Discussions
Vaccines...yes or no?
Posted by environmentalbooty • 2/13/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: autism, innoculation, mercury, neurological disease, parenting, toxins, vaccines
My father got a chronic neurological disease from a Hep-B vaccination and many parents of autistic kids swear their kids got sick right after the MMR vaccine.
Do you get a Flu shot?
Do you know some of our vaccines still contain mercury?
Do you think it is a problem?
Do you know never to give a child a vaccination when they are sick?
Do you think twice or not at all?
Do you think it is irresponsible for parents to not vaccinate their children?
User Comments
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Is it not true that the Amish have no cases of Autism, and they don't get shots?-
That's not completely true. The Amish have no diagnosed cases of autism--but they don't often go to doctors in the real world. My guess is they have autistic kids just like everyone else--no one knows about it because they don't seek typical treatment. -
Actually, I read they have a few cases of autism, but those kids got vaccinated outside the community.
Why have the cases of autism amongst US children skyrocketed to 1 in 116 today?
393339.com/html/Medicine-Answers/What-percentage-of-people-have-some-form-o...
Why is this number much higher than in Europe or Japan. Could it not be that children in the US now get close to 30 vaccine shots, vs maybe half in Europe? -
That was just completely dispelled by the medical community (very recently). For years they have said it is not the case but after many studies, it is now determined that there is no connection.
More people are diagnosed with every possible illness here in the U.S. than other countries. It's partly an effect of the fact that more people have regular access to medical care.
I have studied autism and there are some research studies that are looking at particular toxins in the environment as a trigger for a genetic predisposition.
But vaccines have been *completely* ruled out (as of this week, actually) by the medical community. The myth that there is a connection will continue because no one wants to really read the research on it. -
That isn't true, they get vaccinated at about seventy percent of the national rate and it is quite likely their autism rates, which are lower, are a refection of the fact that the Amish do not necessarily treat or diagnose it that often. They treat a wide range of behaviors, behaviors others might seek medical consultation for, as normal. -
MTyler,
The reason we cannot agree here is because you seemingly trust unremmitingly the "medical community", whereas I believe many of the official studies are biased towards the results which are sought from the start (at the very least). I tend to put more trust in the medical professionals who are critical of their profession than those who work for "Big Pharma". In fact, in several European countries, there are quite a few doctors who accept not to vaccinate their patients because they have come to the conclusion that vaccines do more harm than good. -
I am a biopsychologist. I trust the studies I have read--trust the research. It has been replicated and it is sound. It is not 'blind faith' on my part.
Have you bothered to really look at the data? Just curious--because the people who believe this myth generally are driven by emotional rather than scientific evidence. Emotional evidence is not science.
Not all studies are valid--but these are valid. -
MTyler,
The people I trust the most are doctors and other people from the medical profession I have spoken to, over the years. Re - what I said before... -
Yes, and isn't it amazing that the doctors you talk to so often readily support whatever opinion you seem to have on the matter.... -
@Harvey--you have not read the data at all. You simply talk to doctors who are bound to agree with you to reinforce your belief in this matter. Your response tells me you have not investigated with an open mind but with a set agenda, which usually yields no real understanding of any issue.
There is a great deal of good, valid, scientific evidence that there is absolutely no connection. Those who choose to really seek out the truth--rather than simply seeking out confirmation to their own beliefs--will learn the truth.
Unless truth is meaningless and all you need is your own stubborn beliefs and anecdotal evidence. That solves nothing, though--understand that. And causes death along the way-because despite your unwillingness to look at real evidence, the evidence strongly supports that children who do not receive these very much needed vaccinations are much more likely to die than those who do not. That's what the science has shown. -
Oh no
Hopefully that worked. Yup!
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My goodness I did not know that. I will have to look into that one. Thanks
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The risk associated with vaccination is insignificant when compared with the risk of the diseases you can get if you are not vaccinated.
There is no link between vaccination and autism.-
Exactly. Just fear that people wish to perpetuate.
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Tell you what Polybore, you continue taking your shots, and I´ll continue not taking mine, and if I die because I'm walking unprotected, you can send flowers to my funeral, whereas if you are put in a home with Alzaihmers, I'll send flowers to your room. Deal?
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< sarcasm > if I do not spread fear on a daily basis, my day is incomplete < /sarcasm >
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Well Harvey, Polybore would advise you on what you can do with your flowers, but given your irrational fear regarding that which enters your body one doubts that you would follow the advice. All in all, it is probably for the best as the lack of sunshine associated with Polybore's suggestion would be bad for the flowers.
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LMAO *snort*
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If you did, it must be in your house.
Unless your computer talks to you when you least expect it? -
It is unwise to invite Polybore to fantasize. Stalks first is going to be crucial to this operation. Very fetching result though.
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Do you get a Flu shot? NO
Do you know some of our vaccines still contain mercury? YES
Do you think it is a problem? It depends on the child.
Do you know never to give a child a vaccination when they are sick? YES
Do you think twice or not at all? NO, I don't think twice about it.
Do you think it is irresponsible for parents to not vaccinate their children? NO, I think that it's up to each parent to do what they feel is right for their child.-
What responsibility do you think people have who do not vaccinate their kids say in the case of an outbreak like chicken-pox?
"Typically, chickenpox is a mild illness, but can affect some infants, teens, adults, and people with weak immune systems more severely. Some people can develop serious bacterial infections involving the skin, lungs, bones, joints, and the brain (encephalitis). Even kids with normal immune systems can occasionally develop complications, most commonly a skin infection near the blisters.
Anyone who has had chickenpox (or the chickenpox vaccine) as a child is at risk for developing shingles later in life, and up to 20% do. After an infection, VZV can remain inactive in nerve cells near the spinal cord and reactivate later as shingles, which can cause tingling, itching, or pain followed by a rash with red bumps and blisters. Shingles is sometimes treated with antiviral drugs, steroids, and pain medications, and in May 2006 the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved a vaccine to prevent shingles in people 60 and older." kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial_viral/chicken_pox.html -
Well for starters the vaccine for varicella (chickenpox) is a NEW vaccine and chances are you have not been vaccinated against varicella (chickenpox). I know that I have NEVER been and the same can be said for my parents and grandparents.
