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The definitive proof of soul
Posted by harveyavatar • 8/20/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: life beyond bc, resurrection, soul
I still sense one or two people here are confused about soul,.. a notion which isn't religious in the least, since it was discovered by pagan Greeks 5 centuries BC for the Western world.
So this is what I explained to another BC member in a recent thread...
(Of course your soul leaves BC when you cease to be a member! For those who don't know what a soul is, it is what makes who you are even if you have two (or more) BC usernames.)
EmperessAch is your concrete mode of existence. You also have an abstract mode of existence: you are a Lady. I know you are a Lady because I have seen other ladies, which allows me to abstract this generic term. I could have also said you are a woman, but I like the idea of homing in on a finer generic description of you. Now, EmperessAch is not sitting behind her computer on the one hand, and Lady doing her curls on the other hand. It would be quite wrong to think so! EmperessAch and Lady describe the same reality (you) under two different angles - the concrete mode and the abstract mode. Now what unites these two modes of existence, and can be induced, is your substance, which is neither concrete nor abstract. Your substance is your soul. Your soul leaves BC, when your different usernames are deleted! (PS I am not suggesting EmperessAch has more than one BC username... lol)
Don't let this stop you from discussing soul!
In which (non religious) manner have you experienced your soul?
Do you think it is possible to lose your soul?
etc.
User Comments
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I'm still mightily confused.-
I understand. Let's see, your soul is, for example, if you have two different usernames, it is still you! Indeed, some people are persuaded that they live solely by their username, and if it is deleted, there is nothing beyond that. One must absolutely not tinker with their username, lest they have excruciating anguishes.
The soul is simply the principle of life - ie what comes first in the order of life. It is also the principle of Being, therefore substance, which answers the question what is Being beyond its abstract and concrete modes (eg AspotofBlog and woman).
We grasp a principle, one and unique, from the diversity of all vital acts, which we recognize as the source of life. Therefore, for each of us, to live is to exist, and there is an identity between our soul and our substance. But careful, because if you can determine your soul is your substance, you cannot conclude that sustance is the soul, else all that would exist would live... What unifies my being and my life is my soul. What animates my body and enables a diversity of vital operations is my soul. It is thus a source of being and life in me: it is my substance.
This may be a tad too much to munch on at this hour, but rest assured those who experiment their soul are simple, whereas those who do not grasp the principle of their being and life are complex, since what comes first - the principle - is simple, whereas what comes second is not.
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Your soul is mine!
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Oh, NO! Not Cary!! -
I'd like to see you get your hands on what is neither concrete nor abstract!
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Watch the videos. It is basically a how to guide on stealing souls
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HAHAHAHAHA This scared me especially after focusing so hard on the screen reading the thread's intro!
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LMFAO @Derek. Give Harvey one of your punishments!
@Harvey
I don't understand your theory about soul, but that is because I'm really dim. In my opinion, you can lose your soul while still alive, yes. You know that saying: '[It'll] steal your soul'?
Well, I've seen that happen to drug addicts. Everything they could've been, everything they once were (their authentic self), disappears in front of your eyes.
After a while the drug takes over their whole being and they become like machines - all they can think about is the drug and how to get their next hit. Nothing else matters. You look into their eyes and there is nothing. Absolutely no light. It's really scary when you see it.-
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flashbacks, flashbacks noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! -
did you have your soul stolen?
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My soul is mine! mwahahahahaha
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i have seen my soul. so i know it is real.
it was a traumatic experience that has made me drop a +100k income, a house, community i loved so i can tell you that when you see your soul, you don't forget it.-
Lolita,
I'd certainly be interested in hearing the circumstances which led you to see your soul.
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Harvey: I've thought this before, and it's not much of a comment, but I can't help wanting to shout out: you're so Aristotelian! That's...charming somehow.
When did you first encounter the Stagirite? It seems like a life long love?
Best,
Mal-
@Mal,
I have encountered thinkers who have followed the Stagirite down the path of realistic human thought - and even taken him further. I would not call myself Aristolian though, since human thought belongs to no one in particular.
