Discussions
Two Girls, One Cup, and Your Kids
Posted by MadameX • 3/06/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: internet porn, parenting, two girls one cup
Last week, I traveled across the country with a group of really great kids aged 11-14. What they knew made my blood run cold. I know I'm more conservative than a lot of people here, but somehow 12-year-olds watching "Two Girls, One Cup" seems a lot more damaging than the old days of sneaking a peak at Playboy.
whatswrongaroundus.blogspot.com/2009/03/two-girls-one-cup-and-your-kids.htm...
What kind of impact will early exposure to images like that have on the development of our kids' sexuality?
And what can we do about it?
User Comments
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I'm very conservative, too. Our kids don't watch too much tv, and they access the internet in a limited fashion. I've heard of too many reports lately that link the language and images kids see to high risk behaviors.
I guess you could say we're boring, but happy.-
If protecting your kids from this kind of vulgarity is "boring"...may we all be so dull!
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Interesting article, MadameX. I hadn't heard of Two Girls, One Cup (and I'm sorry I learned about it now).
I work with children with extreme behavioral problems--so I see the worst consequences of maladaptive parenting and a poor home environment. And really, this is where the danger lies with this type of thing. Kids who don't have the type of support they need at home are at high risk for negative effects of this type of thing.
For some (particularly girls with poor self-esteem), being exposed to this type of media can have powerfully negative effects--about themselves and their sexuality. Young girls can take a look at this stuff and believe that this is accepted behavior for women and so they grow up, allowing themselves to be objectified and abused by others.
However, I also know that a good home environment can go a long way in protecting a child--even children who see this type of trash (and other things also). What we have learned is that the morals and values a child is raised with overrride the negative influences of the media. So, I would say that for parents who do a good job of raising their kids--they are at low risk for having a child develop real problems from seeing something like this.
But of course, there are a lot of neglectful and even abusive parents out there, unfortunately.-
Thanks for the thoughtful response, Melinda. I'd be interested in your take on one specific concern I have about this, which is the possibility that adolescents who are just exploring their sexuality and really haven't been exposed to much explicit information/images are going to look at something like this and think that's what sex is about. It seems to me inevitable that adolescent boys looking at something like this are going to be aroused even if/while they are also revolted...what kind of programming does that create?
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@MadameX--that is most definitely a valid concern. But I really believe that in this day and age, all parents need to have frank talks with their children about sexuality. I mean, a really detailed talk.
What I know is this--a lot of women who have been sexually abused by their partners as adults were victims of just what you said--they thought perverse, abusive acts were actually expected parts of female sexuality. So, that is a legitimate fear.
These days, parents have to talk to their kids about sex--it's absolutely imperative. Even though it is difficult to do--believe me, if kids don't hear about sexuality at home, they will most definitley learn about it from the Internet, their peers, and other sources.
I actuallyt heard this from a 13 year old girl last Friday. She said, "You can't get pregnant the first time you have sex because your hyman protects you." She really believed that and was shocked when I told her otherwise.
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I'm so glad my curiosity doesn't extend so far that I need to see that video.
Kinda sick when you think that one day the only thing left to shock people with will be snuff films.-
Me too, letters. Reading the description told me FAR more than I wanted to know.
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I did read your blog post and I know this is a pathetic comment that adds nothing to the discussion. I did not click through to the video because the description was sickening. And I have nothing constructive to suggest.-
TT, the link in my post doesn't lead to the video--it leads to the detailed description on Wikipedia.
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I don't need to know any more
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As disgusting as this video is I don't think it could actually normalise that sort of thing or turn anyone onto to that sort of thing that hasn't already got some sort of predisposition to that kink.
I'm not entirely certain I'm right but I think sexual kinks are formed much earlier than adolescence. I think the kids that have seen this thing view it more like a horror film than anything sexual.
But do I agree it's worrying that kids can get their hands on that sort of thing.-
Well, it's not that young girls would be inclined to do that--it's more along the lines that it is okay to ask women to do disgusting things for the sake of sexuality. This is a real possibility--that it can give young girls a very warped view of what sexual relationships are about.
