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I was raised in the pseudo-democratic educational system of Israel, which trains you to be a good soldier.

Apart from the regular skewing of history that all nations do, to fit what ever their agenda is, there's a tight collaboration between the education department and and the army. Its height is at the 12th grade, with a project called "Gadna":

The school takes 12th graders to a field trip in a military camp, set up for the purpose of you spending the week there, and simulating basic training, with all your friends. They actually give 16-17 year-olds guns and teach us how to use them!

It's all the same shit across the globe. "Democracies" just choose the sneakier version of it.

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1/09/09

And another thing: This movie is part of a whole youtube channel that wreaks of Israeli propaganda. The person who made it is a cynic- he doesn't give a shit about the children of Gaza.

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1/09/09

harveyavatar

Thanks for your input, Tali.

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1/09/09

HollytheHousewife

@ tali Well why doesn't anybody give a shit about Isreals babies? All I've heard is how this war isn't being fought proportionally. I keep hearing how The timing was "fishy" wich by the way president elect obama said he would do
the exact same thing if hamas was firing rockets into his house while his
to little girls were sleeping.
Would it be an ok war if Isreal would fight back with just rockets?
War is not fair. War is HELL. It sucks for both sides babies and innocent civilans. The problem is Hamas uses schools,mosque,hospitals as their sheilds. That isn't propaganda. That is a fact.

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1/09/09

Tali

Because Israel's babies aren't dying in hundreds, Holly. Because 700:10 is NOT proportional. By the way, "proportional" is a cryptic term, open to too much debate- a violent response is wrong. PERIOD.

The timing wasn't "fishy"- This war is being cynically used by our politicians. Any war, is a war waged against a country's own citizens. Our 18 year-olds go to war and all the fuckers in the parliament talk about heroism- what a load of crap! They're dead- there's nothing heroic in that.

Obama hasn't proved himself much of a humanist. And it's a shame, because I was hoping he'd actually bring change. I cross my fingers for all Americans that he'll do better for internal affairs than he has for external.

War, as I said, is NEVER ok. With "just" rockets or with cluster bombs and other illegal weapons the Israeli army is utilizing. Israel has a racist, violent mentality at its roots. Anything we- its citizens- can do to overturn that is a patriotic act, even if it means speaking out against our government and calling it out internationally on its wrong doing. It's my right as a citizen of a democracy and it's my duty (as skewed as that democracy may be).

Hamas is without a doubt a terrible regime and is proving itself a catastrophe for its people. Nevertheless, I believe it was Theodore Roosevelt that said "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Hamas is what we have in Gaza- what we can do is create peace.
1/09/09

NewBlogger2008

Tali- War is not fair, never has been and never will be. I really do not think that you understand the history behind the Israel-Arab conflict nor the current situation. You cannot create peace with Hamas because they do not want it. They want to destroy Israel and the Jews. You cannot force Hamas into peace because they simply will ignore it as they have in the past. If you do not like that children are caught in the middle of a war, then maybe you should be complaining that Hamas is firing rockets from schools, storing weapons in homes, and using mosques as command centers. Israel is doing their best to avoid civilian casualties while Hamas is doing their best to MAXIMIZE them. If you cannot understand this then I am just wasting my time.
1/09/09

legbamel

Obama isn't even president, yet. Give him a minute, wouldja? I'm not saying he'll be perfect or even good, but he can't be any sort of persident for a couple of weeks.

1/09/09

urikalish

The Hamas Charter:

www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

Your comments please...?

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1/09/09

Tali

Yeah, they're fanatical and have a platform that would make Hitler's mustache curl in fear- is that good reason to kill 700 people in 13 days?
1/10/09

ophase

I read the charter and it seems like there are some translation errors in the verses of Qur'an.
Hamas obviously is a terrorist organization but it's sad that these verses have used as an instrument in a conflict.
Who the hell is Hamas to declare Jihad in the name of the Islamic World?? Or who are they to decide and command fighting with guns??

Also note that "Fear" is the main source for such an organization. Some of their fears from the charter:
"...the various Zionist Organizations which take on all sorts of names and shapes such as: the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, Lions Clubs, B’nai B’rith and gangs of spies and the like.."

1/09/09

But Hamas did agree to a ceasefire and then the Israeli GOVERMENT held them under seige for 5 months, how peaceful was that? desperate people will do desperate things I'm afraid....Breaking treaties about countries borders is not fair and never will be.
Please can you tell me who the Israeli goverment is prepared to negotiate peace with, Egypt,Lebenon, Jordan, Syria, Hamas, The PLO, The UN who do they approve of..........

