Discussions
Summer camp, to go or not to go...
Posted by Anok • 2/21/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: kids, parenting, summer camps
I'm contemplating putting Punky in an (age approrpiate) summer camp this summer. It's 5 days a week fro a few weeks, but only a few hours per day.
Obviously, since I'm homeschooling, socialization at this age needs to start happening in earnest, so this is a step in the right direction. Plus, it'll give me some time to myself for a little bit each day.
My concern, however, is that I have seen the "counselors" they employ for older groups of kids - and I was none too impressed. In fact, it's the only thing that's making me reconsider (There aren't any other affordable summer camp or age appropriate group activities in the area this year). I'm concerned that the children won't be properly supervised.
Punky is...well a handful. And fearless. And defiant. If the group is using teenaged kids like they do for older groups I'm not gonna do it. Not at all.
What questions should I ask on Monday when I go in to register? They are also offering swimming lessons, so I'm extra concerned about safety and competence of the care givers.
Already I'm going to ask about certifications and such. But what else?
User Comments
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Sounds to me like you should ask if they have insurance against fire damage, and what the personal liability is
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Yeah, that too.
Punky's hell on wheels, but with a sharpened crayon...? Oh my!
Damn.
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I used to be a manager at a big science museum and we ran summer camps. Often 50+ kids, and believe me...there are troublemakers in every group. There will always be booboos and scrapes and kids who get into trouble no matter how many counselors there are, but there are a few things a parent should ask:
Background checks; make sure the counselors & staff have them.
Are the counselors and staff CPR & first aid certified? I wouldn't expect everyone to be, but there should always be someone available who is.
What is the camper to counselor/staff ratio. 10:1 or fewer is ideal. When you start getting 25:1, problems start arising. In a school classroom, 25 students is manageable, but in an outdoor setting...it's really too many to watch at once.
What security precautions are in place - is ID required to sign out your child each day? You don't want them giving your kid away to whoever asks for him.-
Oh, yes, ID requirements, good catch.
This is for toddler aged children, so the ratio should ideally be lower - no more than 6:1. State law for at home and legal day cares is, I think, 4:1. But I don't know if that applies to camps.
Background checks (I'm thinking no..hopefully for counselors of younger children they employ certified care givers - maybe).
CPR and first aid - a must! Particularly if they plan on swimming, I want lifeguard certs as well.
Scrapes and boo-boos we can handle, though -
I'm not sure which state you are in, but usually summer camps are not governed by the same laws as actual day schools and care centers.
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That's what I'm afraid of.
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Look at zoos, science and art museums as an alternative to traditional camp. There are many programs that are hand in glove with the same kind of enrichment you provide with home-schooling.-
Unfortunately, most of their programs are either too expensive, or not for 4 year olds
There is one place that does summer/all year round "playgroups" but what they offer is not worth the price. it works out to like $20 an hour, and you the parent still have to be present for supervisory purposes! -
Have you joined any home schooling discussion groups and put the question to them? They might have some great tips/advice for your area.
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Agreed - our museum offered weekly day camps during which each week had a particular theme. The kids actually learn something at these sorts of camps (or at least we tried to make sure they did )
There were usually a few homeschoolers in each session. I would definitely look into this sort of camp as well. -
what gtally said - the parent support groups are usually pretty good in most areas.
When I was growing up, our support group was always doing activities, especially during the summer. -
I've yet to find a forum with any good answers it's always "go to the library!" "Department of recreation!" Meh. I already knew that
We do attend stuff at the aquarium - where we have a membership - but it's not quite the same thing.
Punky needs to play - creative play with other kids the same age moreso than doing things more educationally inclined.
We're just...at that age where play is crucial. -
what state are you in?
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Don't wig out -- I know some of their their policies suck. But have you considered Scouts? If Punky is old enough to be a Tiger Cub, a Scout camp could provide him with some of the physical outlet he needs.