So, it's not that they would be inclined to want to do this--but they would be able to be pressured into doing such things. And there are a lot of sick guys out there--believe me, I used to be a prostitute--you'd be amazed at what people have asked me to do. seriously.
I was sexually abused from the time I can remember--and believe me, I was as messed up as a soup sandwich as to what was acceptable vs. not acceptable as far as sexuality went. -
Well I haven't actually seen the thing I just read the wiki description and from what I read there isn't actually anything that would normally be classed as sexual in this clip. This is why I think any kids who do see it see it as some sort of viral horror video and don't link it into anything sexual.
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Anin, I haven't watched the video either, but from what I've gleaned (some of it, unfortunately, from 7th graders) these two women sort of make out once they get their mouths full of excrement.
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I haven't seen the video either (and won't--ugh) --but I believe there is a sexual tone to the movie. At least that is what I think.
But it isn't even just this specific video--this is just one example. These films are made for some (sick) people's sexual pleasure--no doubt about that--it is for fetishists. Most fetish films I have seen (and yes, I have seen some) the people are naked, leaving little doubt that it is is a form of sexual expression.
God, that's just so disgusting! These poor women that are making theses films. My heart goes out to them. -
Bloody hell, I feel sick just from hearing that. I think I actually would be sick if I saw it.
What was the overall reaction of the kids that were talking about it?
I can see what you and Mtyler are saying about it warping a young girls idea of sexual relationships but I would be more worried by the easy availability of "normal" porn to kids I think that stuff is far more insidious and damaging to a youngsters idea of sexual relationships than this sort of thing is. -
I feel kind of sick too.
And I agree--there is WAY too much easy access to sexual content. It's everywhere--which is why I (again) go back to the importance of a strong nurturing home environment. I really do believe that if that is in place, it overrides just about everything else (for most kids, anyway). -
Anin, their reaction was a bit perplexing. Universally, they said it was "gross" or "disgusting", but in a laughing, self-conscious kind of way that led me to believe that maybe they weren't quite sure how they were SUPPOSED to respond.
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And why friends wondered why I set up three different firewalls on my network at home.-
Smart move, Tommy!
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Yeah but that's what your wife has set up to keep you away from the porn.
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Hate to ruin your day, but we have a camcorder for that.
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Best topic ever
Two girls one cup is old news, Very old news, and everyones seen it. These days its like a rite of passage to watch it, even god probably has it bookmarked..
To answer your question: It's just a video, no need to panic about it. Parents panicked the same way about playboy that they're also upset about 2girls1cup, and nothing ever became of any of it. There's no proof that gross videos ever have any impact on sexuality, in the same context that there's no proof violent video games have ever been anything other then entertainment.-
Wow, River. It's hard to imagine someone being off base so often in one brief post. No one is panicking--we're discussing the possible impact. Not everyone has seen it--nearly everyone in this thread has said that they haven't.
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Right, and I answered that: There is no "Impact" because there is no good scientific research proving pornography is damaging.
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Pornography? You think that's sexy?
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I think the video was absolutely disgusting, as a note to parents this is why monitored internet use is so important.
At the same time I don't know that I buy this type of video shaping someone's sexual taste unless the person had a dormant drive for feces and vomit. -
I was 18 when I saw 2g1c and I still thought it was disgusting. I doubt a 12 year-old could walk away from watching that with anything less than a serious case of nausea.-
I was hoping you'd weigh in on this, Kobra. I hope you're right.
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I watched it and I turned out a ok.-
Um.
Well.
For the sake of argument, let's accept your second premise...
How old were you when you watched it?
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I'd just as soon that the alternatively-kinky (or whatever euphemism is popular at the moment) content wasn't there. I was exposed to very mild 'adult' material when I was 13: four decades later, I'm still mopping up some of the mess. No details available: this isn't True Detective.
So: I am not in the 'this is harmless' camp. On the other hand, I'm no fan of blocking software. There's too much chance of blocking a children's story that contains an onomatopoeia for the sound a bell makes (part of it's also a naughty word - think about it) - and letting through something that really is unwanted.
This household has the computers in the family area, where activity can be noted and discussed.
We did have one incident, where our pre-teen son accidentally (I believe him) linked into something very 'adult, sophisticated, and mature.' He immediately reported the situation to my wife, and they had a discussion about the content.
