Discussions
Teachers ordered to go easy on students - never give zeroes, let students re-take tests
Posted by Seabuckthorn • 3/17/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: british columbia, grades, news, schools, Students, teachers
Read what I think: www.seabuckthorn.net/index.php/?p=137
According to a recent Vancouver Sun article - We’re told to go easy on students, B.C. teachers say – school principals are ordering teachers to ensure good grades to students, even if it means never giving a zero on an assignment or allowing a student to take a test as many times as necessary to achieve a passing grade.
What do you think?
User Comments
-
I think they should focus on teaching the kids well to begin with so they pass the tests on the first try...-
I'm definitely with Intarso on his reply. -
Indeed. And they should really teach, instead of just having students memorize things that they'll quickly forget right after the test. -
They most certainly should really teach. I hate fact memorisation!
But students need several tests during the whole process, because testing is for assessment/self assessment. They must know how they're going and how to improve.
-
-
It's crazy. What's wrong with young people growing up learning that they can't be good at everything, and that sometimes they will fail. That's what life is all about.
The people who make the rules should be made to read all those biographies of successful people who said they learned more through failure than success. If we never fail, we will never succeed either.
And how shallow life would be if everything was always easy and nice.
On a more academic note, if these students want to go higher with their learning they may find the number of times they had to sit a qualification before passing it becomes important. If you took 10 attempts to get the grades you needed for your degree, are you likely to be a successful student?-
And what about the people who learn that they are failures at life? That is the majority, rather than those who struggled against it. No one here is saying that teachers should make the learning easy, or pass them when they've not learnt the lesson. They're saying they should be given chances to relearn the lesson. When I was in high school, I worked SO hard to understand the periodic table. I almost failed. The next semester something about it just clicked, and I got an A for second semester. *That* was a good lesson for me. But I of course was never retested on the periodic table. It demonstrates however that it takes some students longer than the week on fractions to understand fractions and be ready for the Friday test.
The 'crazy' thing is teaching students through this hidden curriculum, that they should just give up because they're not going to get anywhere anyway.
-
-
I think this is crap. Good grades are not something that should be handed out on a platter, they have to be worked for. This just teaches students that they don't have to work hard and still succeed. The real world isn't like this. Bosses don't just give out raises for doing the same thing 10 times until they get it right. These people are doing a disservice to these kids because they aren't preparing them for the harshness of real life.-
Yes but if the boss's job is to train the employees, and the employees don't know how to do the job because the boss didn't train them - who should get punished? Whose fault is that? Poor school grades, and poor employee performance is a poor reflection on the teacher or the boss because it's their job to ensure that those underneath them are learning and/or trained to do the job they were hired to do. -
I agree with Anok. If a boss was like, on the first day "Right, serve the customers!" and went out the back room... and the new employee failed, that is not the employee's fault.
If they'd been scaffolded into it and still couldn't do it, then perhaps that job is not suited for them. Or perhaps they need more practice.
The real world *does* give more chances than school does.
-
-
That's beginning to happen here in Virginia. It's like there is no such thing as a bad student (even when it comes to behavior). I think this is just setting our kids up for an inevitable breakdown when they get in the real world and realize you can (and often do) fail. -
Well, now wait. There is a difference between handing out undeserved good grades, and taking every opportunity to ensure that the student can earn said good grades.
For example, if a teacher see's a failing test score and changes it - that's handing out a grade. But if the student fails the test, and the teacher offers to go over the material again until the student gets it (as best he or she can) and is allowed to try again - what's wrong with that?
School is for LEARNING not for competing. If the students aren't passing tests that means they aren't learning, and whose fault is that?-
Wouldn't that open the door to the student thinking "Why bother -- I can always take it again?"
-
No, teachers are wise to kids who are being lazy, rather than those who are actually struggling to understand a topic.
Common sense should be used. -
I say this because my son's teacher goes easy on him. I even had to go to the school and ask her to stop. He's only in the third grade, but he hates to read (yet can read and comprehend very well). He refuses to study and often gets a C on tests. I want him to know that if doesn't work hard, there is no reward (such as life).
-
That is a different issue. And it's one that I have found that's become pervasive in schools.
I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I'll say it anyway...
It occurred to me that if teachers are being asked, increasingly, to hand out positive grades to students who are doing poorly, then increasing amounts of students must be doing poorly. And if increasing amounts of students are doing poorly - then the teaching style and curriculum are not being properly designed, and implemented.
