If she won the gold in Female Boxing, what would the opinions be then.
(I know - no female Olympic boxing, just an example)
I'm sure they would be saying that a man beat up a girl.
It's a rough hard place to be stuck in. Personally, if you know you have a issue, why expose yourself to be taken to the task of being honest.-
She's still a woman - no matter whether she has man like abilities - she does not have a penis...
Sorry - shes just a very strong - testosterone laden female.
Gotta suck to be her...
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Not literally... LOL
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If she is woman, than there is no issue. They should stop whining and let her keep her medal.
www.google.com/health/ref/Intersex -
@WW:Do you realize what Africans will do to this woman when she goes home?...She will probably be raped and murdered unless she is protected.
I really take exception to this comment!
First of all, she is South African and South Africa is more a first world country than third world.
Secondly, she has already come home. Last week, one of our local weekly magazines featured her on the cover where they did a make over and had her modeling a lot of glamorous clothes...she looked terrific.
Third, South Africa is very proud of her and is generally upset about the furor over her winning.
And finally, South Africa is a country that, when it comes to human rights, is not only way ahead of the rest of Africa, it is even ahead of the US in some regards: the equality of women is written into the Constitution, gay marriage is legal, there is no death penalty, and gay, intersexed and transgendered people cannot legally be discriminated against.
The fact that she comes from Africa does not automatically mean she is from a dark and ignorant place.
I'm surprised at you, WW...and disappointed.-
Ay - my fault - I did believe she was from AFRICA and not South Africa.
However, even so, the US is given the view that SA is also very violent against women and especially gay women based on news and articles that we read... Which of course - as we all know what we see - may not always be the truth:
www.iol.co.za/index.php?art_id=nw20090902093142649C654405
allafrica.com/stories/200908250343.html
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/27/world/main1936878.shtml
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa
So in just those few articles - we are led to believe that South Africa has become extremely violent w/ apartheid issues.
I'm sorry if I'm wrong - but we're led to believe that and since I've never been there I can't say for sure that it is not - but since you live there - and you say that it isn't it makes me question the media even more so.
No intent to insult you or where you live - just what my perception was based on the information that I had at hand. -
Darling WW, you know I love you but Africa is an entire continent made up of a whole bunch of countries/regions/divisions of your choice. Tsk tsk for your generalizing.
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Exactly - its' like saying someone from Alaska is from California.
I understand that concept.
I do understand there are "slums" everywhere with heavy duty crime rates, etc.
However - in the media - her family appears to live in a shanty area - and appears to be impoverished like 3rd world country... Maybe I saw wrong and interpreted wrong.
But like I was saying - the perceptions I have had were that most of the shanty or unprivileged areas were extremely violent.
I guess what I've read and have been told are wrong - and I'm cool with being wrong.
I don't think everywhere is like that - but What I have seen made me feel like this poor child is going to have a horrible life - no matter where she lived.
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according to that news link ..
According to reports out of Australia and England, Semenya has male and female sexual organs, with no ovaries and internal male testes that produce three-times more testosterone than an average female.
I guess one would have to argue that if this extra testosterone clearly gave an advantage, like any other steroid or other drug, then it was a right decision to remove her medal. I don't think it should be an issue whether or not she is a he or man-woman or really a gender issue as they are describing it.-
True - but Hart - check it - SHE IS A WOMAN - her natural state of testosterone is NORMAL for her condition (she has testes).
Is it fair that the other runners DON'T have that much testosterone?
I mean - exactly: can you discriminate against a very tall player in basketball? -
The same thing happened with Canada's fastest man in the world Ben Johnson in 1987 who broke 9.79 in Seoul and tested positive for the anabolic steroid stanozolol and was stripped of his gold medal.
Of the eight people who ran that race - 5 of the 8 had high testosterone levels and got caught subsequently and lost their medals or was banned for life - (and probably on it at the same time during the race) .. observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1270863,00.html
It's not a WOMAN thing - it's an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE thing over running competition. -
That's not the same at all-- those guys intentionally took a banned substance.
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it seems like it should be a standard test. All it takes is a mouth swab. Y-chromosome shows up on the DNA test, you've got a guy! o_0 -
Tsk Tsk Tsk this is so sad. It reminds me of a controversy that happened here years ago regarding an athlete. I think this would not have reached an embarrassing proportion is only people who were involved with the asdssocioation viewed it by putting themselves in her shoes rather than treating her as an oddity. I can only imagine how horrible this is for her and how depressing it is. -
No matter what gender is determined I don’t think they should take the medal back. -
While I'm very sad for her, and I do not believe she should give the medal back as there was no precedent or previous justification for this decision, I do want to point one important detail out: There is a logical reason for separating male and female competitors in these races. The female body has a lower metabolism and a slightly off-center balance, creating a disadvantage in running events that can easily mean a 3-minute time differece for a 3.1 mile race between similarly classed (1st and 1st, 2nd and 2nd, last and last) athletes. There is actually a fairness issue here, but all the same, there was no precedent for this decision so it should be her decision.
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