There was another incident, quite recently, in which I apparently clicked on an ad - with the result that later in the day my son and I had a flash of some rather inadequately covered, flexible, young women.
Also advertisements for fashion boots. And yes, I think there was a connection.
That gave my son (pre-teen for a few more weeks) and I an opportunity to discuss online security. The next day, after I'd run a batter of malware tests, he suggested that dropping the browser's history might get rid of the garbage. He was, apparently, right. There have been no recurrences.
Addressing the Questions
What kind of impact will early exposure to images like that have on the development of our kids' sexuality?
- Depends on what their personality is, when the stuff hits them, and myriad other factors. I suspect it will have a lifelong impact, but one which will be tempered by other factors.
And what can we do about it?
- I've outlined what this family does. We let kids know, as they have need for the information, that they live in an imperfect world; monitor what they're doing (fancy way of saying that the family hangs out together); discuss issues as they come up.
Other alternatives include giving up, moving into a cabin above the timberline in the Rockies, or joining a commune in Oregon (if they're still around). I wouldn't recommend any of those - The Amish, though, seem to have a sensible approach to simplifying their lives.
That's a whole different topic.-
((I was exposed to very mild 'adult' material when I was 13: four decades later, I'm still mopping up some of the mess. No details available: this isn't True Detective.))
Thank you for your honesty. Some kids would likely not be adversely affected--but some undoubtedly would. One thing I have learned, as a psychologist, is that there isn't one 'typical' reaction. We are all so different and depending one what other things are going on in a child's life, I do believe it could have detrimental effects.
But then, I work with kids with severe behavioral problems--so I am likely more aware of what kinds of things can negatively influence kids.
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I agree with Anin a bit with regards to the sexual nature of it - or lack thereof. Although there is some sexualization, it's really more of a freak show than anything else. It's based on a fetish, but does not revolve around sex.
I don't know how, really, something like that would affect kids any differently than a grossly violent movie, video game, or hard core pornography. I'm sure it has some negative affect on their psyche. I'm just not sure how, exactly. It would depend on how the child internalizes it.
I'm constantly amazed to find out what Punky's friends know. AT ages ranging between 6 and 13 - these kids know a lot more information about a lot more topics than I knew about until I hit high school. They know about sex, they know about drugs, they follow and emulate adult celebrities. I don't know if it's over exposure, under supervision, or just a lack of all around better judgment - but kids today are not kids.
They have cell phones (at ages as young as 10), internet access, aggressive behaviors - obviously lax parenting and over exposure to violent and degrading media, and violent and degrading lifestyles of celebrities and their own parents perhaps have a negative affect on kids.
I dunno - I'm at a loss, really. -
Mm...this is a tough one for me.
I've seen the video. It didn't really gross me out, but then, I've seen a lot of gross videos online, so I'm probably desensitized a bit.
For the most part, I agree with the user above that said the video is used as a sort of horror film. The intent is to show it to gross out your friends.
I doubt the film would have much impact on the development of one's sexuality. But if it does...what does it matter? A person's sexual preferences and fetishes are their own business, no matter how gross they may seem to other people. So long as they don't inflict harm on an unwilling participant, I don't see the problem.-
I'm not so worried about a person picking up that kind of fetish--if that is what really interests them (and it is absolutely true that the greatest aphrodesiac is our mind).
What would concern me is if young girls view this and feel that this is the way women can be expected to behave, sexually. That it's okay for women to be degraded in such a way. That's far more worrisome. -
Well, actually a fetish like that can be dangerous. There's a reason you're not supposed to ingest (in whole or partially) fecal matter.
It's a form of BDSM that is extreme, and beyond the norm for even the most hardcore of the BDSM crowd - because of the health risks involved. Unlike other forms of BDSM, there is no safe way to ingest feces. -
I believe if you mould it into patties and bung it in a bread cake you can call it a big mac and safely ingest it.
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I wasn't referring to actually doing what these two girls are doing--but getting turned on by watching that kind of thing.