If a small percentage of students in a classroom do poorly, then the issue resides with the student(s). Perhaps the material is too hard, they have learning disabilities, they're lazy/bored etc...
But if a large percentage of the class is doing poorly then the issue resides with the teacher. There is no way that a good teacher can take a classroom full of children of average intelligence, and have most of them "not getting" the lessons.
So that tells me that the teachers are not doing their jobs properly - and I have seen this in action in our school systems here (and have fought it alongside my mother for my youngest brother's sake). The teachers were not only unqualified to teach, but they barely had a grasp on the subjects themselves.
Now, pair that with a teacher - like that of your son's - who refuses to work with parents, and teach material that engages and challenges children to a degree that they actually learn it regardless of how "difficult" the material may seem - and you get failing students, and lazy teachers who'll just keep handing out good grades to make sure they keep their jobs.
The issue at hand here isn't about giving students a second chance at proving themselves, and at learning material they didn't get the first time. My teachers did that when I was in school - and students were better for it.
This is about not having to teach to a higher standard, and making sure your students are learning the material.
Reason number 388829768376 of why I'm homeschooling
School isn't about "tough love" or "teaching the harsh realities of life" or even competing against other students - it's about learning the subjects that will help them understand and advance in their environment, and competition with themselves - always encouraging them to do better next time. -
I couldn't have said it better Anok (and why I'm still begging my husband to let me homeschool our children)!
-
Oh! And I was expecting to get flamed
LOL.
Yup, we're homeschooling unless we can find (and afford) a very good school for Punky. -
Anok, I think I love you. That attitude is exactly what new Australian teachers are being taught. I've seen horrible teachers in my time and I don't defend their actions at all.
... I'm concerned about year 3s and testing though. We don't do that very often here. The assessment is through rich tasks where possible, observation, and informal testing *most* of the time.
Another thing that might get me flamed is: Sometimes students not wanting to study is partially the fault of the parents, or just the child's personality. (though in this case it is probably the teacher).
-
-
I'm all for little Billy and Susie having good selfesteem but not in this way. This is like playing sports games where no one ever wins because we don't want anyone to have hurt feelings. Or like not using red pens to grade papers because it's too harsh for them to look at. I think this coddling is part of the problem with our future. We don't teach our children to work hard and earn their grades, their wins, their praises. If a child isn't passing it's up to the teachers and the parents to work together with the child, not for the parents to make the teachers pass them anyway.-
I agree with what you are saying, but am beginning to think we've lost sight of what it means to have self-esteem these days. It isn't a competition and no one is better than the other, but it seems self-esteem and competition are beginning to go hand in hand.
-
I'm not talking about competition. I'm talking about parents teaching their children to work hard and earn their grades. How fair is it to punish a child who works hard and pulls off good grades only to see another student given the same grades without doing that work?
-
I was addressing the whole "self-esteem" thing. I'm with you on teaching kids to work for their grades (as I do with my own children).
-
So if a child fails the test the first time, goes home, studies harder, and gets a second chance to take the same test, and does better - they haven't worked for that grade?
If a child scored low on some tests, and was given the chance to earn extra marks with extra work showing that the know and understand the material, they haven't earned that?
What, exactly, are we teaching our children? Instead of "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again" we're teaching them "if you don't get it right the first time, you f**ked, sorry kid." -
"So if a child fails the test the first time, goes home, studies harder, and gets a second chance to take the same test, and does better - they haven't worked for that grade?"
Unfortunately (where I'm from) that isn't what is happening (although it is how it should go). -
If the teachers are doing what they do here - that is to say never failing a student or giving an actual grade the first time - then I agree with you 100%.
We took a paper that was written by my brother in the 5th grade, covered the score on it, and showed it to the superintendent of schools to see his reaction. He stated that it was a very good paper for a 1st or second grader, then inquired what grade he was in. Then he stated that the paper should have received a maximum grade of c-...when we revealed the actual grade he received - 100% the superintendent about fell off his chair.
He had no idea that teachers were simply grading off the cuff, and not actually working with the students...or, you know...teaching.
So I have to wonder how much of a disconnect there is between the educational higherups - who are issuing these rules (have the children take the tests again, slow down the material) and the actual teachers and school administrations who are simply not doing their jobs.