The FDA didn't even approve the vaccine until 1995. That was only 14 years ago. Seeing it is a NEW vaccine there really NO study on how it works, and what the adverse effects of this vaccine can be, nor can there be, because the vaccine hasn't been available for that long.
It takes a few decades to fully understand how drugs can effect the body, and we have just passed the first decade on this vaccine.
Again I feel that it's up to each parent and it is their parental right to choose to vaccinate or not.
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Father of Vaccine-Autism Link Said to Have Fudged Data
www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Autism/12850
MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield fixed data on autism
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece
Do you get a Flu shot? YES
Do you know some of our vaccines still contain mercury? YES
Do you think it is a problem? NO
Do you know never to give a child a vaccination when they are sick? YES
Do you think twice or not at all? NO I DON'T
Do you think it is irresponsible for parents to not vaccinate their children? VERY MUCH SO, SEE BELOW
CDC Says Measles Cases at 12-Year High
www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/10629-
This has been recently disppelled by the medical community. There is no proof of this at all and plenty that points to the fact there is no connection.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090130093407.htm -
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Thanks so much for that measles link...it does not take much to get me excited huh?
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We skip flu shots in our house, but Punky receives vaccines for deadly diseases and prevention for deadly infections.
I am personally against the overuse of vaccines that have a low percentage of actually preventing something. Like the flu vaccines here - they protect against only one or two strains of the flu - and everyone is sick as a dog this year where they found several new strains of the flu. I find it to be pretty useless, then. Better to build up antibodies in other ways.
However some tried and true vaccines are OK in my book.-
OMG! My nickname was punky when I was a KID!
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Yes, and I have a feeling I know why.... *dun-dun-duuun*.......
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Yup. You'd be right about that!
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We don't do flu shots either. I think they're only recommended for people with weak immune systems, the elderly and others who would have a difficult time fighting off the flu if caught.
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@environmentalbooty,
You should find this of interest.
"This is the first half of the shocking but extremely and timelessly informative video documentary "Vaccination - The Hidden Truth" (1998) where 15 people, including Dr. Viera Scheibner (a PhD researcher), five medical doctors, other researchers, and parents' experiences, reveal what is really going on in relation to illness and vaccines. With so much government and medical promotion of vaccination for prevention of disease, ironically the important facts presented here come from the orthodox medicine's own peer-reviewed research, of which a total of well over 100,000 pages has been studied by those interviewed. The result is a damning account of the ineffectiveness of vaccines and their often harmful effects. It shows that parents are not being told the truth by the media, the Health Department and the medical establishment, with a medical doctor, Dr. Mark Donohoe, confessing that "It is a problem for me that I am part of a profession that is systematically lying to people." etc.«
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6696666502913965744 -
This is a very hot topic! If we stop getting vaccines, diseases that are almost erradicated, will come back and become epidemics, sometimes fatal. Some places are having measles epidemics because of the anti-vaccine movement. As far as MMR shots causing autism, I believe this was originally blamed on a mercury based preservative used in the medicine. They stopped using it years ago but the autism rate did not decline so I feel that something else is to blame, not the shot.
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I would really like you to take a look at my posting yesterday
shaneshirleysmith.blogspot.com
and click the title for a really great webinar (David Kirby the journalist).
The first 17 minutes or so are incredibly informative and thought provoking.
As I understand it, there is still mercury in some of the Flu vacc, Dip-Tetanus, Hep-A and Meningitis vaccs. Not enough mind you to make a normally functioning immune system to react abnormally. -
Lizzy,
The Australian doctors in the video suggest the eradication of diseases did not come from vaccines but from better hygiene.
Not saying never get vaccinated. I still have some unanwered questions left in my mind.
Also, I don't think mercury has disappeared from the vaccines, and there is also aluminium. I would need to do some more research, this is where I leave you. -
I told you this was a hot topic!
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For consideration.
The Age of Autism: The Amish anomaly
www.whale.to/vaccine/olmsted.html
In the last analysis, you all make up your own mind.-
It is called the Precautionary Principle to stay away from things that seem bad for you even without scientific proof of harm. Still, do members of a society actually have a right to put the rest of humanity at risk by not vaccinating? What impact might that have on our future health? Such a slippery slope. Private Rights VS. The Rights of the Public...
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I don't get vaccinated, I cannot bear needles as I collapse whenever they're even spoken about too much. -
I want everyone to understand there is a HUGE difference between a flu vaccine and getting a child immunized for deadly diseases.
As adults, you have the right to not get vaccinated. I don't do it myself but it's not because I don't believe it works (I am just too lazy and hate going to doctors).
But parents who do not vaccinate their children against some of these terribly debiliating diseases are often very sorry they did not. The vaccines actually save many lives. Go to a 3rd world country and see what the lack of vaccines have on the children. Absolutely devastating in many cases.
And please note--most people in the medical community (myself included) want nothing more than to make sure people are as healthy as they can be. Vaccines help us meet that objective.-
Even though my father became ill (the ruling has already been handed down from the government that the vaccine was the cause of his illness) and I worry that there is some genetic predisposition for my children to vaccine illness, they have all been vaccinated. It was gut wrenching for me every time but my pediatrician is very well informed and was always cautious to give vaccs only when time (never even one day early) and never administered while they were even slightly ill.
You are so right about the awful diseases which still exist in 3rd world countries. I fear that people are making a decision to not vaccinate without fully understanding the risks to society and the World as a whole.
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Guys I have info on yesterday's government ruling on vaccines and autism at our group page...
Environmental Health - Wellness - Beauty...Get Informed Now!