I started the world's first fantasy phone call (Julie's Hotline--and yes, it's in the book--if you want, I will even sing the rap I wrote for the place). Most people with those kinds of fetish want to hear about it or see it--most don't want to actually engage in it. I remember this one trick . . . (oh never mind--this isn't really the time nor the place). -
Sorry, I was responding to GG's comment:
A person's sexual preferences and fetishes are their own business, no matter how gross they may seem to other people. So long as they don't inflict harm on an unwilling participant, I don't see the problem.
I should'a done a @GG
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Gotcha, Anok! You are definitely right on that--there are some real health concerns (OH YUCK!).
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Do 12 year olds watch Family Guy? Because it is referred to in that show. I know its an adult cartoon, but I am pretty sure it has a younger audience too?-
I watch very little TV--I mostly read or watch movies. Sometimes I enjoy the Discovery Channel--and my secret vice (as a frustrated fashion designer) is Project Runway--but you have to be fricking kidding me that this 'movie' was referenced on Family Guy!.
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Well look at stuff South Park covered?
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I'm television stupid, Claire--I never watched that either. I was in college and grad school when that was raging and I just didn't have time (when you waste 30 years of your life, you feel compelled to not waste so much when you finally come to your senses).
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Well south park covered a lot of what I am sure would be classed as questionable material and I use to find it highly amusing when it was first out. Of course looking back at it, I didn't have a bloody clue what it was really about most of the time.
When your in school your exposed to a lot of stuff, most of it you just pretend to 'know' about, but don't have a clue.
I think most kids have their heads screwed on when it comes to things like this, but there is always going to be that percentage that is vulnerable. Parents need to keep up with what is going on in the world around them and their children. Being prepared to answer difficult and potentially embarrassing questions is really important. -
((( think most kids have their heads screwed on when it comes to things like this, but there is always going to be that percentage that is vulnerable.)))
I completely agree. Most kids are not adversely affected by playing violent video games--but there is a certain segment of the population that will be.
And ultimately, as I have repeatedly said--I think most kids who have good parental support and guidance would never be adversely affected.
Of course, I work with kids who have serious problems--so I see first hand how easily influenced *some* kids really are. And some are--absolutely. And as I said, it is not so much that the girls are going to try those kinds of disgusting acts--but perpetuating the idea that women can be expected to be degraded in such a way. That's far more worrisome. -
I also think you never assume that your kid should know how to handle situations like getting exposed to something like that, being book smart and being street smart are two very different things.
Kids can slip through the net even with the best of parents, because they have not had 'the talk' about sex, sexual acts and other things. -
Amen, Claire--agree completely.
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Kids can slip through the net even with the best of parents, because they have not had 'the talk' about sex, sexual acts and other things.
I also agree with Claire.
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I can't see how this viral video could be healthy or have any redeeming value whatsoever. Call me a close minded prude, but it's gross. I know of it, but haven't seen it and don't want to see it. I think there's no problem in clamping down with internet filters and the like and strictly limiting access. The web for kids should be for informational and educational purposes only, and nothing else.-
Amen to you too. Kids are growing up WAY too fast these days.
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gtally said: I can't see how this viral video could be healthy or have any redeeming value whatsoever.
Amen
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As a matter of fact, I am the screenwriter for Two Girls, One Cup, which is an autobiographical work based on my lifestyle, and I see no reason why anyone would object to it.
No, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go have some [removed by the community] for supper.... -
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good they didn't watch "One Man One Cup". -
I think that most kids are far more resilient than we give them credit for. They're exposed to much more than we were as kids, and it's all relative. I don't think kids take this seriously at all, to be honest. It's just a modern day "freak show"; it's the sort of thing that has always existed. If you're concerned, be open and honest with your kids about sex, and about your families values and morals. Make sure they know they can come to you with questions and that you'll give them an honest answer. -
This post is on Digg right now, and the difference in comments from here to there is really interesting (read: troubling). One comment says "speak for yourself, puritan" in regard to my contention that most people don't eat shit recreationally...and it's all downhill from there.
digg.com/odd_stuff/Two_Girls_One_Cup_and_Your_Kids-
I'm not surprised. I don't know what it is about sites like Reddit and Digg, but the behavior there is very different from places like BC.
Too many trolls out for their own jollies, perhaps. -
That is a good point, Jenn, and thanks for making it. When I woke up this morning and read those comments, I was feeling a little bit like I'd stumbled onto an alien planet.