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1/09/09

Tali

I second your question Pat.
1/09/09

rfburnhertz

Hamas agrees to "cease fires" but it does not mean the same thing to them as it does the rest of the world. When they make such agreements they do so understanding for themselves a cease fire as the tahdiah.

Which under their own defining means an agreement only as it suits their needs, to re-weaponize, bring in more soldiers, etc...

The meaning of the term keeps evolving, but never evolves in the direction of a true cease fire.

1/09/09

NewBlogger2008 "War is not fair" is such a cruel understatement. Not being picked for the team is unfair, getting sieged, bombed, shot at, starved with no medical attention and broken sewage pipes overflowing the streets, is way beyond.

Israel is NOT doing their best to avoid civilian casualties- if they were- there wouldn't be any. Where there's a will- there's a way. Without a doubt there is no will.

Your condescension in assuming I "don't understand" just because I don't agree with you is a deplorable debate tactic.

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1/09/09

jafabrit

"Your condescension in assuming I "don't understand" just because I don't agree with you is a deplorable debate tactic."

A typical ad hominem tactic which "is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Ad_hominem_abusive
1/09/09

aningeniousname

It's good to hear an Israeli condemning the savage actions of the government for once.
Just because there are some Headcase's in Hamas firing fireworks at Israel it don't give you the right to create a new Warsaw Ghetto, the Jews of all the people in the world should be standing up against these brutal attacks on civilians.
1/09/09

csc5502

"Israel is NOT doing their best to avoid civilian casualties- if they were- there wouldn't be any. Where there's a will- there's a way. Without a doubt there is no will."

Spoken like the typical person totally ignorant of military operations or weaponry.

All anti-building or antipersonnel weaponry employed by modern military forces involve the use of explosives or projectiles propelled by explosives. By definition, once the explosion occurs you cannot decide precisely where it will hit. Even a sniper's bullet, accurately fired, can penetrate the exact person it was aimed at and still go through and hit someone else or deflect off a hard surface behind the target and hit someone else.

Since we don't currently employ phaser guns or disintegration beams, the only way to totally avoid "civilian" casualties is to not shoot back.

They're still TRYING to minimize collateral damage, by the way.

www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230456505080&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/...

We already have enough of OUR troops killed because they won't shoot into "innocent civilians" to hit people shooting at them; if Israel refuses to let their soldiers and citizenry die the same way then I applaud them.

If Hamas doesn't want Israel killing their "innocent" civilians there are a few basic things they could do.

One, they could fire off a few rockets from an area NOT occupied by women and children for a change.

Two, they could stand up and fight like the big, bad, tough guys they claim to be instead of hiding behind civilians and wearing masks in public.

Three, they could stop shooting in the first place.

Unless they're willing to do that, or the Palestinians themselves don't rise up and stop them, neither Hamas nor their crybaby supporters in Gaza have any room to complain when a "school" or "mosque" takes a bomb or three.

poorrepublican.today.com/

1/09/09

jafabrit i probably shouldn't have said that one- it weakens my case

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1/09/09

jafabrit

No, it weakens NewBlogger2008 case.

1/09/09

Don't worry about it my not being able to spell when annoyed weakens my case to!

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1/09/09

Febry

Peace..

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1/09/09

rfburnhertz

Hamas teaches their children to hate. They teach them to seek death, their own and the deaths of those they consider enemies. Hamas seeks the complete destruction of Israel. They seek the destruction of America, and so far as the Jewish people and Americans as individuals, "kill them all, down to the very last one" (Sheik Ahmad Bahr).

Yunis Al-Astal a Hamas cleric has made it clear that it is the goal of Hamas to bring the whole of the world under Islam.

If you do not think Hamas and those like Hamas are your enemy, you are wrong, unless you do not mind forced conversion or being murdered for refusing to convert or if you are already of like mind with them.

It is a horrible, unforgivable shame that so many innocent people are dying in Gaza. The shame belongs to Hamas and Hamas alone, the blood of those innocents is on their hands. Not to mention that they directly murder their own people on a regular basis (as does Fatah).

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1/10/09

ophase

I don't agree. Don't blame it on Hamas directly. If the mass destruction weapons had been used, Israel leaders should be judged at the International Criminal Court in Hague.

There are other ways of fighting with terrorism which Mossad knows very well. Violence is not a solution.
1/10/09

rfburnhertz

Ophase,
so if Hamas throws a rock Israel may only throw a rock back in defense of itself?