Please join us! -
I think it is acceptable to look at individual vaccines and determine the time frame of when a child needs them. For example, if you're child is medically fragile and your household has been tested for Hep B, it might not be a terrible idea to wait a few months to begin that series. I do think it can be dangerous to not vaccinate your children and if you're not willing to do the research, you should let those who have decide. -
I heard recently that smallpox has actually disappeared off the face of the earth. Don't know if this is true but it sure sounds like a wonderful medical accomplishment.
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Melinda is so correct about the studies. Did you know there is some talk, that parents who do not vaccinate may later be at risk for lawsuit from their children for not doing what is best for them? Many diseases vanished as the result of vaccines - polio was a real threat -caused many children to become ill, Many died, were crippled, and lived in iron lung machines. -
Yes definately there are reported cases of autism when eariler vaccine strain was in use ,but now it is completely removed from market...and latest vaccine have no risk of autism...unless you have solid proof pleas dont comment on vaccine...mothers get panic ,so don t spread wrong messages ....for complete database of vaccination read my blog
i have made an attempt to cover vaccines in detail-
You are right, mothers as well as fathers should not get panicked, they should get information. I know all too well what the effects of a vaccine can be on a person and a family. I have posted abnout my father above. I also know that the chances of having a reaction to a vaccine are very small. I have been studying vaccines and their effect for over 8 years as my family has been completely devastated by my father's illness from the Hep-B vaccine. I am definately not an expert.
Still, I have the right to share what my family has experienced as a result of vaccines. This proves to make the risk real so that more conversation will take place and perhaps more studies will be done to find the possible links to disease from not only the toxins in vaccines but to so many other toxins around us and in our food supply. Thankfully, the government is doing something in the case of the vaccines with further study.
As far as removal of all Thimerosal from vaccines, from FDA website today
www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimfaq.htm#q6 :
"What progress has been made towards the goal of eliminating thimerosal from vaccines?
Great progress has been made in removing thimerosal from vaccines. Manufacturers have been able to accomplish this goal through changing their manufacturing processes, including a switch from multi-dose vials, which generally require a preservative, to single-dose vials or syringes. Since 2001, all vaccines manufactured for the U.S. market and routinely recommended for children ≤ 6 years of age have contained no thimerosal or only trace amounts (≤ 1 microgram of mercury per dose remaining from the manufacturing process), with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine. In addition, all of the routinely recommended vaccines that had been previously manufactured with thimerosal as a preservative (some formulations of DTaP, Haemophilus influenzae b conjugate (Hib), and hepatitis B vaccines) had reached the end of their shelf life by January 2003.
In the past, prior to the initiative to reduce or eliminate thimerosal from childhood vaccines, the maximum cumulative exposure to mercury via routine childhood vaccinations during the first six months of life was 187.5 micrograms. With the introduction of thimerosal-preservative-free formulations of DTaP, hepatitis B, and Hib, the maximum cumulative exposure from these vaccines decreased to less than three micrograms of mercury in the first 6 months of life. With the addition of influenza vaccine to the recommended vaccines, an infant could receive a thimerosal-containing influenza vaccine at 6 and 7 months of age. This would result in a maximum exposure or 28 micrograms via routine childhood vaccinations. This level is well below the EPA calculated exposure guideline for methylmercury of 65 micrograms for a child in the 5th percentile body weight during the first 6 months of life.
Currently, all hepatitis vaccines manufactured for the U.S. market contain either no thimerosal or only trace amounts. Also, DT, Td, and Tetanus Toxoid vaccines are now available in formulations that contain no thimerosal or only trace amounts (see Table 3).
Furthermore, all new vaccines licensed since 1999 are free of thimerosal as a preservative. Inactivated influenza vaccine was added to the routinely recommended vaccines for children 6 to 23 months of age in 2004. FDA has approved thimerosal–preservative free formulations (containing either no or only trace amounts of thimerosal) for the inactivated influenza vaccines manufactured by Sanofi Pasteur and Chiron. These influenza vaccines continue to be marketed in both the preservative free and thimerosal-preservative containing formulations. In addition, in August 2005, FDA licensed GlaxoSmithKline's inactivated influenza vaccine, which contains 1.25 micrograms mercury per dose. Of the three licensed inactivated influenza vaccines, Sanofi Pasteur's Fluzone is the only one approved for use in children down to 6 months of age. Chiron's Fluvirin is approved for individuals 4 years of age and older, and GSK's Fluarix is approved for individuals 18 years of age and older. The live attenuated influenza vaccine (FluMist, manufactured by MedImmune), which contains no thimerosal, is approved for individuals 5 to 49 years of age. For the 2005-2006 season, Sanofi Pasteur was able to manufacture up to 8 million doses of thimerosal-preservative free influenza vaccine. Based on an estimated annual birth cohort in the United States of 4 million, there are 6 million infants and children between the ages of 6 and 23 months, most of whom would need two doses each. Thus, the amount of thimerosal-preservative-free vaccine that is available based on current manufacturing capacity is well below the number of doses needed to fully vaccinate this age group. FDA is in discussions with manufacturers of influenza vaccine regarding their capacity to further increase the supply of preservative-free formulations."
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dear mothers visit my blog for complete data of vaccines
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PS from above...I did not notice any mothers panicked revants.
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One of my relatives got the flu shot and still ended up getting incredibly sick. I tried to warn him not to get it too, he didn't listen..By getting that shot, it just makes our immune system weaker because these viruses are evolving faster then we can keep up. -
Do you get a Flu shot? NEVER
Do you know some of our vaccines still contain mercury? Yes
Do you think it is a problem? Absolutely
Do you know never to give a child a vaccination when they are sick? Never
Do you think twice or not at all? not at all
Do you think it is irresponsible for parents to not vaccinate their children? no
Is anyone aware that instances of sids in Japan dropped 73% after they stopped giving vaccinations before the age of 2.
Do people know the chemicals that are contained in vaccinations?
Are you aware that most of the things they vaccinate for are only found in 3rd world countries.
Do you know that the HUGE cash grab the vaccinations are for the pharmaceutical companies.