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I haven't seen the video but I have read about it on Wikipedia. I feel mentally scarred just for reading about it. I can't imagine how it may warp me as a child. Scary stuff.-
I know the feeling, Tigers. After reading my post, my mom insisted that she wanted to know more about the video. I told her she really didn't, but that if she did she should click on the Wikipedia link in my post. She read about two sentences and couldn't hit the "back" button fast enough.
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I dugg it.
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Thanks, TT. We're just a couple of diggs from the upcoming/all/most first page. I'm not expecting this to go popular, but sure would like as many people as possible to see it. I suspect that there are a lot of parents who aren't even aware that this kind of thing is a cultural phenomenon widely available even to kids who aren't seeking out pornography.
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I just read your article (and no, I did not click on the link that lead to a detailed description). I am politically pretty liberal, but I don't that it's old fashioned or boring to monitor your kids internet and TV activity closely. I think that it's responsible parenting.
I agree with you. This subject of spying or monitoring your kids comes up quite often on these boards. Most of the younger generation (25 and younger) argue that parents need to trust their kids. Older participants (and almost universally all the parents) think that while open discussion between parents and children is a must, children still need strict limits and close monitoring.
I don't have children. When I do have children, they will not have access to the internet without close parental supervision. -
If anyone watches another human being defaecate or consume someone else fecal matter in a sexual setting.... They are damaged.. I'm sorry but I don't care how old you are.. Some of them are funny yes I'll admit to laughing.. But most are pretty degrading and shouldn't be viewed by anyone.. Logically -
Haven't seen it, but it sounds pathetic. I don't have kids of course. This kind of thing as with regular porn has devastating effects, not only on girls but on boys. It is the access to this stuff at an age when kids brains are not fully done that is harmful - to girls because it shows them they deserve no self respect they are just things, and to boys because it shows them girls are just things deserving no respect.
I'm extremely liberal and I understand girls and boys as they enter high school and before they head off to college in some cases will determine to have and have sex.The Playboys of old may have been a right of passage, but this other stuff is way beyond what a society that respects human beings and human dignity should be allowing. Saying kids are resilient is like saying it's ok to let your kids and their friends drink as long as they are at your house.-
Well said.
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There is nothing sexual about "two girls one cup" in the mainstream Just as there is nothing sexual with "hot lunches" or the best ever "one guy one bottle". It's literally cause for laughter.
If you're concerned about your kids thinking that defecating in a cup and having someone else consume the crap is going to make your child consider it, then you as a parent either trusts that your child is weak minded and capable of demoralizing her/himself on a whim or you just haven't done your job.
Seriously? Kids talk about sex as a way of understanding it. They talk about the foul aspects because it's funny to them.-
Well, we have your view of how this impacts a child's mind, and we have Melinda's. They appear to conflict. Melinda is a clinical psychologist who works with kids in this age group and is well educated in the manner in which children develop psychologically and the long-term effect of their experiences. Do you have a foundation for your conclusions that you'd like to share?
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Of course not. I don't have degree that concerns child psychology. So my opinion and life lessons are mute. This idiot will shut her mouth and allow you all to freak out about the demoralizing of our children through poop tricks.
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Funny how some people can't hear someone raise a concern without thinking they're "freaking out". That says a lot.
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Honestly do you think you're the first person to be concerned about the perverse nature of half the stuff you can find on the internet? It's not even the worst thing out there. Rather than pick one disgusting internet video to be upset about why not tackle the whole issue?
Most sound people know that the internet carries a variety of unwanted so called "entertainment" into our households only if we let it.
I saw that you were considering bringing it up to the teacher that teaches health class at your daughters school. That wouldn't be a bad idea however wouldn't it be worth it to bring this issue up with the parents as well?
I honestly think this problem isn't small or mute. I feel that this is more of a moral issue. Maybe the kids who found it to be something to talk about have no one to explain this sort thing to them. -
No, Betty, I don't think I'm the first--but I do think that in my daughter's age group (middle school) there are a lot of parents who are naive about the easy accessibility of this kind of thing and the fact that it's making the rounds--it's not just kids who are looking for sexually explicit material who are seeing and talking about it.