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Harvey:
Agreed! I wasn't suggesting you were an epigone. Also, you're right: I was just writing something about how for Plato, one of the reasons he introduces the proposal of the philosopher King (which is not meant entirely seriously) is b/c of the idea that in the life of the mind a kind of perfect justice reigns: that is, everywhere else my good is potentially in conflict with your good: people need to look beyond their tendency to love their own things, in order to love the good of the city, or the good itself. But, as you imply, no one can be jealous or possessive about the truth. We might fight for honours, or for intellectual distinctions, but we can share the truth without resentment in a way that gives us a glimpse of the just city. Aristotle repeated Plato when he said that the basis of friendship was homonia: again, we can share the infinite goods of the mind perfectly and without jealousy.
Best,
-Mal-
Mal,
Nice. Most people are not interested in truth for it is not something they can possess. As for Aristolian ethics, it is grounded in friendship, which I am not sure most "exegets" have correctly understood.
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Harvey-I fear no definitive proof of soul will ever be definitive enough.-
NP,
I fully realize one can easily convince onself to have no soul. This is what ultimately happens when we diminish reality day after day.
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N.P.:
I agree with you. No definitive proofs outside of mathematics, and even there...
Getting a bit off topic, how are you so serene all the time? It's a mystery to me, but I'm glad for you. I often enjoy your Zen contributions to more pointlessly heated discussions.
Best,
-Mal-
Detachment would be the euphemistic way of putting it. But I'll use the more realistic term: indifference.
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I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE what u said in the op! EXACTLY!!!!
Hey did I mention that I loved ur explanation of soul.-
Check it out, create another username or email account, you will still be you!
Will have to get back to this thread at a later time... -
Yes,but I wouldn't be me to u
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Holly,
If you had a radical facelift, I could still recognize you through your eyes, which are the windows to your soul. In the same vein, if you posted under a different username, I could most probably recoginze you through your typing, which is the pulse of your BC soul -
No u couldn't
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I don't really know what to believe in. Maybe I should start believing in myself?
I'm not going to pretend that I understand Life and what the soul is about.
I do know that I'll constantly question, without expecting an answer. It's in my nature to question. Maybe the answer is within myself, or maybe only upon death, or maybe never. I'm fine with that.-
I wish I was.
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aspotofblog:
Your attitude is definitely the right one. Awareness of ignorance is maybe the closest thing we have to knowledge. That's what I love about philosophy: it's not SAGACITY, it's not the claim to knowledge, it's the claim to being a lover of knowledge. Just as love isn't always reciprocated, the beloved of philosophy (a girl named Sophia) is incredibly elusive. She also has a lot of suitors.
But if you realise that you don't know (about life and the soul), but you're still fascinated that makes you a suitor. And for the moment, there's no one strong enough to bend the bow of Odysseus and get rid of all the other suitors. Not even Plato.
Best,
Mal. -
You mean Pat Boone isn't the answer to a question regarding "definitive proof of soul?" -
No, dear, that's James Brown. -
I think its aretha
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Except for rapist or murderers. I think they are the parasites of humanity,stealing our resources to further their evil intent. I think all souls have to have some good in them and monsters who rape and murder are pure evil.therefore they are mere shells.
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I dont think I could lose my soul because it is what I am, it is what inhabits this female body of mine.To me the soul is "the I am" of any person. I heard someone say you are a soul, you dont have a soul.-
"To me the soul is "the I am" of a person."
Stella: Beautifully expressed. -
Stella,
It seems you have grasped your soul as principle of Being. We usually grasp our soul as a principle of life ("I live") as it is connatural to our internal life.
For us, to live is to exist, and to exist is to live. Therefore, our substance (what comes first in the order of Being) is our soul.
Having a direct affective knowledge of our soul is as much an advantage as an inonvenience. As we can take a great liking to our soul, it is possible to never leave it to reach substance - i.e. to never abandon the viewpoint of the living to switch to the viewpoint of Being. In fact, this is what characterizes most any neoplatonian.