If you know anything about penicillin you'd know that each time you have a dose that the next time you need a different strain. The same goes for the flu shot. Each year a new strain develops because it evolves beyond the strain that we receive in a shot. Viruses evolve faster than we can develop new flu shots-
Think about your statement. These diseases only exist in third world countries because those countries do not have vaccines! Really, your logic if full of fallacies! Right now, in the US, we have what is called HERD protection. Because most people are vaccinated against major, infectious diseases, this protection extends to the un-vaccinated like a protective tarp. When you start cutting holes in the tarp by refusing to vaccinate your children, you're letting infectious disease back in.
We could see the return of polio with this kind of thinking.
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NO NO NO NO -
Great book if you're interested: "How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor" by DR. Robert S. Mendelsohn (He's a pediatrician). Lots of good info regarding the pros and cons of vaccines as well as how to treat common ailments. Saved us a lot of trips to the doctor once we understood each illness.-
Thanks. I will check it out.
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PeachMom,
Looks like you're raising a good point.
I'm not familiar with Dr. Mendelsohn, or his book, but (getting on my soapbox) -
I see 'over-immunization,' and over-use/misuse of antibiotics, as a problem. Also, the Western (American, anyway) cultural habit of going to the doctor or emergency room for trivial health issues.
'Preventive medicine,' common sense, a little knowledge, and a willingness to put up with minor discomfort, is an option I think many people could benefit from. -
Oops - accidental repeat, from that temporary server situation.
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Antibiotics are a whole other issue. I absolutely agree that antibiotics are being abused, but the greatest danger of super bugs comes not from human use of antibiotics, but in livestock. The livestock industry FEEDS an antibiotic slurry to animals on a daily basis. The way we raise industrialized livestock is insane. We are feeding chicken and pig parts to cows, cow and chicken parts to pigs, cow and pig parts to chickens. Then we herd them into cages, so close to one another, disease spreads like wildfire. Industrialized meat producers are the single largest consumer of antibiotics in the world.
Maybe we should be less paranoid about vaccines and a little more paranoid about our food. The US has yet to have a major outbreak Jacob-Kreutzfeld disease (human mad cow) but modern industrialized farming has only been around for 30 some years. It takes about that long for the disease to incubate in huimans.
We could be seeing an epidemic soon rising entirely from the meat that we eat. No, I am not a vegetarian or an animal activist. I'm just someone who is a little scared.
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Q & A:
Do you get a Flu shot?
Yes, annually - I'm in my fifties, so it's a good benefit-risk tradeoff.
Do you know some of our vaccines still contain mercury?
Yes. Very small amounts. Less now, than previously.
Do you think it is a problem?
I'd describe it more as an issue: trace amounts of almost any element will be found in a product. The question is whether or not the mercury is present in a high enough ratio to be hazardous.
Do you know never to give a child a vaccination when they are sick?
Same goes with adults. And, yes: this family knows that it's a bad idea for anyone to get a vaccination when they're ill, or have a compromised immune system.
Do you think twice or not at all?
Yes, I think. I often think twice - or more - about any given subject.
Do you think it is irresponsible for parents to not vaccinate their children?
"Irresponsible" is a rather strong word.
I recognize that there are some belief systems which cannot accept immunization produced by artificial means. Since my beliefs, and those of my family, are rather counter-cultural (we're practicing Catholics, living in America), I hesitate to describe anyone acting against legal or cultural norms as "irresponsible."
In this case, given the track record and research which supports the idea that vaccination of an entire population results in the suppression of (or, as in the case of smallpox, apparent extinction of) debilitating or lethal diseases: I'd say that refusal to vaccinate children is imprudent at best.
Since some communities in the American northwest seem to be largely un-immunized, my guess is that we'll see a practical demonstration of what happens to unprotected populations in the near future.
I feel sorry for the kids.-
I am very glad you are always thinking. Especially so I can "hear" it. I hear you about the kids. That is a huge part of why I am doing this. Plus, once you see your father being lifted into his bed (CIDP form Hep-B shot) in a huge sling that hangs over the bed, your life changes.
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Here it is a law to get your kids their shots.
so your $hit out of luck if your against it.-
What about people who cannot tolerate vaccines due to allergies?
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There are exams and tests done before giving them.
My comment was the jabs kids get over here.
Thats all I have for answers as I am no doctor or lawyer only know the laws that impact me.
(my stupid laptop keeps freezing up so sorry if this is repeating or over edited haha) -
I would hope there's some sort of alternative. It seems like a rather broad law, if you know what I mean.
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Well this is the internet so sure if interested it can be looked up. I know that when A child is born there is tests done, jabs given and at certain ages there are letters sent to you from the government telling you that a certain jab is needed. I once forgot an appointment and had police on my front door asking why I missed the appointment.
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Yeesh!
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Some quotes, a few years back. Obviously, it's an evolving issue.
"According to Hugh Fudenberg, MD, the world's leading immunogeneticist and 13th most quoted biologist of our times (nearly 850 papers in peer review journals), if an individual has had five consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years studied) his/her chances of getting Alzheimer's Disease is ten times higher than if they had one, two or no shots. I asked Dr. Fudenberg why this was so and he said it was due to the mercury and aluminum that is in every flu shot (and most childhood shots). The gradual mercury and aluminum buildup in the brain causes cognitive dysfunction. Is that why Alzheimer's is expected to quadruple? Notes: Recorded from Dr. Fudenberg's speech at the NVIC International Vaccine Conference, Arlington, VA September, 1997. Quoted with permission. Alzheimer's to quadruple statement is from John's Hopkins Newsletter Nov 1998."
Ted Koren, D. C. www.odyssee.net/~expodome/autism.htm#Top
If two dozen once-jittery mice at UBC are telling the truth postmortem, the world’s governments may soon be facing one hell of a lawsuit. New, so-far-unpublished research led by Vancouver neuroscientist Chris Shaw shows a link between the aluminum hydroxide used in vaccines, and symptoms associated with Parkinson’s, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS, or Lou Gehrig’s disease), and Alzheimer’s.
www.whale.to/vaccines/woolley.html.htm
Robert Kennedy
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrIM2hwrLoc-
I will be on this like white on rice tomorrow. I am frickin flippin over all of this that I have not come across before to dig into.
