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Tyler Perry vs. Spike Lee
Posted by lotusb • 10/26/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: black entertainment
This may be a topic (how do I say) better understood among the darker pigmented. However I recently heard some skuttlebutt and wanted to see what others think about it.
Recently Spike Lee has called Tyler Perry's movie and television characters "coonery" and "buffoonery".
To which of course Perry replied that his fan base may beg to differ.
I acutally can see where both men are coming from....
Any opinions on this?
User Comments
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Everyone has different ideas as producers or directors and to me from the looks of it this looks like Spike Lee just doesn't like what Tyler Perry is doing. If you don't like , you don't like it, this is not the first time that two people behind the screen doesn't see eye to eye and it won't be last.
One thing that I can say about this is both of them produce different products that many people love and enjoy. Spike Lee was speaking his mind on this one when should have keep this comment to himself.-
i agreed with you on every point until you stated "Spike Lee was speaking his mind on this one when should have keep this comment to himself."
We all have the right to voice our opinions, you might not agree HOW he said it, but thats his right and he should not feel obligated to keep his mouth shut....
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I will have to say, I am a fan of both men.
I can see where Spike Lee is coming from...his movies (although often time humorous) take on a way more serious and intense tone..
Tyler Perry's movies in contrast TRY to take on a serious and intense tone, but that aspect gets over shadowed by all the antics and stereotypes.....
when i watch his movies, i sometimes feel ashamed to like them...(like my gossip girl addiction)
where as, I am PROUD to like Spike Lee's movies......-
I agree with that. I think Tyler plays on a lot of stereo types and because of that it's hard for me to see myself in any of his films. I think since I can't connect with the material I take it at entertainment's worth. Spike Lee on the other hand has some profound statments that are addressed and delivered in ways that definitely get the point across. I respect Perry for getting his money and starting an empire. However artistically, I'm a much bigger Spike fan.
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That's laughable comment. Have you ever watched the plays and actually listened to the message he is spreading. He is trying to deal with those stereo types in a christian way and be funny at the same time.
He is saying....don't turn your back on the crack head....help them. Don't sit on your ass when something arises,get the hell up.
When your baby girl comes home knocked up...don't rush her to the clinic...deal with what has happened with love.
Now y'all say sterotypes,but I say REALITY... my step dad is that crack head and it was actually MADEA that made me realize he was sick and u don't hate the sick u HELP them. -
I have seen Perry's plays (attended a few) and seen the movies. I'm not putting down what he does. BUT, I have not yet seen a single piece he's put out that didn't play on an already rampant black stero type. Not every black family has a crack head cousin, not every black family has a single mom, or a crazy "Big Mama" and so on.... Because of that aspect, I grow a little tired of the steady theme. But I appriciate the message. I'm not a huge fan...but I'm glad you got something out of it.
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I like both of these gentlemens movies. Unfortunately because there are so few black directors, it's sad they have to attack each other. But as men created equally we should be able to critique each others material regardless of color. Who says we have to like each other work or effort just because we are the same color, race or sex. It's the spirit you do it in. Was Spike coming from a nasty, hating place in his heart? If yes. Then he should deal with the hater in him and get rid of it. If no. Then he is entitled to his opinion, and as a seasoned director, writer and producer Tyler Perry should look at his remarks to help him. Either way Tyler should not take it to heart. -
it's funny that spike lee would start something with the all might mr perry..
www.thedaily-sy.blogspot.com-
Please don't link drop sweetie.
Thanks.
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Well ahem ahem....I'm not a darker pigment,but I think spike lee is racist. I don't see where he is coming from AT ALL,except that when I do see some one bring in a message with a christian undertone he/she will be persecuted.
Madea's character bridges the gap between the do gooders and the not so do gooders. The character let's you know exactly what being human is all about and still know that the good lord is gonna back u know matter what.-
Spike Lee is far from racist. He's been a political and artistic activist for the black and minority community for about 20 years.
I think he was looking at the fact that Perry tends to use a lot of black stero types to address his audience, which is offenseive to a lot of people. -
The thing is lotus it isn't just BLACK stereo types...its all people. I wish he would use some white people,but he would be called a sell out then....the thing is when you carry Christ's message you're damned either way.