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Scouts are the WORST idea, because they push religion and discriminate against homosexuals. If they were a private organization it would be ok, but their funding is definitely NOT private. The scouts are extremely unhealthy to anyone, if there was a bill to outlaw their funding sources, I would vote in favor of it.
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Yeah I definitely don't do scouts - on an ethical basis. If this camp doesn't sound safe enough - I'll just find something else, I'm sure. Or do what we did last year, and have makeshift playgroups and such.
I don't think we have a 4-H here, though.
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In the same line of thinking as the scouts, 4-H is pretty fun too. I did that when I was young; I'm not sure what the age requirements are but they definitely do a lot of cool stuff.
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Yeah, and if Lord Baden Powell and the BSA are too creepy for you, there's an alternative called the Earth Scouts.
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As long as mankind is still around, People will fight wars, make laws, and commit crimes all in the name of religion. And it will never solve anything, the same as it always is.
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Okay. That's great
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LOL
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Where I am the YMCA is the cheapest but the level of supervision is poor. There is a main counselor who is paid and then "counselors in training" who are not paid. Seems like they were more interested in flirting with eachother. Once a boy was spitting water at my daughter in the pool and wouldn't stop. She ended up crying and getting out. A counselor told the boy to stop but he had no negative consequences. And no attention was given to my daughter at all. She just sat on the bleachers by herself. No one came to see what was wrong. Ends up a friend of her is the one who ratted on the boy and told me later that week. I thought it was so unfair that the "victim" was ignored and the "naughty" one was given a token reprimand.
I learned to complain at every opportunity directly to the main counselor to let them know that their CIT's were slacking.-
And...that's exactly what I'm afraid of!
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I was a beaver leader (no laughing!) for 6-8 year olds, the youngest part of the scouts in the UK and although it is a Christian organisation I was not Christian and they knew it.
The kids always had a great time, I organised all the science badges and art badges. Its not something that should be totally dismissed in my opinion. So if there is something similar, maybe worth checking out.
Over here everyone is police checked and there is always more than one first aider.-
Science badges eh? Did you ever hand out any on evolution?
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I'm hoping this camp is offering certified caregivers - manly because of the ages. I mean, toddlers are very young for all out "camp" with counselors and such, Extra care has to be taken because they're troublesome little twerps.
I mean...angels...
But beavers? really? That's what they called you girls? That's awful -
Yes Science badges.
Beavers was boys and girls as is all sectors of the scouts -
The scouts have no official stance on evolution, and the organization is ecumenical, pushing patriotism and being a good citizen, etc. No, what the Scouts don't do is support gay rights and have recently been caught receiving profits from clear cutting logging operations, which flies in the face of their environmental credos. But evolution is a non-issue, unless creationism is being pushed by a particular pack or den leader at the local level.
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Your scouts weren't segregated?
Wow.
Here we have "Boy scouts" and "Girl Scouts" Which start out as "Cubs" and "Brownies", respectively. -
We were the first girls in the area to be allowed into Scouts, I lasted two weeks
Then in my elder years I offered to help out so my nephew could join in -
You lasted two weeks because you beat up the boys and they kicked you out, right?
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I was a girl scout leader for 4 years - Daisies for kindergarten plus Brownies for 1-3rd grade. Camps welcomed non scouts as well. Our area allowed a buddy system where two friends can be kept together the whole day. My daughter has anxiety problems, especially around strangers by herself so her best friend, not a scout, went to camp with her and they had a blast. The camp was run by leaders and parent volunteers - no flirting or lazy teenagers.
Regarding religion - girl scouts is Christian based as far as it's history goes but there are no religious badges or anything slightly spiritual asked of the children.
Perhaps the Boy Scouts in your area would take your son in. They'd keep him busy earning badges, learning how to do things and making new friends. It's also neat to have his own special world, away from his parents.