Violence IS a solution, history shows very well that it is effective. It may not 'always' be the answer, but when thousands of rockets are lobbed at you, I would suggest violence is a very good answer especially when those who are lobbing the rockets has resolved that they will destroy your nation and kill ALL who live in that nation.

1/10/09

Are you now saying this is a religious war? Sensationalising statements by one fanatical Muslim cleric really isn’t helpful. Firstly anyone who knows anything about Islam will know that the Koran states “There is no compulsion in religion”
Secondly Hamas have stated that they are prepared to go back to the 1967 boarder treaties The state of Israel was created in 1946 how can they not be recognising the state of Israel?

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1/10/09

urikalish

You obviously don't understand what Hamas is all about.
Please read the Hamas charter before commenting any further:
www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

p.s. Israel was created in 1948.
1/10/09

rfburnhertz

One fanatical Muslim cleric?
Try hundreds.

Hamas is dedicated, by their admission, to the destruction of Israel and the death of ALL Jews. I have quotes by Hamas leaders saying they will kill Jews and Americans 'down to the very last one'.

Quotes from them saying they will invade Rome, they will take over Europe. Quotes saying that the whole of the world will be under Islam.

Their plan of bringing the whole globe under Islam does not include them winning converts by way of home visits and passing out Quran tracts.

1/10/09

I see you have only corrected my date. Am I incorrect in my understanding that Hamas will except the 1967 boarder treaties?
And when they have asked for a two state soloution This doesn't show the world that they except the state of Israel?
Do you live on land taken from the Palestinians since 1967?
Your link by the way is a 404 page not found.

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1/10/09

urikalish

Yes, I see they removed these documents.

Just 1 sentence as an example (from Hamas Charter article #13): "...the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad..."

Many believe that these statements reflect the new Hamas strategy "take what you can by peace; then take the rest by force."

1/10/09

legbamel: people are dieing in a ratio of about 50 a day, right now- Obama is unwilling to say anything until he comes in to office, in about 20 days- do the math.

csc5502: "Spoken like the typical person totally ignorant of military operations or weaponry." - read jafabrit's comment- it's too comments above yours.

"By definition, once the explosion occurs you cannot decide precisely where it will hit." - not really a problem, is it, when your just air raiding what you can...

"Since we don't currently employ phaser guns or disintegration beams, the only way to totally avoid "civilian" casualties is to not shoot back." - The only way to totally avoid civilian (what's with the parenthesis?! ovor a fourth of Gazan casualties, in this war ARE civilian) casualties is not shoot.

High precision bombs are a great way to tell the world "see, I'm minimizing" casualties- get real- these bombs just make sure you hit your mark... please...

"We already have enough of OUR troops killed because they won't shoot into "innocent civilians" to hit people shooting at them" - That's A. hearsay B. The Israeli army bombs buildings whether there are innocent people on them or not.

"If Hamas doesn't want Israel killing their "innocent" civilians" - We've already established that Hamas doesn't care for the Palestinians- this point is irrelevant.

"Three, they could stop shooting in the first place." - So could Israel.

"the Palestinians themselves don't rise up and stop them," - if you were in their place; people being kneecapped in the streets and left for dead, weddings trashed- would you? (Hamas terrorize the Palestinians, would you, in that situation, be the big man and stand up to them?! please...)

"neither Hamas nor their crybaby supporters in Gaza have any room to complain when a "school" or "mosque" takes a bomb or three." - So when do we have the room to complain? When everybody's dead and there's no one to do it?!

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1/10/09

rfburnhertz go to the schools in America- the Pledge of Allegiance straight up in the morning! Again, Democracies just choose the sneakier version of brainwash.

"If you do not think Hamas and those like Hamas are your enemy, you are wrong, unless you do not mind forced conversion or being murdered for refusing to convert or if you are already of like mind with them." - Again- I do not believe in the goals of the Hamas. I believe in the right of every man to live and live pleasantly, without being shot at. As you said "they directly murder their own people on a regular basis", but so does Israel.

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1/10/09

rfburnhertz

Does the American Pledge of Allegiance teach and encourage American children to murder those who disagree with them?

America (though over the decades pulling away from it) is a nation setup under the rules of natural law. Hamas, Islam in general, has no respect for such a thing.

Hamas IS a collection of murderers. They live off of religious/racial hate.

Israel can do NOTHING to stop Hamas from seeing them as an enemy short of each and every Jew hanging themselves.