Go watch a couple of plays and listen truly listen to his monologs -
Holly..
I don't know how to tell you this so you'll absorb it. I am not condemming Perry. I have watched the plays, I have seen the movies. I grew up with ministers in my family...I can APPRICIATE his message as I said before.
Perry HAS used white people in his movies...so maybe YOU need to pay attention.
I never said it was a BLACK thing, but it just so happens that he DOES use black stero types in his movies. I'm not making this up, it's THERE. And for that reason I can understand Lee's perspectives. However, Lee and Perry are two different genres...so it's like comparing apples to oranges. Either way, everyone is entitled to their opinions.
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I heard somewhat of what you are talking about on 60 miniutes last night, and I think maybe Spike Lee is jealous or something. Spike just should let Tyler have the show light because he has accomplished alot and at this point he is not going anywhere ever. I like Tyler Perry, and I have a article from "Black Enterprise" on him talking about has family background. Tyler has come from a very delusional background to normal. I actually look up tp him, and last night on 60 minutes he said "You either let the stuff eat you up and drive you crazy, or you just turn it into something that will help you positively"-
I don't think anyone attacked Perry's personal struggles. I think Lee gave a critique of Perry's art. Which I feel may have been delivered with harsh words, but was VERY valid.
No doubt we all have struggles. -
Twist it as you may,but he wasn't giving a critique. He was downing someone publicly for contreversy
I think he succeded to. That's ashame -
Art will always be critisized and so it should. If you don't think Spike Lee hasn't seen his fair share of equally if not WORSE critics your crazy. He's also not the first to say this about Perry.
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I also think its ashame that instead of "gossip" to tabloids or whatever media about another persons good works is JUVENILE,but that's what happens when one feels threatened by another's success.
It's truly ashame,those 2 talents could work together and maybe make a masterpiece. That's what MLK woulda wanted.-
MLK has nothing to do with it, really...I don't think they have to like each other's work just because their black. We have the right to not like each other...I don't think MLK would be turning over in his grave over that.
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I'm not saying mlk is rollin over in his grave. What I'm saying is why bust someone out bc u don't like their work. If spike doesn't like it there is nothing good coming out of him basically calling tyler perry a joke.
COLOR DOESN'T MATTER!!! You are not getting that point from me. Tyler perry could be white as a ghost and when 2 good talents work TOGETHER they generally make something BETTER than what they would have alone.
Lotus I think you are being a little stereo typical right now-
I never said color mattered holly.
NOTHING about me is stero typical....but feel free to explain yourself.
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I'm wondering if some of it isn't the reaction the arts film/literary sect doesn't generally give to more mainstream genre writers, though.
I saw an awful lot of that in both screenwriting and general creative writing classes in college-- there's a vibe that some of the more arts-related folks feel anything more genre-oriented isn't living up to what it should.
I haven't seen Tyler Perry's work except in clips, but I have watched a few Spike Lee films. I'm just guessing, but I imagine that might be in part where the criticism comes from.-
I totally agree with that. I do think it is more about the concept of art and what "staying true" to it means to certain artists. I think Perry has gained a lot of commercial sucess and he has done so by kind of watering down his message or feeding it to the public with a "spoonful of sugar" where as Lee has used a lot of shock methods. Both respectable, from my opinion. However I really do agree this is more about art than anything else.
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You started the OP with you darker people will understand this.
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I said MAY be, not WILL be. And the only reason I said this is because those stero types tend to hit home a little more within the black community. However I wanted input from everyone, or I wouldn't have posted it on here.
I honestly did not start out with a hostile tone, Holly...but you have been pushing buttons that I really don't appriciate. I understand your perspective, but don't try to make this discussion into a racist thread, when it really was just about ART.
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It's a complicated issue really, even though I'm trying to find the easiest way to explain it. It's just apples to oranges. What Tyler Perry is doing is providing therapy through laughter and self examination. Spike Lee is trying to heal a history and a perception of an entire people. It's hard to compare the two really. As far as Tyler Perry doing more damage than healing, I don't even know, nor do I think we would be able to know without doing an extensive and comprehensive study. -
I have done nothing of the sort. I'm not being hostile,I'm being honest. This thread was worded stereo typical. I mean let's call it what it is. Why even word the OP that way. If color truly didn't matter to you,you wouldn't have said "darker people"
I'm not calling you racist,but if color didn't matter you could point fingers at anyone in hollywood right now and find some sort of feud.