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This is what I was trying to say before my laptop crashed: I went to Christian (yes, I know--religion BAAAAD!) summer camp once, for about a week. It was teenagers watching young kids...and, yeah, bad idea all around (we had no supervision usually, and--for some reason I couldn't fathom--my counselor made our cabin swim in the pools during lightning storms. Fun, fun, fun).
So, I would definitely say that if it is teens watching kids, then veto the idea (it will never end well for anyone).
Just my opinion -
Oh I'm all over hat veto if that's the case. We go to the local park where they have the older kids summer camp programs and....no way, no how, would I let my child got to that.
Uh-uh. Nope. Not gonna happen.
We actually had to stop going to that park on the days they were there because it was so bad. And I am not going to let my toddler be exposed to danger just for "socialization". Nope, no way.
So I'm crossing my fingers that the younger kids have different supervisors *crossing fingers* -
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Holy hell. I just double checked to see what would be available this summer - and the museum/exploratory type camps were $200 a whack!!! That's for like...a week. Ridiculous!
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That's not actually bad (at least not for what they charge around here). We paid triple that for my week-long camping disaster
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Yeah, but that's only for 2-3 hours 2-3 times a week.
So, essentially, $200 bucks for a whopping 9 hours. Waaay too expensive. -
Oh, I missed that! I thought it was shipping your child off--so, yeah, that's WAY too expensive for just a few hours
Sorry! -
I don't think they do ship-off camps for four year olds. They're a little young for that
Unbelievable - you'd think they'd lower the price, you know with the economic crisis and all... -
That would be true...I just didn't know your child was that young
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This is true. Although it doesn't always seem that Punky is so young. We've fully escaped the terrible two's and have entered full fledged into the f**king fours.
Fantastic! -
Yay! My oldest niece is four, and she acts like she's going on sixteen ('Okay, Iya, I know. You freakin' me out, Iya!'). So charming
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Summer camp should focus on enhancing your child's self-esteem, independence and creativity. The successful camp experience should improve social skills and provide quality peer relationships. Your camper should return home feeling better about themselves than when their summer began.
Questions:
(1) What is the camp director's age and background? How long has the director run this camp? Are there testimonials from parents and past campers that you can read?
(2) What is the philosophy regarding competition and the level of competitiveness?
(3) What is the camper-counselor ratio and what kind of training do the staff have?
(4) Have the camp staff and any volunteers they may rely upon to supervise and assist all had criminal record checks?
(5) How structured is the program? Which activities are required and which are optional? Are there electives (choices the child can make)?
(6) What are the methods of discipline that are employed at the camp?
(7) What are the arrangements for medical emergencies and what first aide training and certification do the staff members have?
(8) Is there a refund policy for campers who may wish to leave the camp early?
(9) What kind of insurance coverage is there?
(10) Are there copies of the menus of the food that will be served to your child available for you to read?
I referred to the information on this site and then amended it as I saw fit www.summercamp.org/guidance/pamphlet.html#Programs/Activities-
Excellent!
/hurries to write this all down...
Thanks TT - I hadn't even thought of discipline and insurance and competitive activities and such.
Oh, more to worry about -
Punky is...well a handful. And fearless. And defiant.
lol ... copy and paste it and print it out.
I'm laughing for a couple of reasons:
(1) my husband and I have done a lot of work with kids and youth;
(2) your description of Punky is a description of me,
and also a description of the kind of kids I ♥ working with.
Add to my list above
(10) Will be any religious teachings and rituals at the camp, and if so, can my child be exempted from them?
(11) Will there be qualified lifeguards on duty during swimming lessons and what is the ratio of qualified lifeguards to campers?
(12) What are the camp's guidelines are regarding communication to and from home while camp is in session?
(13) What are the camp's guidelines with regard to parents observing while the camp is in session? -
Somehow...I can see that. A little defiant TT running about. It makes me smile....
Yes, I've also bookmarked that site - I'll be walking in with a laundry list. It's a good thing I know the director
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