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The PETA Principle
Posted by nothingprofound • 7/01/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: peta/child-rearing/principle/
Combining what I learned from the PETA thread and the one on spanking children I came up with:
The PETA Principle: intolerance in the name of a good cause is still intolerance.
What do you think?
User Comments
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I think it depends on what is being labeled as intolerance.
Standing up for one's beliefs and/or opinions is certainly not intolerance in and of itself. Being active is also not intolerance.
Lumping large groups of people into tiny little categories in the most unflattering way possible simply because the group is either not understood or has an opposing viewpoint? That's intolerance.
Every group has two or three subgroups in it which complicates the group's overall message. You have the moderate folks - who understand both sides of most arguments, and usually act as peacekeepers most of the time. you have the extreme sides of the group who want to always take everything to the next level - be it direct action, or labeling everything as something bad/good regardless of information that says others. Sometimes there is only one extreme group, sometimes two opposing ones.
In any case, it's the more extreme ones that tend to ruin the PR for everyone else. They are the ones that often come across as intolerant because after a while, they become a bit militant and resistent to new ideas, data, or interjection of a little understanding. -
PETA is a joke...it's ok to assault people with paint, etc. but not ok to assault an animal. They are the first step towards legalizing bestiality. Yuck! Putting animal's right before people's rights! Yuck!-
PETA does not and has never condoned the destruction of private property or the assault of people.
The whole "paint on the coat thing" isn't real.
*rolls eyes* -
of course they don't VERBALLY condone assaulting people or destroy private property but their actions say otherwise. are you one of those people who believes the holocaust isn't real also? do i really need to show you the endless news articles and video footage to prove my point? as for the eye rolling; when people roll their eyes their bound to not see what's going on; better yet why don't you cover your eyes with your hands.
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And here is exactly what we are talking about - intolerance. You have lumped an entire organization - and the many good things it has done - in with the actions of a few people who are over the top.
And all the while claiming "well they don't let anyone know they condone it..." as if there is some violent conspiracy brewing below the surface. I used to get newsletters and packets from PETA - I was never secretly instructed to throw paint on people, steal, hack, or assault people. None of the DVD's they sent me had secret messages or subliminal commands encouraging violence.
*rolls eyes* - yep - I roll my eyes at wild accusations and massive generalizations. -
Anok,
it may be a rare occurrence and PETA may not be responsible for it when it happens, but it does happen. I witnessed it in Portland, Or just last summer.
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They have to be disgusting. It's in their rule list thingy.
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I sometimes wonder if PETA's secretly funded by the fur, pharmaceutical, and meat industries. I mean, could they possibly do a better job of making people who care about animals look like misanthropic, racist, sexist, wackos? -
Right, that's what I'm wondering. Can a person go too far in defending their principles? Even if they're good principles?
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Absolutely.
You have animal rights activists that consider even pet ownership as a form of animal abuse, feminists who believe that ever sexual act is a form of rape, child advocates who have good parents worried that they will be suspect for abuse or molestation because they washed their child's privates during a bath, pro-lifers who bomb clinics and shoot doctors, religious zealots who harm themselves or others by the extreme practice of their beliefs, anything you can think of has it's group of extremists.
That doesn't mean that the causes themselves in moderate form are bad or worthless. It just means that some people go waaay too far with it. -
It's true. When you get to a certain fringe of animal activism, they do believe pet ownership is abuse. SiuilARuin actually believes that pet ownership is a form of abuse. I think it's too late to undo thousands of years of domestication. We should keep our pets, but we should definitely spay and neuter to prevent unwanted breeding leading to pet overpopulation. -
hey, don't lump me in with the kinds of people who kill doctors!
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Right. And by doing that they alienate and offend people who might otherwise be sympathetic to their cause. I saw this in the 60s. The behavior of my generation, with all its great love of freedom and its idealism, through its excesses, really turned a lot of people off.
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I think that sometimes extremist activities/ideologies are just what is needed - but not all the time. Sometimes you need that great big shock to push people, but as we are seeing in our society today, everything has become the next biggest shock factor, rendering very few things that are actually shocking.
