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Was Henry Higgins right?
Posted by Epicharis • 5/10/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: women
Here are some of the verses from the song "I'm an ordinary man" from My Fair Lady and I would like to know how many men feel that women behave this way, and women, do you think you behave this way?
Let a woman in your life,
And your serenity is through.
She'll redecorate your home
from the cellar to the dome,
Then go to the enthralling fun
Of overhauling you.
Let a woman in your life,
And you're up against a wall.
Make a plan and you will find
She has something else in mind,
And so rather than do either
You do something else that neither likes at all.
You want to talk of Keats or Milton;
She only wants to talk of love.
You go to see a play or ballet
And spend it searching for her glove.
Let a woman in your life,
And patience hasn't got a chance.
She will beg you for advice.
Your reply will be concise,
And she'll listen very nicely,
Then go out and do precisely what she wants!
Let a woman in your life,
And your sabbatical is through.
In a line that never ends
Come an army of her friends;
Come to jabber and to chatter,
And to tell her what the matter is with you!
User Comments
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I know men who behaved like that. My girlfriends divorced them.
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I do too.
and it's my favorite musical movie too so now I'm singing it
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It's a favorite of mine too. I once played the leading role in a community theater production of Pygmalion.
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I can't hear anything from this musical now without thinking of Wall-E.
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Please. Show me a man who wants to see a play or ballet and I would be totally delighted.
Besides, Henry Higgins was a confirmed bachelor: code for homosexual.-
well...there's quite a lot wrong with that comment!
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Like what?
Most men would rather have their eyes gouged out from their head than see a play or ballet.
And Henry Higgins was a homosexual. Why do you think he lived with Colonel Pickering? -
Maybe the men you know would rather have their eyes gouged out than see a play or ballet, but that doesn't mean that men don't like the theatre.
Henry Higgins is based on Pygmalion, who was not homosexual. Do you have any reason for suggesting Henry Higgins is supposed to be gay other than that he's a bachelor? -
I don't like the ballet, but I like opera and the theatre.
And no, I'm not a "confirmed bachelor". -
@Siuil
Actually, no. The only "guests" that I've had have been female company. I'm taking it that parental visits don't count. -
Siuil, you do realize I am just pushing your buttons and forwarding a theory I once saw on the Family Guy.
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@stillthinking
... lmao -
I get that it's the new game around here but it's getting old very quickly.
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Wow, you're crabby today.
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I'm sorry, I was out of line. Please try to piss me off on purpose some more...
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What is going on? I have been gone all day.
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Why are you surprised that trying to piss me off has the effect of pissing me off?
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I wasn't trying to piss you off. I was joking with you. Clearly someone else has gotten you riled up.
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"There ain't nothin' I can do
Or nothing I can say
That folks don't criticize me
But I'm gonna do what I want to anyway
And I don't care just what people say
If I should take a notion to jump into the ocean
'T ain't nobody's bizness if I do!"
I'm sorry, do I have to answer in show tunes?-
hahaha!
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I could have danced all night
I could have danced all night
And still have begged for more
I could have spread my wings and done a thousand things
I've never done before
I should have known it would be so exciting
I should have known my heart would fly
I only know when he
Began to dance with me
I could have danced, danced, danced! All night!
Yes, I knew this by heart because my mind is a bizarre iron trap for lyrics to musicals. -
Yeah I can relate to some of the versus in the song - Im half the man I used to be when I was single but y'know there are pros and cons to both -
t's rather dull in town, I think I'll take me to Paree.
Mmmmmm.
The mistress wants to open up
The castle in Capri.
Me doctor recommends a quiet summer by the sea!
Mmmm, Mmmm, wouldn't it be loverly?
All I want is a room somewhere,
Far away from the cold night air.
With one enormous chair,
Aow, wouldn't it be loverly?
Lots of choc'lates for me to eat,
Lots of coal makin' lots of 'eat.
Warm face, warm 'ands, warm feet,
Aow, wouldn't it be loverly?
Aow, so loverly sittin' abso-bloomin'-lutely still.
I would never budge 'till spring
Crept over me windowsill.
Someone's 'ead restin' on my knee,
Warm an' tender as 'e can be. 'ho takes good care of me,
Aow, wouldn't it be loverly?
Loverly, loverly, loverly, loverly -
I come at this from a sort of anti Higgins point of view.
I was brought up in similar circumstances to Eliza I suppose and am sort of insulted by the whole premise of the film.
Money equals intelligence and money can deliver learning is a very crass suggestion.-
Interesting analysis. If you had to rewrite this musical, Anin, how would you go about it?
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I don't think that was the premise of the film...Higgins is sculpting Eliza into a lady, not making her intelligent.