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I eat sushi 3 times a week. So, my mercury levels must be off the charts! Senile dementia, here I come!
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ST,
Do you take Fudenbergs' statement lightly?
Also, in response to one of your other comments, it seems what eradicated diseases are not vaccines but a general improvement in hygiene (this is what these Australian doctors suggest in the following video).
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6696666502913965744
I'm not advising people not get vaccinated, just to examine all facets of the issue. On my part, I still have unanswered questions I need to look into. -
EB,
White on rice? I just learned a new expression! -
I happen to think vaccine naysayers fall into the same camp as Holocaust deniers and people who claim AIDS doesn't exist. There will always be questionable, research and studies that are taken out of context or deliberately misinterpreted. You can manufacture an expert for practically anything. There are people out there who will believe anything and that is why the internet if rife with misinformation. If you dig hard enough, there are scientists who believe that polio was not eradicated by vaccines, but by vitamin c supplements.
And my point about the sushi was to point out that environmental factors and diet also affect senile dementia. In a somewhat humorous way, though clearly you didn't find it funny.
As for hygiene being the end of modern disease, I'm sure improved hygiene and clean water helped. We don't really hear about huge cholera outbreaks anymore and the bubonic plague is really just a history lesson. People used to think lepers suffered from their affliction because they were unclean.
Being clean isn't the answer for everything though. I don't think that polio is hygiene related, or smallpox, measles, mumps. -
I happen to think people who stoop to Reductio Ad Hitlerium have something up their sleeve.
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There is a wonderful episode of This American Life that deals with both sides of the vaccine issue. It's titled "Ruining It for the Rest of Us" and you stream it on thislife.org or download it from I-tunes. I do not have children yet, but I would most definitely get my future children vaccinated for all deadly diseases, including the vaccine for the virus associated with cervical cancer. Chicken pox, no. You still get a better immunity to chicken pox by being exposed to it young than through vaccine. As for flu, we'll see. I don't get a flu shot because I don't fall into a high risk group, but I will once I do.
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Also, has anyone seen the Frontline documentary about the origins of AIDS? The theory is, AIDS was a the result of mass immunizations for polio. This particular vaccine was manufactured from monkey blood, since discontinued. That is what created the initial epidemic and then international, sociological and political upheavals did the rest. Just food for thought.
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Okay Stillthinking now I am really excited. As a part of an internship for one of my profs in college, I helped compile data on the start of the aids epidemic and how it traveled to US. I remember thinking, "Well how the hell did a Swiss dude get aids from monkey blood?" Help me if I am wrong on the nationality; I was young and wasted a lot in college my brain cells are gone. Anyway, another student told me that he had intercourse with the monkey. I have always thought that. I want to see this. I will search but if you find it pleeese post.
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vaccines = good
it's a PUBLIC health issue -
If you go to PBS.org, there is a whole Frontline section. It should be available to stream. It aired a couple of years ago. If not, try Netflix or your local library. As for the Swiss dude, he probably didn't have a sex with a monkey but he probably had sex with someone he didn't want to admit to. Like, an African man or woman.
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:)Thanks.
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I don't get vacinations, I personally don't believe in them. Although, it's been a long time since I've gotten sick. -
Just wondering, let's say a parent did get a vacination for their child, and the child got sick because of it, would the parent be responsible then? What do you think?
Lance-
"Just wondering, let's say a parent did get a vacination for their child, and the child got sick because of it, would the parent be responsible then?"
I did not feel responsible when my girls got chiken pox from the vacc. When talking about a parent giving their child an AIDS vaccine and the child developing AIDS, I still do not feel that the parent's should hold themselves or that anyone could hold them responsible in any way.
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Lance,
You may very well have a point there.
I read about this case a few weeks ago.
www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24244520-26103,00.html -
I don't get flu vaccines, and I've never had the flu. I do not fear vaccines, however. I have read that a large part of the sky-rocketing autism rate is that a child with autism gets govt. paid therapy, whereas other conditions, such as mental retardation, may not. Therefore, doctors will diagnose a child as having autism so they can get the free therapy. Also, my sister's boyfriend has Asperger's Syndrome which is classified as autism, even though some doubt that it should be classified as such. His condition is not limiting or very serious.-
@calais50,
Therein lies the rub. (taps finger to nose thoughtfully) You're dead on about the increased rates of not diagnoses related to government funding. Autism isn't up, but diagnoses of autism are.
It's just like all these kids running around with ADHD or ADD. Of course, my theory with ADD and ADHD has more to do with bad parenting, poor nutrition, and lack of exercise. -
Still Thinking - I will try very hard not to get into a fist fight with you about your ADHD comment. I have a blog about that so I am a bit opinionated on the subject.
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I am not saying all cases of ADHD or ADD are misdiagnosed. I do feel there are legitimate cases of ADD and ADHD. I just wonder about the great proliferation of cases considering that there is also an epidemic of childhood obesity as well. There is a very strong connection between mood instability, depression, hypo-manic behavior with lack of proper nutrition and exercise. I'm sure you discuss the importance of proper nutrition and exercise a great deal on your blog. I wasn't trying to insult anyone or start a fight!
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(NaturalNews) A study recently published in the journal Epidemiology has suggested that rapid increases in autism rates in California cannot be explained by migratory trends and looser diagnosis criteria, but is instead most likely down to environmental exposures. Not exactly news to those well versed in natural healing, but perhaps such findings will finally represent a breakthrough of sorts for the scientific and medical community.
For more on the research:
www.naturalnews.com/025658.html
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[My father got a chronic neurological disease from a Hep-B vaccination and many parents of autistic kids swear their kids got sick right after the MMR vaccine.]
False cause fallacy.-
The government does not think my father's claim is false as the Special Masters have ruled on his case.
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Prove that vaccines cause autism.
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I never said that vaccines cause Autism.