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Some things are worthy of intolerance-
Yes, but which things? And who decides?
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I send money to PETA every month.. I choose to give it to them instead of the ASPCA because I know PETA will use it more wisely (on RPGs, not paperwork)
I want to kill people who force-feed ducks and make cows live in their own filth. I want them to feel the pain themselves - I don't care if it doesn't work to make the world a better place, but someone needs to answer for the crimes against animals. PETA has shown me that they have no shame - they will throw blood on your fur coat right on camera. They will let you know it was them and go to jail willingly in order to 'peacefully' protest. The ALF (Animal liberation front) works with PETA, they are the 'black ops' divison that does the dirty work, but they are not legally connected to eachother, PETA claims it is not ALF - See, we can play games too!
Of course they are NUTS - that's why they get my money every month. I want it to go towards illegal actions that I can't perform myself - I know it'll get used for a good cause in PETAs hands.-
ALF does not work for PETA.
Jesus people - will you get a grip? PETA is not a terrorist organization that regularly breaks the law or throws paint at people.
Christ. -
"I want to kill people who force-feed ducks and make cows live in their own filth. I want them to feel the pain themselves - I don't care if it doesn't work to make the world a better place ..."
then you are no better then them.
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Yes, PETA believes that euthanasia of unadoptable animals is more humane than letting them rot to death in cages.
Why is this such an issue? That's the most reasonable animals rights position I've ever seen! -
Anok, by their own admission PETA killed more than 97% of the animals that came into their care in a single year, while a "traditional" shelter only 4 miles away killed less than 40%. That tells me that PETA was killing adoptable animals because of a lack of effort on their part...for one thing, the PETA shelter does not have visiting hours where the public can come view their animals for possible adoption.
PETA kills animals...not just sickly or terminally ill animals as Ingrid Newkirk claimed after PETA was severely criticized for their "kill 'em all" philosophy, but perfectly healthy, adoptable animals for which they make NO EFFORT to rehome.
I don't buy this argument about killing them is kinder. PETA officials who make this claim are lying hypocrites because they are against pet ownership in the first place...they kill the animals because they would rather see them dead than "enslaved." Yah, like my little Yorkie, who sleeps in my bed and is adored by everyone who meets her is enslaved...more like she has enslaved us!
If PETA really had the ethical treatment of animals at heart, then they would 1) be proactive in their attempts to find new homes for animals left in their care and 2) provide those that don't find new homes with enriched environments, human companionship by their staff, and home-like conditions. It CAN be done...it is being successfully done by DogTown in Arizona. Instead, PETA just kills them...often in their van in front of the homes where the collect a pet that the owners think is going to be compassionately treated until it can be rehomed.
PETA is EVIL. -
You know, you can't win fer losin'. They get slammed for being cruel because they don't allow the euthanasia of animals, but then they get slammed because they DO condone it. You can't have it both ways. I've read the links you gave me, I've read other op-ed pecies both for an against PETA - I've read the PETA website itself.
PETA is not against pet ownership at all - where you got that I don't know. They have a whole website dedicated solely to responsible pet ownsership and pet adoption help. They have worked to stop puppy and other pet mills from being in business, and have helped pet adoption and humane society agencies set up shop in place of the breeders. Obviously they don't hate pet ownership or even oppose it. They encourage it.
From what i have read the animals that they get were not adoptable. WHen a no kill shelter cannot adopt out an animal, they must transfer the animal to another shelter. These animals are almost always transfered to a kill shelter. PETA takes a lot of these animals in, and does what they can. They euthanize the rest.
More rheteoric, more propaganda.
I'm beginning to think that the people who oppose PETA are actually worse than the members of PETA in extremist views. -
From Ingrid Newkirk herself:
www.activistcash.com/biography_quotes.cfm/bid/456
“The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats... If people want toys, they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship, they should seek it with their own kind.”
— Animals, May 1993
“Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation.”