1/10/09

Pat- thank god (figure of speech)- a sane voice!

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1/10/09

"For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion;"
Could this not also be said for the Jewish settlers? Did they not lay claim to this land via their religious connection too?
"take what you can by peace; then take the rest by force."
Why does this seem so scary to you? This statement seems to only reflect Israeli government policy dating back over the last 60 odd years?

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1/10/09

urikalish

I'm trying to calculate the odds for future peace when Hamas is the elected Palestinian government which is reluctant (by its creed) to settle for anything less than the whole of Israel.

1/10/09

jafabrit What I meant is that there's a catch 22 in claiming ad hominem in the middle of a debate, because by doing so , you're committing it as well. See the irony?

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1/10/09

Oh Israel again is it?

Does anyone get tired of them always smelling of roses?

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1/10/09

rfburnhertz

I'm sorry, where is it they smell like a rose?
Be it the MSM or the alternative media by a high percentage Israel is demonized.

1/10/09

Well..the news i'm watching is certainly not taking that stance, but then that's only sky news and the bbc world service. Perhaps I missed something? Anyone got Mel Gibson's number?

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1/10/09

rfburnhertz

Yes, I think you have missed something.

1/10/09

"Israel can do NOTHING to stop Hamas from seeing them as an enemy short of each and every Jew hanging themselves."
Try giving them back their land, letting them rebuild their power station and allowing the food and medical supplies in and maybe they may soften a bit......
"American children to murder those who disagree with them?"

Actually my husband was taught how to load a machine gun and to fire a hand gun when he was 10 years old in Tel Aviv it seems Hamas are not the only ones who teach their children bad things.

"Married Christian Conservative, father of six who worries about the America and the world his children are going to inherit."

Clearly not worried about the world that the children of Gaza are going to inherit are you.

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1/10/09

rfburnhertz

Their 'land' was returned to them and more beyond that offered and rejected. There is no softening of a group which states it seeks the destruction of Israel, death of all Jews, destruction of America, death of all Americans, and conversion of all who inhabit this planet (including yourself) to Islam.

Did the training your husband received in the use of weapons include the chanting of "Death to _______ (insert nation, religion, race here)"?

Being that you know nothing about myself beyond a BC bio and a few posting here and there which you may or may not have read, it is then not clear to you it is only assumed by you that I do not care about the children in Gaza and the world they will inherit.

You are mistaken in your assumption.

I do not see other children and hope that they have less opportunity, less success, less peace, less fulfillment than my own children.

1/10/09

Israel has lived well by the sword for many years, and if you live by the sword...

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1/10/09

rfburnhertz: of course not- that's not the way of pseudo-democracies. What it teaches them is a loyalty to their country, which is in fact separative in nature and creates nationalism. People who automatically pledge allegiance to a country first thing in the morning, will automatically fight for their country, ergo kill people from the "other" country.

I don't know what you mean by "natural law". please explain so I can understand what you are saying.

"Israel can do NOTHING to stop Hamas from seeing them as an enemy short of each and every Jew hanging themselves." Agree with Pat on this one.

"thousands of rockets" - a grossly overestimated number, do you have a source?

"Violence IS a solution, history shows very well that it is effective." - Somehow, I doubt that if the Nazis DID succeed in exterminating all the Jews, world peace would have happened.

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1/10/09

rfburnhertz

8,000+ rockets www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/4015994/Peace-in-Gaza-is-in-the-...

When I said that violence is a solution I did not mean that it would bring world peace, it can and has however end one person,army or nations aggression.
1/11/09

legbamel

And how, exactly, did people stop the Nazis from killing others? By asking them nicely? By pointing out that it was wrong? Or through violence?

I'm not suggesting that I support a war of any sort between Israel and Palestine, but your argument doesn't hold water.

1/10/09

rfburnhertz: "8,000 rockets have been fired at their territory in recent years." - IN RECENT YEARS. Not in the current war. It doesn't make it right, but facts should be stated as clearly and accurately as possible.

XanthePat: Do ask your husband what him and his unit were chanting while they were target practicing. While you're at it, ask him about the dark humor prevalent in the tents. When I was a secretary in Gaza, I remember a conversation between the head of my unite and other high ranking officers, in the mess hall:

Head: "How many houses did we take down, this year?"
Officer: "297."
Head: "Take down another three- to make it nice and round."

rfburnhertz: Hamas didn't invent extremism. It's everywhere.