@lotus-
1) I never said you were hostile.
2) Stereo Typical means that something is exploiting a generalization. No where in my post did I do that. All I said is perhaps the discussion would be more familiar to people of color. The only reason, as I already said, that I mentioned that is because I know this topic comes up a lot in black issues. I didn't say, no white people allowed, I didn't say white people won't understand...I just made a tongue and cheeck disclaimer because I didn't want this thread to sound like I was asking people who may be unfamiliar with the issue to fore an opinion.
3) I'm not pointint a random finger for the sake of race. This was a recent show on 60 minutes in which Perry was intereviewed and he was asked for his reaction to Lee's comments. If Scocese was being interviewed last night about the work of Tim Burton, and Scorcese said something similar I would have posted a thread about that. But it was Perry and Lee. And since some of the premise was regarding black stero types...I mentioned that I might get more of a reaction from blacks.
I seriously was not sparking a fight to defend my opinions of black culture. I just wanted to see what people thought about Spike's opinion about a main stream film maker. -
Um, I'm not going to lie, but the truth is, unless you can walk in someone elses shoes, there's no way you can truly and fully understand them. Neither you, nor I will ever know what it is to be black, nor will we be able to fully comprehend, personally, the impact on the black community that these two artists' works have. I take no offense in the fact that the thread starter mentioned that it may be better understood by those who are black. It's the truth.
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Thank you...couldn't have worded it better myself. I whole heartedly was not trying to exclude anyone, and didn't know it would be so negetively recieved, although Holly seemed to be the only one bothered by it.
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I guess it's human nature then to give an extra shout out to your peeps,bc they know where ur coming from.
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Where was there ever a shout-out?
This may be a topic (how do I say) better understood among the darker pigmented.
That's not a shout-out, nor is it even an absolute statement. Lotus used the word "may" which means it could be or it could not be true. She didn't make a statement that what she was saying "is" true. -
Well, what if had been someone from the UK wanting to discuss two UK programs? We have BBC America here, but that doesn't mean everyone's seen it.
I didn't feel excluded.
Perhaps, Holly, because you've said before the Medea movies are faves of yours, you're seeing the comment in a different light.
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Spike Lee is right-
Now that is what we call an absolute statement. Not that I'm agreeing with it.
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I suppose so
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Lol...
Ok, well I think I know where Agit8r stands...
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One of the reason why Tyler Perry's movie is so popular, is that it carries some realism in the tones. Unfortunately, most of the "sterotypes" that are displayed are real and portrayed quite accurately. However, all of his movies carry an inspirational under or perhaps overtone that I think all people - not just "darker pigmented" people can relate. By the way, I just think that your usage of the word "darker pigmented" was very racist. Thats just my opinion.
In Spikes Lee "Do The Right Thing" movie, you have a community of black people where no one owns a single thing. Not a home, not a business, not even there own identity. In addition, I could easily complain that he tends to cast lighter-skinned Black and/or Latina women as his black lead's love interests. Is this real? Is this a portrayal of a certain stereotype? Tyler Perry's "Meet The Browns" and "House of Payne" may be very comical, however, almost all of his episodes has some sort of moral or inspiration. The problem is, we put a color or a race on what's funny.-
deo
This thread is NOT about stereo types. Nor is me using the phrase "darker pigmented" racist. Who am I racist again...MYSELF???
Come on...
Spike Lee, has cast actors such as Whopie Goldburg, Kerry Washington, Jeda Pinket and a slew of other black actresses in his films. If your using "Do the Right Thing" as the prime example of his work, then I take it you have never studied his entire resume...because his roles have spanned meager roots and black people who are very wealthy. His leading roles have been played by blacks, whites, hispanics, and asians.
And if your so noble...why are you bringing the color of love intrests into this conversation. Who cares if in one or two of his films the love intrest of a man was not a black woman...that's realistic.
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IN MY OPINION:
Spike Lee’s comments come from a place of jealousy only. His films were about separating the black community and creating discord so that people would talk about them due to controversy, not because they were really good. Tyler Perry, on the other hand, is all about the dynamics of the black family.