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Henry Higgins pretense of molding her into a lady was riddled with condescending notions about money, class, and intelligence. Pygmalion is a critique on how society treats the poor and working class.
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Agreed
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No but the whole premise of the film is he was making her "better" and he was remaking her in his own image so that she wouldn't embarrass him in social situations.
This isn't only a class thing but it's sexist in the extreme. -
Shaw is showing how something as arbitrary as language serves as a device to establish class differences and condemns one set of persons to poverty and degradation and privileges another to wealth and luxury. -
@nothingprofound
Yes, true. Shaw was also ridiculing the idea that the upper class can correct the lower classes. -
Was it a critique of welfare?
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It was a critique that Eliza needed any correcting in the first place. The working class is not inherently inferior to the privileged class, which is what Henry Higgins uses as his initial assumption.
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Yeah exactly! The starting point of the film is the great burden of the rich and how they must do something with the undeserving poor.
The poor in the film have brought it on them selves like Eliza's dad he is lazy and is happy to pimp out his daughter for the price of a drink.
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I think all stereotypes about the differences between men and women are boring as hell. It's not men and women who are different, it's people-individuals-who are different.
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What I was getting at is the fact there are many women I know who behave exactly like this and don't see why they shouldn't. I was curious to see how many people here found it was their experience also.
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@nothingprofound
Well said.
@Siuil
I have met women who behave like what is described in the "I'm an ordinary man" song as well. I don't associate with them because I don't identify with them. I find them to be colossally boring just like the men of the same ilk are. YAWN
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Language as a class barrier exists in all societies to a degree. It is very profoundly evident in the United States. Look at the backlash against Barack Obama during his campaign. He wasn't "black enough" because his language skills reflected his high educational achievement.
In Korea, if you speak with a "country accent" like my father's mother did, you were considered inferior to the well spoken, educated classes that occupied the cities, like my mother's family.-
This is an interesting subject to hear Americans discuss because class is usually a European thing.
What are Americans impressions of class and how do they differ to ours. -
American notions of class are more flexible than European notions of class. We don't have a long history of monarchies, feudal lords and aristocracy.
Our notions of class are more based on money and achievement. Someone like Barack Obama who is highly educated, well spoken and wealthy is considered high class. This is sometimes seen as a betrayal by African Americans who still struggle with racial discrimination, poverty, and often have little to no education.
Of course, there are pretenders to American aristocracy: the Rockefellers, the Vanderbuilts, the Morgans, the Kennedys. In every major American city, there are "old money" society families who strive to imitate European aristocracy with debutante balls and snobbery. Of course, American "old money" was considered "new money" only 100 years ago.
A really good introduction to American attitudes on class are the novels of Edith Wharton, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and a little more contemporary, Richard Yates. -
If this isn't too horrible to point out. Just look at the differences in American members of BC.
In America, being well spoken is highly identified with high achievement and success. You can come from money and still be considered total trash from they way you carry yourself and speak. -
That's quite strange because I wouldn't class Americans. I would class Sil because of her background but I would never defer to her.
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I think most Americans on BC make class assumptions based on language to a certain degree.
It's not a matter of deference. Class in America is not rigid. Anyone can move from one class to another through money and personal achievement. Therefore, one class is not intimated by another. Though some could say that the wealthy are intimidated by the poor.
However flexible class may be in the US, if you speak like an ignoramus, you are assumed to be low class. -
Is "Eyes wide shut" a critique of this?
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I only "Eyes Wide Shut" once and would not know how it fits into this discussion. What scene were you thinking of?
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I wouldn't say that class differences don't intimidate people in the US, just that there is such a large "new money" class that people out to make their fortunes aren't intimidated by it.
It's the "old money" folks that detest climbers and the neoveau riche, and have no compunction about ostracizing and humiliating them. I generally assume that's because they are intimidated by someone who actually had to make their own money, but it could simply be an insular class reaction to "outsiders". The shutting out works both ways, of course, it's just more subtle than the blatant snubbing you read about in English literature.
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"I would class Sil because of her background but I would never defer to her."
And what do you know about my background, eh? I speak with a 'posh' accent so everyone assumes I'm upper middle class at the least, well-moneyed, privileged upbringing blah blah blah. I went to a boarding school so I must have money, daddy pays for everything and mummy plays bridge with the ambassador's wife...all that kind of thing? My boarding school was means-tested and 80% of pupils went there for free and I was there on a scholarship anyway.-
Errrrr yeah!
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I was thinking of how even though he was a part of them he was never really a part of them.
His money bought him semi access but whatever he did he was still the hired help.-
Sort of. That goes along with what I was saying about American pretenders to aristocracy. They have little to actually separate them from "upstarts".
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wrong spot
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