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1/11/09

rfburnhertz

I understand it say's recent years, not sure I indicated that I thought 8,000+ rockets had been fired in recent 'days'. 8,000+ rockets in 'recent' years is not a significant number to you?

Break it down just for 2008 for known rockets fired by Hamas into S. Israel.
Jan 08, 241 rockets
Feb 08, 257 rockets
Mar 08, 196 rockets
April 08, 145 rockets
May 08, 149 rockets
June 08, 87 rockets
July 08, 1 rocket
Aug 08, 8 rockets
Sep 08, 1 rocket
Oct 08, 2 rockets
Nov 08, 126 rockets
Dec 08, 120 rockets before Israel began military response
Well over 1,000 rockets in a 12 month period, approaching 1,000 rockets before Israel made response.

Note too that before Israel made a military response Hamas had said in an Al-Quds interview that the tahdiah would be ended by Hamas Dec 19, 2008.
In reality however, any cease fire was broken by Hamas long before.

1/11/09

And Yesterday The Israelis showered Gaza with WHITE PHOSPOROUS

What are its effects?

If particles of ignited white phosphorus land on a person's skin, they can continue to burn right through flesh to the bone. Toxic phosphoric acid can also be released into wounds, risking phosphorus poisoning.

Skin burns must be immersed in water or covered with wet cloths to prevent re-combustion until the particles can be removed.

Exposure to white phosphorus smoke in the air can also cause liver, kidney, heart, lung or bone damage and even death.

A former US soldier who served in Iraq says breathing in smoke close to a shell caused the throat and lungs to blister until the victim suffocated, with the phosphorus continuing to burn them from the inside.

Long-term exposure to lesser concentrations over several months or years may lead to a condition called "phossy jaw", where mouth wounds are caused that fail to heal and the jawbone eventually breaks down.

Please these people are really suffering have some heart even if you hate what Hamas represents no human being deserves this.

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1/11/09

rfburnhertz

White Phosphorus is used as cover very often in war. It's use is nothing unusual.

I agree that the people of Gaza are suffering and it is heart wrenching. These people will not see an end to their suffering and the world does them no favors by redirecting the blame.

The blood of these innocent persons is on the hands of Hamas. Israel has the right to defend themselves. The proportionality argument against Israel holds no water, it also only assures the prolonging of war. It is Hamas not Israel which builds military bunkers under hospitals, stores weapon caches in and near homes. Fires weapons from private homes and public buildings.

At any rate, I've made my point here and see no reason to carry on with the thread. The thread seems to be, imo, a battle of fact VS. emotion.

This is the kind of argument/debate that could take a nasty turn and I don't want to be a part of that.

Not that it hasn't been civil so far (at least the comments I've read, haven't read every comment).
1/11/09

XanthePat

I would just like to point out that Israel has insisted that they are not trying to harm the civillian population of Gaza.
How do you guarantee that civilians are not being harmed when you use this kind of(illegal) weaponry?

1/11/09

Guess116

can you tell me why Israel with the suport of american and european colonised Palestine?

israel now its full of ppl coming from all over the world just because they have same relegion.

why this people wont stay at their hometown should be no problem i think.

French Jews should stay at france
russian Jews should stay at russia
arabe jews should stay each in their country........
.......ect

in every country there is different religions and cultures and they live in peace but Jews all over the world they choose this place for X reason and say this will be a jews country....

in my homecountry we have still jews and they live in peace with all other comunities without thinking of going a strange place where i have to fight and kill to survive

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1/11/09

beinki

If anything this should teach Israel not to give up land for peace.

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1/11/09

brexians

let them fight their own struggle
always a coin has two faces...

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1/11/09

And that pearl of wisdom translates into what???

Coin always has two sides eh?...guess Hitler wasn't all bad then right?

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1/11/09

legbamel: Good point. That's why we (yes, the people), should be in control of our governments and not the other way around. It should never have gotten there in the first place. It got there because people relinquish their right to think. They do it because it's comfortable and the results are always disastrous. If Israel and Hamas stop now and take responsibility for their actions that's a step in the right direction. We can't afford to start thinking after bombs go off, we need to discipline ourselves to do it all the time.

Guess116: Israel is the only case in history that I know of that gave refugees a state, instead of refugee status in someone else's state. By the way if anyone knows of another example of this, I'd appreciate it.

What is usually not understood by people out of Israel is that for Israelis, there's a misguided notion that Judaism is not just a religion, but a nationality. My ID card states that my nationality is "Jew"- I'm an atheist!