— Harper's, Aug 1988
...we would no longer allow breeding. People could not create different breeds. There would be no pet shops. If people had companion animals in their homes, those animals would have to be refugees from the animal shelters and the streets. You would have a protective relationship with them just as you would with an orphaned child. But as the surplus of cats and dogs (artificially engineered by centuries of forced breeding) declined, eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return to a more symbiotic relationship – enjoyment at a distance.”
— The Harper's Forum Book, Jack Hitt, ed., 1989, p.223
www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474976761013
"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about
by human manipulation." -- Ingrid Newkirk national director,
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA)
"In a perfect world, all other than human animals would be free
of human interference, and dogs and cats would be part of the
ecological scheme." --PeTA's Statement on Companion Animals.
"The bottom line is that people don't have the right to
manipulate or to breed dogs and cats ... If people want toys,
they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship,
they should seek it with their own kind," -- Ingrid Newkirk,
national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
"You don't have to own squirrels and starlings to get enjoyment
from them ... One day, we would like an end to pet shops and the
breeding of animals. [Dogs] would pursue their natural lives in
the wild .. they would have full lives, ," -- Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
“There is no hidden agenda. If anybody wonders about -- what’s this with all these reforms -- you can hear us clearly. Our goal is total animal liberation. [emphasis added]”
— “Animal Rights 2002” convention, Jun 2002
Just go to Google, put in "Ingrid Newkirk" quotes and hit the return key.
Take what you read of their website with a HUGE grain of salt...rather look for non-PETA supplied direct quotes of Newkirk over the years if you want the truth.
The truth is, PETA is EVIL -
The very quotes you provided talks about not supporting the overbreeding of pets buy purchasing from pet mills. It talks about adopting instead of buying from breeders - because you want a COMPANION - not a toy or status symbol.
More pets are purchased and abandoned on the doorstep of shelters because the people who bought them had little regard for what responsible pet ownership actually is. They buy the puppy because the kid thought it was cute - without so much as a thought as to what they were buying, from where, or if they could actually take care of it.
Did you not read the quotes you provided, or did you only glean what you wanted to hear?
How is support of adoption of animals as companion pets evil? How is condemnation of pet mills and irresponsible pet ownership evil?
The humane societies say the exact same things as PETA - you don't buy a pet because you want a toy. you don't buy a pet because you want to have the little dog in the purse status symbol. You don't buy a pet you can't take care of. They say you should adopt the millions of pets who have been abandoned by irresponsible owners. They advise that you research the breed(s) that you are adopting, and make sure that you, your children, and your other pets are compatible with the pet you are trying to adopt.
How on earth is that evil?
Because of PETA working with the humane societies here, we no longer have pet mill stores, and the shelters now have a much higher adoption rate. (The shelters now use the previous pet stores as adoption centers - thus creating a greater outreach) That means that feral and abandoned animals on the streets are at an all time low here - and responsible pet ownership is on the rise.
I'll stand by what I said above - the criticisms of PETA that are based on rhetoric and propaganda is worse than anything PETA has done - and far more extreme.
I don't agree with everything PETA stands for, nor all of their tactics, but I will not ignore all of the good things they have done just so I can say "I hate PETA" or "PETA is a terrorist organization" or "PETA is evil".
It's too much. They've done a lot of good, even if you don't agree with everything they do 100%.
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I don't know, Anok. I think that's a dangerous position. Which extremist ideologies? Any bunch of loonies can use that as an excuse to force their way of life on to someone else.
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I'm thinking of things more revolutionary in nature. Fights for freedoms against oppressions, that sort of thing. Revolution is extreme, but so too are many of the oppressions that revolutionaries fight against.