-
-
My students are allowed to redo assignments, and redo tests, but they are allotted this accomodation by law and with in reason. My students are special needs and they are accommodated to ensure success. Believe me these kids aren't pulling straight A's they are lucky to pass with C's...is it fair, YES, I am a firm believer that fair isn't always equal. The goal is for the students to progress, and make progress yearly. Accommodations are needed to accomplsh this -
Old thread is Old, but assessment is about 'how well you are doing now', and reporting that to the student, to their parents, and later, to the universities. Saying 'right, you got 10/20 on that Maths Test, that's it, mate!' is ridiculous and implies that you can't improve, and taht you are a failure. In real life, you get extra tries. You burn your meal? You can make it another night. Education is about learning. If they are learning again before the retaking of tests, then that's a fantastic thing. If it's just 'here's the same test back again' 5 minutes later, that's pretty stupid.
What is our education system for, for ranking students against each other, or for... educating future citizens to have skills?
Their assessment therefore might show 'they got 14 out of 20, then 16 out of 20, and then they decided that that was okay for them'. Hopefully they'd be learning the skills required to get the marks that they got.
Not letting children retake anything, and only saying 'well, you failed fractions, but now we're going to move onto percentages and you can do better in that one and that'll bump up your maths scores!' is really ridiculous logic. Yes, there's a limit to how much time you can spend teaching fractions to this child- but then I know of lots of year 9s who are in basic numeracy lessons, getting a second chance at it.
Yes, it would be brilliant to help the students learn the stuff before the test takes place, but sometimes both retesting/relearning has to happen *and* good teaching before a test.
But I don't agree with the American testing style anyway... -
Yea...know what you mean. I will tell you what is wrong with the schools. It takes a villiage kind of mentality is gone. It is all carriculems which they change every year. They aren't using phonics for reading at my girls school which I've raised hell about,but in a nice way. They are teaching memorization and site words instead of showing how the letters sound and go together. After my girls do their homework for school we get on starfall.com and I'm teaching them the phonics way to.
You get teachers who are WAY underpaid,so there really aren't some of the best teaching anyway,plus you have parents who won't take the time of day to help their kids,or the single mom is so exausted after working 2 jobs to have the time to help. Things in this country are gonna have to change a little if you wanna start producing smart and productive members of society again.-
What a cool site!
-
-
This is a wrong direction and I hope it fails miserably (any quickly, before much damage is done)!-
Perhaps you should read other people's comments on this and what it means.
-
-
Is this some kind of ploy to get more students into college?? I don't think it's fair to hand out A's to students who don't deserve it. I think it defeats the point of a grading system. Otherwise school would be pass or fail, graduate or not and there are just so many other degrees that that. Teachers need to be able to evaluate students and help them in the areas that are needed. This sounds like another typical American "fast solution" to a long term problem, that will ultimately dig us deeper into a fked up situation.-
Assessment... what do you think it's for??
-
-
Teachers should give students the grades that they earn because students are smarter and capable of more than teachers think. This will be another systems that students will abuse, if I had this while I was in public school I would've abuse it.
That is also a bad influence on students because if you make school that easy, they will think that everything in life is that easy and its not. -
That's absolutely ludicrous - How about kids earn their grades. I can understand if a student is struggling, offer tutoring, perhaps class-wide extra credit so they can try to pull their grades up. But to just give them good grades? Sorry, but when you enter the real world, your performance is what gets you paid and allows you keep your job. -
It's a good thing if it lowers the kids' stress. I'd rather see happy kids than high SAT scores.-
I agree, but I was never a fan of the SAT.
-
-
I think it is a very bad idea. -
I am a Middle School teacher and I think that this is absurd. We have to teach kids to set goals for themselves and to work hard to accomplish these goals. Life will not be easy on them so we should prepare them for reality.-
And they can never have another chance? No one is saying 'keep going until they get As' right? (and even if they did, what's wrong with that, if they worked hard to get to that A after some chances?)
In real life, say you want to learn a skill. You 'study' it. And then you might not be that good still. Do you just give up? No. You keep trying until you are good, even if it takes you 5 years wheras it takes your friend Josie 6 months to do. That is the reality. -
Obviously, you did not read what I wrote. I am not saying that there shouldn't be second chances. What I am saying is that passing grades shouldn't be handed to students in order to push them along. If we do that, we end up having High School students who can't read because they were ushered along through every grade just to be promoted. Unfortunately, the world is not as rose colored as you would have students think.