The whole premise of Israel is that it's a Jewish haven. If Israel gives up it's "Jewish nationality" (a racist premise to begin with), it ceases to be predominantly Jewish. And god forbid that happens!..

"why this people wont stay at their hometown should be no problem i think." is a good question, but to Israelis it is brushed off as the equivalent of "can't we all just get along?".

Israel (like all nations) is built on myths and legend. You strip those away and you might just have to get along.

DVS: lol.. I'm sure he wasn't. I'm sure his mother loved him. Making him to be a one-sided coin- an entity of pure evil, just allows the myth to thrive- and then we don't learn a damn thing.

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1/11/09

Tali

and on that note: www.apenotmonkey.com/2008/08/10/hard-work/

1/11/09

what did we learn again?

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1/11/09

harleyblues

hum... that video is revolting and what, Israel isn't without fault?

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1/11/09

Tali

harleyblues: Try this one- it's a little more revolting but 10 times more educational:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MTqfYiuaG0&eurl
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ_gVkRjkTg&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=02svxSXkosI&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVh_NfIrsSM&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e4vDKSK58I&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtjLYT-HbSU&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcaMWsLe_3I&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzQ8a6kp_XY&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXoWpAqhBPs&feature=related

1/11/09

rfburnhertz: Do you have numbers for the Israeli rockets shot at that time frame? Do you have the numbers of how many civilians were shot, hit by dynamite, ran over by a D9? Beaten? Had their house demolished, only to have an Israeli settlement built over it- funded by the Israeli government (and where do you think Israel gets funding to do all this)?

How about the dead volunteers killed by Israeli fire? They were British and American- is that easier for you to relate to? You're a Christian man- Doesn't Christ teach compassion? I'm sorry, I think we lost our way in this debate. It's too intellectual- all these numbers and we loose sight of the human beings involved. The human beings living in Gaza are under a military occupation. The few months Israel was out of Gaza, there were "retaliation" bombings of Gaza almost every day. Now we're back in there full throttle, making up for lost time. Over 850 people killed in Gaza to date- notice at the beginning of this post it was 700. That was 2 days ago. 150 people in two days, in a population of a 1,500,000. I feel for our dead and wounded, It's no picnic on either side, but let's get real- my neighbor's kids play outside everyday. I sit here on the computer, talking to you. People are dying and you want to tell me violence is the answer?

Hamas should not be shooting rockets, but we shouldn't be occupying Gaza. And if you have riots from a population that you are occupying- you control their lives, you control their freedom- you sure as hell better check yourself.

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1/11/09

NewBlogger2008

Tali- In case you were not aware, Israel left Gaza about 4 years ago. The "occupation" Hamas is referring to is all of Israel. The Palestinians in Gaza were given a chance to show the world that they are not a bunch of terrorists, but they didn't. They blew it, big time. They elected Hamas who promptly began firing rockets at Israel and calling for their destruction.

1/11/09

Only after they were held under seige conditions for 5 months did they negate on the ceasefire. They couldn't rebuild their power station so they had to depend on Isreal for power. They weren't allowed to bring in food from outside, they do not have enough land to be self contained and grow crops.
Please can you give me a reasonable explanation as to why that happened.

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1/11/09

designcoolimagery

If you have iTunes please check Creativity's Top 5 Ads Episode43 under Video Podcast/Visual Arts. There is #3, heart breaking Ads by TBWA/MAP, Paris - Pain Without Borders: Stop Pain.
Probably that's all we wanted be aware of.

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1/11/09

NewBlogger2008: "In case you were not aware..."- you're doing it again- lay off! Personal attacks further no one.

As for "they blew it" I guess we can just blow them up for it, right?? Who made you judge, jury and mostly executioner? Wait, you don't have to tell me- your own country did. They put a rifle in your hand and sent you out to the slaughter, and you love them for it. (And in case you're not Israeli, now you know how the Israeli mind works.) Israel abuses its own citizens with conscription.

I know you didn't here me the first time, so I'll say it again: THE PALESTINIANS ARE UNDER CONSTANT MILITARY OCCUPATION FOR 40 YEARS. If you believe for a second that shit about Israeli having the most humane army in the world than you need to talk to some soldiers. They'll tell you what they did and some will even be proud of it. IF YOU HAVE RIOTS FROM A POPULATION THAT YOU ARE OCCUPYING- YOU CONTROL THEIR LIVES, YOU CONTROL THEIR FREEDOM- YOU SURE AS HELL BETTER CHECK YOURSELF.

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1/11/09