Spike Lee tries to guilt blacks into coming to see his poorly done movies and encouraging them to take off work so that he could have more money to go see his games. Did he care about blacks possibly losing their jobs by doing so? NO, he only cares about himself!
If he really cares about the black community and how we are being portrayed, has he set up a school or mentoring program that promotes the next black writer, producer, etc.? What has Spike Lee done to give back to the black community at all? He is a Leach and if anyone should “wake up” it should be Spike Lee!
Why did Spike choose Mr. Perry instead of the constant buffoonery of the Wayans family? Is it because Spike wishes to be where Tyler is?
I don't like black on black dissing in the media. Messages & comedy comes in different formats. I love the movies Spike Lee and Tyler has made. I also laugh at 'Two & A Half Men' & 'My Name Is Earl' but I do not shape my opinion about white people from those shows, nor do I define my family or me from Tyler Perry's shows. I find these entertaining and with social messages that my whole experience determines how I will respond.-
I can only assess that you have never educated yourself on either of the careers of Perry or Lee. First of all Spike Lee is a huge supporter of the inner city youth of Brooklyn, NY. Not only does he greatly contribute to the public school system but he has started grants in his name to motivate youth around the country. He is also heavily involved in promoting AIDS awareness. His films have been nominated for Academy Awards and he has won Oscars and Emmys for his work. He is consistantly involved in political issues facing the entire community not just Blacks.
Tyler Perry is also involved in the community, he was one of the first to react to the group of kids in Philly who were rejected from a public pool for being black and sponsored a trip for them all to go to Disney World.
My thread was not, however about their personal contributions to the community (be that black or otherwise) but about the condradiction between a more liberally artistic director and a more main stream one. Your accusatons about Lee's antics seem unfounded, and unresearched and I hope you take the time to actually learn about the man you so blindly ridicule. I respect both Perry and Lee, and I'm sorry that you missed the point here.
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I think that, lotusb, when you start a thread or any type of discussion, you have to expect that someone will not have views or ideas similar to your own. However, you do not have to like an OPINION. However, you should show some sort of FORUM respect. As I have previously stated, I am a fan of both. However, I do not agree with Spike Lee's statement regarding Tyler Perry's movies. If memory serves me correct, lotusb, you did ask "Any opinions on this?". This is simply my opinion. No negativity to you personally, cause I don't know you. However, my views are just opinions. Besides, regardless of his education, achievements, and all of those fancy awards - as you so eloquently put, I just believe that there should be some sort of respect for a craft. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.
~ Negativity can only feed on negativity. ~
~ People who project negativity typically have low self-esteem. They feel badly about themselves, and their negativity is simply a reflection of those feelings. ~ Hendrie Weisinge
"it's also virtually impossible to have EVERY ONE'S approval." -YOUR LATEST BLOG POST-
Deo...
Thanks for clicking on my blog...I love getting new fans.
However, I have no problem with you having your own opinion. I haven't challenged your opinion at ALL. I have however challenged your accusation that I am a "racist".
I haven't called you any names, and yet you out right called me a racist. So perhaps YOU should show some forum "respect" and not submit to petty unwarranted unfounded name calling like a child when someone simply because you don't understand what "darker pigmented" means.
Perhaps you should reflect on that Dr. Hendrie Weisinger quote yourself, since your the one who took first stab. -
Can I get a HELL YEA!!! It's all about the "GOLDEN RULE"!!! So simple yet no one can seem to understand it.
@ deo
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I can honestly attest to Lotus not being closed minded enough to dismiss other opinions that contradict hers.
I think the point she is trying to make, is that you were WAY off topic to challenge Spike Lee's personal contributions to the community (in which you obviously have NOT done your research on)
the question was about his comment and if you agree with what he said or not.
he has the right to say WHATEVER he wants, good bad or otherwise... -
Yea he has the right,but why???
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Another thing stereo types go across the racial board... I have never met just black crack head,or I've never met just white trailor trash, I've seen them come in all different colors to. I mean stereo types are cliche',but what tyler is doing for those stereo types are wonderful. He is telling you WWJD,and makin it funny at the same time.
I truly believe he is a man of faith and is just trying to spread the word in a not so condesending self-rightious way... -
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