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Wrong spot see above...2 long 2 edit
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Yes, I think it is possible to lose your soul. I lost my soul when I was addicted to heroin. Addiction robs one of their best qualities and brings into focus one's worst qualities. Heroin addiction ate away at my soul until there was nothing left--I was absolutely barren the day I entered the Freedom House.
But you can regain your soul--and I believe I have been on the journey of regaining my soul. It's been quite a journey. -
It depends do we need the soul to interact, store personality traits, and memories?. I think we can allow other influences to over take our awareness, but the soul is deep inside. We call this willpower!-
Intelligence and will are the two "potencies" which "emanate" from the soul.
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I believe you can loose your soul to,but I wonder if rapist and murders can truely get their's back. I know GOD says he forgives everything,but how can you forgive evil?
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*lose* your soul.
One's pants might be getting *loose*. In that case, they *lost* weight. However, if someone's pants are getting *loose* it might be time to *lose* some weight.
As a person will *lose* their soul.
Filed under commonly confused spellings of commonly used words. -
Thank You Melinda!
That is one of my pet spelling peeves! -
thank u
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I know you're not supposed to question GOD,but how can true evil be forgiven and allowed into heaven.
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Because evil is a good against your good.
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don't understand your answer
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What I'm saying is that someone will think what they do is good will you think its bad, And you think that what is good is universally good, when it may be ignorance and lack of understanding. But about the rape and murder, these people are sick with a twisted version of good. Is this clearer?
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Jamber,
Indeed, those who do "evil" generally focus on an inferior good, although certain individuals are just purely evil. -
Everyone even the murderers and rapist know that their "good" is evil
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But they do these things because they feel good. Some where inside there is a good, or revenged feeling satisfied.
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right,but that person still knows what feels good to him is EVIL,BAD
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There maybe a universal standard that all humans find evil, if so your correct! Which I believe there is one.
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yea,me to
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maybe I shoudn't get off topic on this one huh?
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Hmmm,not really. You just said those people are sick. I don't think they are sick I think they are evil...
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oh wrong time.. how did i missed this...anyways will join later.... -
Silly
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hey the intro of this thread is too heavy...but here is what i have to say
yes, I believe in souls and the existence of the higher self, which has all the knowledge and turns to come to earth, through incarnation & re-incarnation because wisdom may only be achieved by experiencing...knowing isn't enough
one can loose the soul in the symbolic sense...by doing everything that goes against their soul's objective and by letting their conscious mind take over their inner self completely. in the literal self, there isn't any way of loosing the soul since then the body would not live anymore, which was the host to the respective soul...soul is energy and it can't be destroyed but yet be split to exist at many different areas at the same time
hope that makes sense to some -
OP too heavy? - I guess you won't be getting into Aristole's Zeta book of metaphysics then...
I'm with you on the last paragraph. By diminishing reality day in and day out, you can end up convincing yourself you have the soul of a hog.
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@harveyavatar actually I didn't mean to offend you but I lost you somewhere in that introduction...though the essence of the question was quite clear
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@minalthukral,
No worries, these things aren't so easy to grasp on the run, but the induction of substance (answer to the question what is Being as Being?) is how you reach soul in the order of Being.
It's easier to grasp soul internally/affectively, but this has often lead to not going beyond the order of life, since for us to live is exist, and vice versa.
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Makes sense,makes no sense
Does that make sense -
Harvey - that which we are... We are.
I may call it a soul - you... you may call it the INDIVIDUAL UNIQUE PERSONALITY... - or that which you ARE.
As in you live, you breathe - but that which makes you think - that which makes you contemplate - that which makes you "FEEL" emotion...
That is what is considered the "SOUL".
The Essence. The very being.
Does it need definitive proof?
No.
Why?
Because it is.
It exists and EVERYONE has this "soul" - this existence - if they exist at all.-
@Wagerwitch,
Yes I agree with what you say. Indeed, soul can be induced from our different vital operations (breathing, thinking, etc.). Here we are in the order of life.