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7 things you don't know about PETA. www.petakillsanimals.com/article_detail.cfm?article=134
www.nokillnow.com/PETAfreerepubEmployeesProctor.htm
PETA Employees Face 31 Felony Animal-Cruelty Charges for Killing, Dumping Dogs
Center For Consumer Freedom Has Warned “Ethical Treatment Of Animals” Workers Routinely Kill Animals
Ahoskie, NC – Last night, one month after the launch of www.PetaKillsAnimals.com, two employees of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) were arrested on 31 felony animal-cruelty charges for killing and disposing of dogs and puppies in a dumpster. Today the Center for Consumer Freedom is calling on Americans to stop making donations to support PETA and its grim-reaper program. When Ahoskie police arrested PETA employees Andrew Cook and Adria Hinkle last night, they found 18 dead dogs in a nearby shopping-center dumpster (including a bag containing seven dead puppies), and 13 more dead dogs in the PETA-owned van the two were driving. Police observed them throwing several dark-colored bags into the dumpster before the arrests were made.
This is not the first public mention of PETA’s large-scale euthanasia program. In May 2005 the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) unveiled a giant Times Square billboard and a new website (www.PetaKillsAnimals.com). CCF had obtained official records from the state of Virginia showing the militant animal-rights group had put over 10,000 dogs and cats to death since 1998.
In 2003 PETA euthanized over 85 percent of the animals it took in, finding adoptive homes for just 14 percent. By comparison, the Norfolk SPCA found adoptive homes for 73 percent of its animals and the Virginia Beach SPCA adopted out 66 percent. PETA’s required report documenting its 2004 record is currently over 4 weeks late.
A Bertie County (NC) Deputy Sheriff told The Roanoke-Chowan News-Herald that Cook and Hinkle assured the Bertie Animal Shelter “they were picking up the dogs to take them back to Norfolk where they would find them good homes.” Pittman added that persons identifying themselves as PETA representatives have picked up live dogs from that shelter during the last two months.
“This is disturbing behavior on the part of self-professed animal lovers, and I hope the public takes notice,” said Center for Consumer Freedom Director of Research David Martosko. “PETA raked in nearly $29 million last year alone, but apparently it couldn’t spare any money to care for the flesh-and-blood animals entrusted to its employees. It’s ironic -- If anyone else were caught red-handed with 31 dead dogs, PETA would be holding a press conference to denounce them.”
Martosko added: “Last month when we launched PetaKillsAnimals.com, we warned the public that PETA was not the warm and kind group it claimed to be. Now it’s clearer than ever that Americans who truly want to help animals should donate to their local animal shelter, not to PETA.”
The Center for Consumer Freedom is a nonprofit coalition supported by restaurants, food companies, and consumers, working together to promote personal responsibility and protect consumer choices.
For media comment, contact our media department at 202-463-7112 ext. 133
Read this article...it is chilling. Here is an excerpt: A former PETA employee told a reporter: "a teary-eyed man showed up at PETA headquarters one day with his beloved pet rabbit. The man had grown old and sick and was no longer able to care properly for his friend. He supplied a cage, bed, toys, and even vet records for this pet. He was assured by PETA workers that they would take "good care" of his rabbit and find him a home. The man left distraught but no doubt believing that his friend would be able to live out the rest of his life in a loving, compassionate home...PETA workers carried him to the 'death house' immediately and ended his life!" The employee said there are many similar examples. 1
Former director of Norfolk's SPCA, Dana Cheek, wrote "I often receive phone calls from frantic people who have surrendered their pets to PETA with the understanding that PETA will "find them a good home...Little do they know that the pets are killed in the PETA van before they even pull away from the pet owner's home."
www.nokillnow.com/PETAIngridNewkirkResign.htm
PETA is EVIL-
Oh dear - like I said - you can't win fer losin'. The mass hysteria that they are running a death camp for pets is ludicrous. "They kill them before they even leave the property!!!"
PETA gets slammed for treating pets better than humans, and in the same breath gets slammed for running animal death camps and animal cruelty. Which is it?
The employees improperly dumped dead animals. They were charged.
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8255324
PETA President Ingrid Newkirk said the workers were picking up animals to be brought to PETA headquarters for euthanization.
The two employees were charged with illegal dumping, and released. Two employees. I guess if two employees of an organization are charged with say - the illegal use of charity funds then the whole organization is bad?
lonestartimes.com/2005/10/17/update-peta-employees-charged-with-animal-crue...