-
-
The purpose of testing isn't only to gauge where a student is at, but also to acclimatise the student to drawing on knowledge and skill in a timely fashion, under pressure.
I could beat a chess Grand Master if I had unlimited time, but elite chess matches have time limits in part to 'test' the players on their ability to act with speed as well as skill.
I have no objection to re-testing, for many of the reasons mentioned above. But I do believe that there should be a penalty for not performing to standard the first time: perhaps a ceiling on the percentage the student can earn, or a percentage trimmed off the final mark, whatever it is.
Do posters like Livinginthepast really think that good students should be penalised for getting it right the first time? For instance, if Livinginthepast gets 80% the first time s/he has to stand pat with that mark, but if I get 55% on my first try, I get another shot? I don't object to getting a second chance, but what if I get 85% the second time? Should I get a better kick at the post-secondary can ahead of Livinginthepast as a reward for taking longer to learn the material?
In post-secondary, one lives or dies on the strength of one's ability to disgorge the correct information in the correct manner in the correct time-frame. At some point in the public school years, that concept has to be introduced as an element of determining academic success if for no other reason than to prepare students for that future reality.
I have no problem with students being re-tested in order to turn a failing grade into a pass - I agree that there is enough merit in the work being done to reward with a pass - but IMO there needs to be some penalty to a) acknowledge that getting it right the first time IS academically superior; and b) to ensure that those whose studying style and/or academic prowess require that they re-take tests don't end up with better grades than those who only got one chance.-
We have an entire generation out now who was taught to teach to pass a test rather then to learn. And we have so many people who cannot balance a check book, good grammar, can’t spell correctly, and does not have the basic skills there parents gained in school to make it on there own because we sacrificed those courses and those skill classes for a group of peoples political ideology in what Parents and Teachers thought would help people in life.
Right now 75% of people who go to college don’t graduate and the rest and those 75% often find themselves screwed for life because they took out Student Loans and those who graduate often find their skills or degree useless or makes them over-qualified.
Most states have upped Child Support laws to the age of 23 because parents after running out of funds and seeing how expensive it was and some actually got a clue that college isn’t going to get most people a good paying career stopped funding their adult children’s college career.
-
-
If everybody passes then the work wasn't challenging enough and the smarter kids are robbed of some of their potential. -
All this competition for grades and preferment is loathsome. When's it all going to stop?
-
Not good at all. They will eventually catch on that they won't and don't need to put hard effort into schooling because they will never fail. I would pull my kids out of school that implements this kind of rule. -
Go easy? I wish mine had been harder. Why not just sit the kids down and let them know we don't believe their capable? -
Our whole education system is out of whack. In my town the department of education schools started to teach to the test which standardized testing would become the focus in everyone’s life. We had to do good or we failed and went through summer school in which tons of kids sadly had to go through.
It was all about the test, they even stopped teaching us grammar and typing skills to, ‘Teach to the Test.’ -
Students need to be taught better the first time around. True there are going to be circumstances that will need special attention. However as a general rule, if a child fails a test, the child fails.
Here is the thing though, if a child fails then there is obviously something wrong there. Either the child did not study hard enough, or the child did not understand the material well enough to retain the information. So when a child fails, the teacher should then take the time to sit with the child and go over the test. The teacher and child should work together on finding where the child went wrong or how the material could be looked at differently so that the child can retain it.
Heres what I think with regards to that magical number zero. When I was in school, every single teacher I ever had who ever gave a zero gave that zero because the assignment/test was not done. As in the test/assignment was handed back blank. Thus warranting a zero. When this happens however, the teacher should step up and ask why. They should take the initiative to find out what is going on with the child in the hopes of helping the child correct it so that future assignments/tests may be done correctly and thus warranting a better grade.
So while I disagree with the ban on failing grades/zeros, I also feel that the teacher should attempt to help the student understand what is causing that failing grade to come to fruition.-
I just gave a kid a 0. ... but he also sat there and refused to do ANYTHING and then got mad at me for not getting a mark. Hello, I can't assess you if you don't hand anything in, mate!
-
-
There was a story like this in Texas last year: clioandme.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/education-without-limits/
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