My concern isn't just about this one video; my post was centered on this one video because it's the one that dozens of 11-14 year old children I know are discussing daily, and have been for several weeks.
The reason I am promoting it so hard is that in making these posts, talking to my friends and talking to other parents, I've discovered that a startling number of adults simply had no idea this was out there, let alone that their kids probably knew about it and might well have seen it.
Obviously, there's a lot of other dangerous material out there; this is just the one that happened to arise in my story, which I hope will catch the attention of parents who might never have considered that kids this young are passing around this sort of thing...I've learned in the past few weeks that there are many of them. -
I'm not only concerned about the sexual and health aspect regarding this particular video, but I'm also also about the other issues found in this thread too: Virtual and Real Worlds and Kid's Morals
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/virtual-and-real-worlds-two-worlds-of-kid... -
You're right there are a lot of naive parents out there. I do work with a few women that say they preach abstinence only and that their children have absolutely no idea what sex is. Their teenage children. As proud as they seem to be about this, it causes me to worry that by not explaining the good things as well as the bad leads to kids looking else where for their information.
I wonder, do you think that if parents were open to discussing sex in it's entirety with their kids we would have so much to worry about? Not just sex, but the other stuff. I've already dealt with this with my younger sister. She didn't watch this particular video but something similar. I explained everything to her as my mother wouldn't. I guess because I'm open about all of it and am not afraid to talk about it with her as you're not with your daughter I didn't recognize your concern. -
@timethief what about adults? There are people who consume their lives with junk. Not having conversation or debates with other people on line, but devoting hours surfing for porn or trying to make connections outside their current relationship.
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What a sad society, where eating your own poop has become entertaining and funny. Eating the shit of someone else or licking the ass of some foul man is the next step, when this stuff is shown to kids before their brain is cooked it does affect them, synapses and pathways once formed are more difficult to un-form and take much counter exposure to negate. Which is why when you are really fucked up as a child it affects you so much longer. Adults pathways are already formed so seeing this stuff does not affect them the same way.
As a parent if you don't believe it do the research yourself. There is plenty of research to show it is the case.
It's more about where the line is drawn in a decent civilized society where people respect themselves and others. This may be where we are heading, at least in this country, and though it doesn't surprise me, it is very sad. -
I actually saw the video and didn't see it as being a sexual video but rather a trick. Like saying, "HEY LOOK!" and then showing your open mouth with chewed food in it. It's a gross out technique.
I am a bit concerned about the impact it will have on children but I think I turned out really normal considering all that I was exposed to as a child.-
So says a man that can't put a hat on properly.
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But I maintain full control of my bladder, puddles.
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Why...why...WHY do you set yourself up like this? Do you have any idea how hard it is to let these things lie?
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After a comment a couple of days ago that suggested I might want to exterminate all homosexuals, I've written a follow-up post. Figured I'd recycle the shameless blog promotion rather than starting a new one, because there's been some good discussion on this thread: whatswrongaroundus.blogspot.com/2009/03/why-i-wouldnt-want-my-son-to-get-of...
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Well said. IMHO this is detestable and potentially damaging video. I applaud you for having the courage to say so.
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Thank you, TT. I've been surprised by the backlash, but we're still at it. My daughter pointed out last night that they never touch on anything like this in health and suggested that I talk to the teacher who plans the "reproductive health" unit and raise this with her.
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That certainly sounds like a good idea to me so I hope you do follow through and speak to the teacher.
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I'm absolutely planning to...as soon as I take a few moments to revel in the fact that my 13-year-old recognized this as a problem that adults should be addressing.
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If she were my daughter I'd be reveling too.
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good luck with you
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I'm with other parents that limit and control their children's exposure to various media. One in particular (who doesnt have internet access at all) suffers a lot from the negative influence of other kids.
So even if you take out TV and the internet totally, there are those OTHER kids to worry about!
Talking about this 2 Girls One Cup video, I believe the best thing is to not bring it up. I don't believe in sticking your head in the sand - everyone knows that there is stuff we never imagined out there - but giving it the publicity it doesn't deserve is worse.-
I think "giving it publicity" is hardly an issue at this point. Google it--you'll get more than 26 million results.
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