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No? Then what's your objection?
The main anti-vaccine movement in America is based on the unfounded belief that vaccines cause autism. I presume you live outside the USA then? -
hey voodooKobra!
i can't speak for ebooty, but i can say that while i'm not against all vaccines, i can tell you why so many people i know are bent out of shape out vaccines.
1. some vaccines are made with perservatives with mercury in them which may or may not be bad for you (autism aside) - why take the risk?
2. in the u.s., vaccines are required over a short period of time. i'd prefer an extended schedule so that little kids' bodies don't have to deal with all of it all at once.
3. i lived in the uk where many of the vaccines in the u.s. are not required. why? it's possible that there are political reasons some vaccines are required here. the flu shot is now required in new jersey - the hub of pharmeceutical corporate headquarters. the guy who signed off on the flu shot did so and then went to work at the mercantile exchange immediately afterwards. hmmm.
4. some vaccines are just not necessary. rubella, for example, is now not required in connecticut where epidemiologoists have managed to remove it from the list of required vaccines because it's not necessary and may even be harmful.
i'm sure there are more reasons, but i have to go feed my kids (who have been received most vaccines but not the flu shot). -
[1. some vaccines are made with perservatives with mercury in them which may or may not be bad for you (autism aside) - why take the risk?]
Some of X might contain Y. Y might be bad. Therefore, X is bad.
While most people err on the side of their caution with their children, the reasoning here is fallacious.
[2. in the u.s., vaccines are required over a short period of time. i'd prefer an extended schedule so that little kids' bodies don't have to deal with all of it all at once.]
Why? We're constantly being bombarded with viruses and bacteria all the time. What makes you think the human body can't handle that?
[and may even be harmful.]
Huh.
[i'm sure there are more reasons, but i have to go feed my kids (who have been received most vaccines but not the flu shot).]
Well, I hope your kids stay healthy all their lives. I don't remember receiving a flu shot in a LONG time and I've never caught the flu despite its high rate of mutation. However, I'm not an old dude, so that's almost expected. -
I live in the US. My main objection to vaccines is that some people may have pre-existing genetic conditions, such as a mitochondrial dysfunction or nutritional deficiency, which leaves them susceptible to an autoimmune response from the vaccs.
CHeck this webinar out: www.webcastgroup.com/webcast/window_new/frameset.asp?WebcastID=4365&a=25585... -
That's different, then.
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Yes it is.
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There is a blog registered on BC which revolves around this hypothesis.
mickiesprogress.blogspot.com/-
Thanks!
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I immunized my first three kids without question, then my oldest son was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. Then I researched EVERYTHING. Now, we don't do flu shots with Thimerisol, but do the flue mists or order mercury-free shots.
My youngest son did get vaccines, but at a delayed rate and never more than one at a time. Its interesting because I just read that many vets are not recommending that dogs not get all their shots together, but that they are spread out because of problems. Wouldn't it be nice if we'd give humans the same consideration?
accidentalexpert.blogspot.com-
Necromancer!
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My son is 12 and autistic and I firmly believe it was due to the thermerisal preservative in the vaccines. But I still believe in vaccines but not our government or the FDA or the CDC -
[My son is 12 and autistic and I firmly believe it was due to the thermerisal preservative in the vaccines.]
What is your REASON for believing this? There is absolutely no scientific evidence in favor of believing it.
www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/vaccines.htm
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Why waste all this time? Vaccines prevent people from getting sick and have eradicated or nearly eradicated many, many diseases. Why advance uninformed crap by pretending it's not?-
Actually, that's not what quite a few medical experts think. Seems the decrease in disease is linked to improving hygiene.
video.google.es/videoplay?docid=-6696666502913965744
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yes, i got a flu shot months ago.
glamourmoments.blogspot.com/ -
Evil
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crime against humanity
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conspiracy
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genocide
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I have strong feelings on this
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Hmmmm.
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if it's really necessary to get a vaccine, then you'll need to get one, no doubt about it ! -
Is everyone planning on taking the Swine Flu vaccine? Another lady just recently died in Orlando from it.
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Paul Joseph Watson
London Times Censors Mass Opposition to Mandatory Swine Flu Vaccine
The London Times newspaper has apparently censored scores of comments on its own website that expressed vehement opposition to plans by the UK government to implement a mandatory vaccination program for swine flu.
As we reported on Sunday, respondents to a London Times article concerning the fact that the vaccine will be rushed through safety procedures in just five days, increasing the chances of it causing deaths and injuries in the thousands, as happened with the 1977 mass vaccination program in the U.S. which killed more people than the actual swine flu virus, overwhelmingly indicated that they would refuse to take the shot.
At one point, out of the first 50 comments on the article, over 40 expressed opposition to taking the shot and the other handful were merely asking questions about it. Hardly any comments expressed support for the nationwide rollout of the swine flu vaccine.
The overwhelming majority of comments were in the context of the following sample.
“Nobody’s coming anywhere near me or my family with their experimental mass vaccine/poison programme,” wrote one. “We will take our chances of catching their manufactured bird/pig/human virus, that was accidentally on purpose! released onto an unsuspecting public in the first place!”
“Anybody who reads this obviously still has the ability to reason and be guided by their own survival instinct and thus should listen to it. The mass fear mongering is a worldwide, co-ordinated and open conspiracy with massive geo political underpinnings. Don’t be fooled, eat properly and exercise,” adds another.
“A vaccine that is – effectively – being tested on the population, the prime reasons for such being the economy and easing pressure on the NHS? I’ll be another one who passes,” comments another.
“Thanks but no thanks. Rushed through tests in 5 days? What about long term effects? Vioxx and Thalidomide had long testing. How safe did they turn out to be? The side effects of Statins that they want everyone to take are worrying. I’ll take my chances with cholesterol,” writes another.
As of today however, the original London Times article that featured the comments (Swine flu vaccine rushed through safety checks) has been completely wiped clean, and the scores of comments expressing refusal to comply with any potential mandatory vaccination program have been sent down the memory hole.