Apparently there was some trouble with the criminal charges, which had to be re-done. According to this story the employees:
…were served with warrants on 22 felony charges of animal cruelty and the three felony charges of obtaining property by false pretense in court on Friday.
The new animal cruelty charges replaced 31 previous animal cruelty charges, which were dismissed.
The two employees are still charged with eight misdemeanor counts of illegal disposal of dead animals and one count of trespassing.
www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/dec05/051201e.asp
ook and Hinkle were charged in June with 31 counts of animal cruelty and eight misdemeanor counts of illegal disposal of dead animals. The felony charges were dismissed and new charges filed after an investigation led to new information, however. The misdemeanor charges still stand.
Pentobarbital was reportedly used to euthanatize the dogs and cats. Additionally, the PETA employees promised an Ahoskie veterinarian they would find new homes for three cats, but they euthanatized them instead.
The dogs and cats were from animal shelters in two nearby counties. Cook and Hinkle had reportedly been picking up animals in northeastern North Carolina since 2001 to be euthanatized at the Norfolk headquarters of the animal rights organization.
They were being picked up for euthanization!! The shelters they were picking up from had been doing that for years!!!
My god the hysteria over this is overwhelming me.
Christ.
One of the articles from the nokill site you reference talks about how PETA is a last stop for animals - and how shelters bring animals to PETA for euthanisation because they do it by injection. And that is exactly what they were doing, even if they did lie about 3 of the cats - and illegally dumped the animals (which is what they were actually charged with).
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have to think
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Use Google. Ingrid Newkirk is the founder and president...Google her. Try to find objective sites that simply quote her rather than those that have an agenda. Read what SHE has had to say...not on the PETA website as that is equally biased but in the other direction. Read what she has said in press conferences, in articles, in speeches...read what she herself has said.
I did two weeks of solid research on the organization. I started out with the attitude that I didn't like their tactics, but they were helping animals. I came away horrified, dismayed, disgusted. I love animals...in the past five years I have had five dogs, all but one of them rescued unwanted animals. The thought that these precious creatures would be cruelly killed and tossed into a dumpster by people who claim to love animals without even giving people like me a chance to bring them to new homes left me in tears.
I found a site that showed a bunch of pictures of beautiful dogs and puppies that had been killed and thrown in dumpsters by PETA. Not a one of them looked to be ill or undernourished...indeed several of them looked sleek, well-fed and well-groomed. PETA had killed them without even making an effort to find them new homes! I'm still trying to find that site again and when I do, I'll post the link.
This organization is pure EVIL -
SV do you have any idea how absurd that all sounds?
On the one hand you have people claiming that they are so radical in their animal rights activities that they won't even condone the owning of pets, then you have a website dedicated to the education of pet owners, adoption help, and animal rights actions against animals cruelty factory farms - but all of that is just a front. The real objective is to kill every animal they get their hands on....
Complete lunacy!
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I think it all comes down to people understanding the difference between FACT and OPINION. Everyone is entiteled to their opinions, beleifs, standards etc. Those are your own, to live your life by and abide by according to your own structure of values. FACTS are black and white. Facts are what the law states to be true, or what science has proven to be true or what calulates down to one solid truth. The earth is round. Period. But if someone wants to beleive that it's a hectogon...more power to them. Intollorance would be for me to call that person, believing the world to be hectogon, an idiot and spite them for speaking their opinion. Instead I say, "Thats what you feel, and I respect that." And in return that person should respect my view as well.
But here on BC, that dosen't always happen...so..it is what it is.-
I agree, Lotusb. And even facts keep changing, as experience and science uncover more examples and possibilities. So one should be humble in one's assertions, no matter how true one might think them to be.
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People Eating Taste Animals.
My one question about them is this: How in the hell do they think they got here. Their relatives of the past did not go with out meat and they used fur, and leather to stay alive. They ate every part of the animal and used what could not be used. I would have loved to see a vegaterian make it when they settled this country.