Philosophically speaking, though, essence answers the question "what is it" - i.e. intelligibility. Your intelligibility, for example, is to be a woman - it is your abstract mode of existence.
You also have a concrete mode of existence - WagerWitch
In the order of being, through induction, what unites your concrete and abstract modes of existence, and is therefore neither concrete nor abstract, is your substance/soul.
Tadah! -
Hmmm I dunno if "intelligibility" is meant on the asertation that I am a woman... Because that is, indeed, an OBVIOUS physical fact.
LOL!
I mean - most women or men are OBVIOUSLY women or men.
But we do have genetic, social and emotional influences that make us more so male/female.
But - if what you're trying to say is this:
We have What is inside of us that is the soul (or what we call the individual thought/mind/person/individuality)
We have what we display:
In person with others
In person with ourselves alone
Online with others
Online for others
Online for ourselves
In effect - we have:
What we display (who we are as observed by others or through our own eyes) as a "peronna"...
And we have what we are as substance individuality (what creates our personna).
Our personna or personality can change based on our output of content - but that becomes and observable quantity - therefor it is something that can be measured or observed by others.
So in effect:
WagerWitch is ME
WagerWitch is an online personna
Without WagerWitch Online - I am still me
For me - who I am online - is who I am offline and any other time minus the physical characteristics.
For others - it is up to the individual.
However - My soul - my individuality - is who I am.
And because I am a woman - it is a part of who I am.
And because I am who I am - I have become the online personna WagerWitch which represents my offline characteristics ONLINE.
Ha ha ha
Ta dah - back atcha
*grin*
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The soul is a metaphor, a poetic term. It makes a kind of figurative sense, but not a literal one.
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Nothingprodfound,
I will agree to disagree here. The soul can neither be figured nor conceptualized.
Every one gets his concrete mode of existence (eg NP) and his abstract mode of existence (man) as both can be more or less described, but few go to where you can no longer figure things - so they don't attain Being (as being)... which is neither concrete nor abstract. Intelligence often balks at a radical induction for lack of image or representation.
As first principle in the order of existence, substance/soul is well and truly at the heart of reality. -
Harvey-I feel in a way we're agreeing but distinctively. We're both saying being, ultimate reality (if it exists?), is beyond representation by image or word.
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Indeed!
"Ultimate reality" must exist, else how could a singular being and an abstract being describe the exact same reality (NP; man). There must be something upstream of the concrete and the abstract which ties these two modes of existence together.
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The soul is an interesting subject. The avid Atheist in me tends to say NOOOOO, it's full of BULLSH*T. But if you're not relating you soul to the thing that will live forever (which is loony) then it becomes very interesting. The way I see it, there is possible room in my logical, science-based life for a soul to exist.
For example. Your mind. You mind can (it would seem) think about itself abstractly. Like I'm doing now. Similarly, we are still struggling to understand the intense intricacies of the brain - leading to a question: How can the brain not know everything about itself? For me this conjures up the possibility of a soul. Perhaps it is in fact the soul that looks upon the brain but does not understand completely, because it isn't the brain, it's something outside.
I'm twisting around in circles a bit, I hope you understand what I'm trying disparately to say...-
There is no more evidence of the existence of a "mind" as there is of a soul.
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Depends on whose mind yer talkin on...
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WW, are you stalking me today? Watch out, I might end up liking it.
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Mebbe... *grin*
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Iratedog,
The soul is not a religious "concept".
Unfortunately, I'm a bit short on time presently to develop from your thoughts on mind/soul.
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One night I was meditating. someone had put a candle on a raised stool. I was looking at at the flame for some 15 minutes and I was trying to get past the flame without moving a muscle. I strained and strained but nothing happened for a long time. then for an instant it felt like I merged with the flame. then I could see something strange... I could see me. I could see my face and my body still staring at the flame. I was scarred. I thought I was dead. The world started to rotate. and then.. and then ... some one shouted out ...stop mumbling in your sleep idiot.
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