A reader e mailed us to notify us that the comments had all been deleted.
“I revisited the article entitled “Swine flu vaccine rushed through safety checks” on the times website, to see if, as I had a suspicion, the comments would be censored as they were predominantly decrying the vaccine,” he writes.
“Lo and behold, they have all disappeared, and furthermore I noticed the commenting system is now setup so you must register to comment, whereas before it was open to anyone who simply supplied an email address. No doubt this is to discourage anonymous posts, however the registration does of course allow you to type a false name.”
“Having suspected this censorship would happen, I saved the web page with the comments in, and I have listed them below. I can supply the webpage as a zip if requested.”
The fact that major British newspapers are censoring the mass opposition to the planned mandatory nationwide roll out of the swine flu vaccine is indicative of the concern that authorities must be having about exactly how many millions of Brits will refuse to take the shot when vaccines become available later this year.-
This is unbelievable, not that I don't believe it. Information is te key. I cannot imagine having a mandatory flu shot in place. Scarey.
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Most infuriating is not the fact that we plain folk don’t really know what is actually going on, and that we are misguided in this mess. The entire UK has now heard a gazillion times that we are amidst a pandemic, right? But we are also told to keep these flu deaths in ‘perspective’.
www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/natural-health-articles/environmental-health/swi...
"This comes after the death of the young school girl Chloe Buckley with Dr Laurence Buckman, chairman of the British Medical Association's GPs’ Committee, saying: ‘We must remember that every year there are deaths from complications of seasonal flu - this is unfortunately inevitable with any strain of influenza.’ Great, so you scare us with numbers and nonsense and then you sober us up by telling the truth... just to add perspective?"
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They are law around here if your children go to school. Both of my children have had them because they went to a pulic school before I started homeschooling. But my neighbors daughter has such a bad reaction to them she is messed up mentally her whole life. She is not able to communicate and acts like she has downs syndrom or mental retardation and she is now 20. I have worked with some special needs people that are like that due to shots and medicines and it scares me that they make our kids take those shots. -
No medication works perfectly for everyone. Even aspirin has side effects that range from slight inconvenience to major issues, and vaccines are the same. Last year everyone at my company were offered flu shots. The majority of the employees took the shot, and one of them ended up getting the flu from the vaccine. The rest were fine.
Yes, there is a possibility that complications may arise, but for the *vast majority* of people, the vaccines work exactly the way they are supposed to. So vaccines against polio, hepatitis, etc. *could* have adverse effects on *a small number* of people, but for most, they won't. Consider the alternative. What if you choose not to vaccinate your kid against polio, and then your kid gets it? Would you kick yourself more or less than if you DO get your kid vaccinated and the kid gets it anyway, in spite of the incredibly small chance of it happening? -
How about this?
ABC News - N.J. Mandatory Flu Shots for Preschoolers Cause Outrage
abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/Story?id=6051917&page=1 -
Why are people getting silly about this. Vaccines work. Diseases that were a threat have been eradicated. Enough said.
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I have an exttreme interest in vaccines as my father got (bear with me on the spelling) Chronic Inflammatory Demylineating Polyneuropathy (or CIDP) from a Hepatitis-B vaccine. The US Government has compensated him as he is now in need of almost constant care and in confined to a wheelchair.
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I don't believe it is as cut and dry...
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I guess it's just up to who you choose to believe. For every scientific claim, there's always going to be a couple of "experts" claiming the opposite.
If you believe the WHO, an estimated 15 million people contracted smallpox in 1967, and 2 million of them died from it. 42 years and massive vaccination campaigns later, the disease is said to be eradicated. Dr. Morris may disagree, but personally I would be inclined to call this "evidence that proves that immunization of children does more good than harm."
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"I guess it's just up to who you choose to believe."
Agreed, to some degree. Outside the viewpoint of medical experts there is also the empirical (weight of) evidence - which granted is not always strictly probabilistic.
"For every scientific claim, there's always going to be a couple of "experts" claiming the opposite."
Actually, there are more than a few in this case. Have you thought of the fact that it's hard to question a "mistake" once whole structures are well established - would you necessarily entertain the idea of a "mistake" if that "mistake" paid your salary?
I would suggest watching "The other side of aids" on Googlevid in which top medical Aids researchers explain how the discovery of the Aids virus was backed by no documentation. Yet, when the official truth was laid out, no one questionned it for some time.
Why would I believe Dr. WHO (jk)?
"I would be inclined to call this "evidence that proves that immunization of children does more good than harm.""
Further above, there is a link to a video of Australian doctors opining that smallpox had already been largely eradicated, before the vaccination campaign, thanks to improved hygiene.-
"Actually, there are more than a few in this case. Have you thought of the fact that it's hard to question a "mistake" once whole structures are well established - would you necessarily entertain the idea of a "mistake" if that "mistake" paid your salary?"
Indeed, and I agree with you. Someone who stands to benefit from the mistake existing is not going to question its existance. Unfortunately.
The Australian video is quite interesting, and I would be curious to take a look at those number myself. It raises a couple of questions in my mind though.
They said that the occurrences of polio were made to seem rapidly dimishing because the definition of the disease was changed, and that the decline wasn't caused by vaccination. I don't quite see what this has to do with the efficiency of the vaccinations.
They made the definition of the disease much stricter, but this only dropped the amount of cases that actually were cases according to this new definition, not the amount of occurrences of the disease according to the older definition. Isn't it then also possible that the amount of cases that actually were polio (according to the newer definition) wasn't any bigger earlier either? Had the new definition been used from the start, perhaps the amount of cases would have remained constant. But after the vaccinations, the amount still dropped, even when using the newer definition, so isn't it also possible that the vaccine did indeed help? What they present is interesting, but it doesn't really prove anything either way about the efficiency of the vaccine, at least not in regards to polio.
I also find it a bit peculiar that the medical expert talking about measles, mumps and rubella in Finland, doesn't seem to know what a false positive is...