On another note no I do not judge someomnes personal belifes if they want to think something that is wrong then go for it and be happy in doing so. When you find out you were wrong I will be here for you to cry on my shoulder.-
I suppose their argument here would be that eating/wearing animals out of neccesity is one thing, while doing so for recreation is another. I say recreation because in comparison, eating a steak when you have plenty of other options...or wearing a leather coat when you could wear a wool one...is out of choice, not limited means.
Personally, I'm a vegetarian for safty reasons, but wear fur and I dare anyone to judge me for it...
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Many vegetarians and vegans who support animal rights actually concentrate on animal cruelty. Hunting in the wild for survival is NOT animal cruelty (even if a few would rather starve than eat an animal - common sense is wide spread among us). Rasing some animals for personal survival is not animal cruelty.
Factory farms that torture the animals before killing them for the purpose of making a profit is what the issue is. By going Veg-head you can boycott the industries that engage in that kind of cruelty. No on is clueless as to how our ancestors survived. What they are is aware of how we live today, and how it has nothing to do with survival.
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Also, personally I don't like PETA. I have never looked into them deeply or anything, but they use naked celebs in their ads to grab attention, force their opinions on people, throw paint on people's clothing, send hate mail to ANYONE...even the President...I mean...I think they have kind of become some kind of cult...a little much for my taste. Just provide information and promote the health and fair treatment of animals..no need to get nasty.
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Again, PETA does not assault people - and I have never ever received hate mail or threatening mail from PETA - nor have I heard of such an activity occurring.
ALF on the other hand.... -
Well, I was referring to celebrities getting letters.
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I think people just go wacko with their causes and beliefs and think everyone's evil or stupid or insane who doesn't agree with them 100%.
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Well I think in part, in order for a cause or belief to be and feel solidified it has to be felt whole-heartedly. So when somone's views oppose that, some people's own insecurities cause them to defend it instead of accepting that not everyone shares their views. I think if people learn to be more confident in their views as well as tollorant, things might be better for everyone.
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Exactly. It's the difference between people holding opinions and their opinions holding them. Personally, I have learned a lot from this forum and I have changed my outlook in many ways. This discussion has made me more tolerant. Somebody once said" "Pray you lose every argument because only then will you have learned something."
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- Exactly. It's the difference between people holding opinions and their opinions holding them.
A belief is not an idea held by the mind; it is an idea that holds the mind.
I can share the belief that animals are abused and the abuse must stop. I can share it not only because I have seen the videos but also because I have seen such treatment in factory farms with my own eyes.
I can use every peaceful means available to protest the way animals are being treated and to advocate for change, but I will not cross the line like ALF members do.
Here is a link to an undercover an video for those who are unaware of how the animals that become the meat they eat are abused and even tortured prior to slaughtering: www.vegansoapbox.com/iowa-pig-factory-2008/
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Part of the problem with extreme activism is the fact that it has worked in the past. The Suffragettes were militant and much criticised by the Suffragists because they appeared to give the women's rights movement a bad name. And how about Nelson Mandela? He blew up buildings and is now considered to be a hero.
The PETA people probably class themselves in the same vein as these activists because they are fighting against what they consider to be a violent oppression of the rights of animals. However, I don't think it is the same for the simple fact that animals can't speak for themselves so the point they are trying to get across is not self-evident. If they want to convince people they first have to inform them of the facts, not start off with militant campaigning. -
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Other than creating awareness of animal cruelty does peta actually do anything to help animals ?
Ducks Unlimited actually create tangible projects that have helped increase wildlife and their habitat...
Peta collects money but does very little with it other than wasting it on administration etc. -
If I had a shoe horn I would jump in here. Doesn't seem to be much room. -
Well half of PETA is already covered in scene kids following the footsteps of their beloved band members (that's how they attract kids in the first place). And I'm not sure how much help they can be unless they're already in college demanding some kind of a vegetarian option. Other than that, I'm not sure it's a very wise decision to let PETA become the first stop if you're becoming a vegetarian. As for me, hells yeah meat. But I have friends who are pretty hardcore and are into all that crying over PETA and animals stuff, and I haven't seem them take an active role in their cause, only eating fake meat and slowly losing their minds.
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