She reads from the article: "The 99% decrease in the incidence of the three diseases was accompanied by an increasing rate of false positive clinical diagnosis."
The lady then states that the kids are still developing these diseases, but that they now call it false positives. Hm? Doesn't the above rather state the opposite? That the kids do in fact NOT develop these diseases any more, and that there are instead more cases discovered where these diseases are diagnosed, but in error? There doesn't seem to be anything at all supporting her claim that the "kids are still developing these diseases."
The part where they talk about the amount of cases of scarlet fever dropping along with other diseases, even though there was no vaccination program against it is interesting, but again, it doesn't really prove anything one way or another. As researchers are fond of saying: "Correlation does not imply causation." The fact that the occurrence of scarlet fever was dropping as well does not in any way prove that the vaccines for the other diseases were not working. Of course, it doesn't prove that the vaccines WERE working either.
I can't help but wonder that if the frequency of smallpox and other diseases actually was rising as much as they claim as a result of the vaccinations, wouldn't there be more on the news about it? If smallpox does in fact still occur, and the vaccine can cause it as much as they claim, wouldn't that be the kind of stuff that journalists would pounce on rather quickly?
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I do not get the flue shot but I seem to get them from my horses and I make sure my dogs have their shots. Do I have my priorities in order?-
Not sure but perhaps you should examine that further. Are you getting the swine flu vaccine?
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My thought is (and probably someone has already mentioned this above, idk) that if your family history has many cases of neurological disorders, then the risk may be greater. If your child doesn't seem to be at high risk due to genetics or environmental factors, there is probably no need to worry.
I would say that you should ask your doctor, but doctors never really seem to think that there is anything wrong with vaccines... maybe because they sell them
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Maybe...how about you, are you getting the swine flu vaccine?
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hmmmm, this certainly is an interesting take by Andrew Moulden MD, PhD
vactruth.com/2009/08/03/vaccinations-are-causing-impaired-blood-flow-ischem...
Would love to hear an honest contradictory debate
PS Just saw you post Rainhat, let me get back to it in due time -
Fucking illuminatis & bankster's conspiracy... -
Hmmmm, swine flu breakout happens in April, yet Sanofi announces a 100 million influenza vaccine factory early March... :-/
"Sanofi-Aventis, Blackwater of bugs: Sanofi Aventis Invests 100 Million Euros In New Facility In Mexico to Produce Seasonal and Pandemic Influenza Vaccine 9 Mar 2009 Sanofi-aventis, announced the signing of an agreement with the Mexican authorities to build a 100 million euro facility to manufacture influenza vaccine in Mexico. The announcement was made during a ceremony attended by Felipe Calderon, [unelected] President of Mexico, and Nicolas Sarkozy, President of France, who was in Mexico City for a State visit. "By building this new facility, sanofi-aventis is proud to contribute to the strengthening of Mexico's health infrastructure and is eager to support Mexico's exemplary commitment to public health through influenza immunization and pandemic readiness", said Chris Viehbacher, Chief Executive Officer of sanofiaventis.
[Now, that's what I call foresight! See also: Baxter working on vaccine to stop
swine flu, though admitted sending live pandemic flu viruses to subcontractor ]"-
I just saw on the news today that there are many doctors here in Orlando that are NOT going to offer the Swine Flu vaccine because they are worried about the side effects. the Swine Flu vaccine in 1979 killed like 50 people and gave a ton of people the neurological disease that my dad got from his Hep-B vaccine. People are starting to wake up.
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Yes, I got the shot. It is my belief that there are a lot more germs out there that we are unaware of at this time. Public health is so important. One, had to be closed because all the children were exposed to the flu. -
Yes, you should vaccinate your children and get vaccinated. I am aware of the whole, vaccination causes autism and other issues, however, I am not willing to take the risk of not vaccinating my boys and having them come down with a horrible disease.-
Quite right. Also you can rest assured regarding the unfounded scare story MMR link to autisim myth. Recent studies of the adult population have shown a rate of autism of 1% which is exactly the same rate seen in children today. Because MMR has only been used since the 1990's adults have never received the MMR but the rate of autism is exactly the same as that seen in children. No increase in the rate proves conclusively that there is no link whatsoever between MMR and autism.
The swine flu vaccination is no different from flu vaccinations which are available every year and have been proven to be extremely safe.
The risk from a vaccination is infinitesimally small compared to the risk from the disease that it protects against. That is the whole point.
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I could have become rich, accumulating this stock, I would have had the impression of selling my soul.
VeriChip shares jump after H1N1 patent license win
Mon Sep 21, 2009
www.reuters.com/article/wtUS...E58K4BZ20090921
(Reuters) - Shares of VeriChip Corp tripled after the company said it
had been granted an exclusive license to two patents, which will help
it to develop implantable virus detection systems in humans.
The patents, held by VeriChip partner Receptors LLC, relate to
biosensors that can detect the H1N1 and other viruses, and biological
threats such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, VeriChip
said in a statement.
The technology will combine with VeriChip's implantable radio frequency
identification devices to develop virus triage detection systems.
The triage system will provide multiple levels of identification -- the
first will identify the agent as virus or non-virus, the second level
will classify the virus and alert the user to the presence of pandemic
threat viruses and the third level will identify the precise pathogen,
VeriChip said in a white paper published May 7, 2009.
Shares of VeriChip were up 186 percent at $3.28 Monday late afternoon
trade on Nasdaq. They had touched a year high of $3.43 earlier in the
session.-
dead link
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I am going to throw up. How do I get people to wake up and how on earth do we fight this? This is what we do as bloggers but sometimes it feels so overwhelming. If I cannot get people to give a sh@t about health care workers getting fired for not taking the flu vaccine, how am I supposed to get them to see that this is insane?
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www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUSTRE58K4BZ20090921
Recommended read
Why Millions of Americans Don't Need a Swine Flu Vaccine
www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=628%3Awhy-m...-
Thanks Harvey, do you know anything about this site? I would like to post this on my blog but i get emails from people smashing me if the site I pull from is not "valid".
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