Discussions
What To Do With Rapists?
Posted by Timesobserver • 8/27/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: kidnap, rape
Jaycee Lee Dugard was allegedly kidnapped and raped for the last 18 years.
What type of punishment should her alleged kidnapper, if he's guilty, get?
For my take, check out my blog:
www.thetimesobserver.com
User Comments
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Return the favor threefold with something spiky or sandpapery. -
they haven't made the words up yet,for what those parasites of the earth deserve. -
Actually if rapists and pedophiles are given lengthy prison sentences they usually have a very rough time in prison...Skinners are beat up and tortured by the other prisoners and most often are segegrated... -
still to good they deserve worse
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this is another fight that I'm not willing to take on at the moment. I'll be back tho...
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Remove the offending appendages, then lock up in jail for twice the amount of time he kidnapped the girl. -
well, by putting the people who kidnapped her in prison, they're going to get butt raped and broom raped. so, really, prison would be the best punishment.-
I agree... so long as they don't get protective custody. I hate protective custody
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It's interesting that you guys want to torture this guy if he's guilty. A couple people from another forum have suggested that he get the death penalty.
I had no idea you guys could be so blood thirsty.
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(Licks blood off knife.) What me? NNNOOOOO.....
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The death penalty is an easy way out for them. -
...eyes knife collection in china cabinet..
Bloodthirsty? Those are just ....ah..hunting knives. Yeah. That's it. Souvenirs from my days in Child Protective Service social work.
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send them to me with 5 gallons of acid. I'd take care of them. no mess, no fuss. -
What was this guy doing out on the streets anyway? He was a convicted child rapist on "lifetime parole." Why did his parole not include a prohibition against being near children?
I find it inconceivable that in the 18 years this girl (and the two children, now ages 15 and 11) were living in this man's back yard that the parole officers did not once check the maze of outbuildings and crap in his back yard...just ONE thorough search would have released her...and keeping him in the slammer would have saved her.
I think the authorities who let him go free...and the ones who failed in their duty to adequately monitor him...bear a considerable amount of responsibility for this tragedy as well.
I am against capital punishment, but this man should have received life without parole the first time around. -
I'm sure torturing them by placing them in jail would be punishment for THEM. But what about the victems. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has experiance sexual abuse first hand...but personally when you've been left with that kind of memory...KNOWING that that person could disregard you as a human so easily and is still walking around under the light of God on this earth makes your skin crawl.
I think the only rightful punishment is a clean and quiet execusion.-
Unfortunately, our legal system too often makes mistakes and convicts the wrong person. Once a person has died, you cannot give them back their lives or return them to their families, if they were incorrectly convicted. If only ONE wrongly convicted person is spared...and some people have waited on death row for more than 20 years before being exonerated...then life in prison without parole is the right thing for all convicted of these crimes.
All that said, why was this convicted child rapist out on "lifetime parole"? And why, since he lived in the same place for 18 years with this girl living in a shed in his back yard, did the Parole Department not thoroughly search his back yard even once? Just ONE thorough search is all it would have taken to find this girl and in 18 years, it never happened. -
@ Violet: Well put. -
Lotusb, I'm very sorry to hear what happened to you.
SweetViolet, if you read my editorial, I stated that in extreme cases where the person is truly guilty and there is no doubt about that guilt, and especially if they confess, then using the death penalty should be used.
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Castration!...rapists will never stop if you don't.-
What if you were convicted of a rape you didn't commit (I actually know someone this happened to)? How do we restore you to full functionality as a man ten years later when the truth is finally discovered?
Wouldn't it be better to lock these people away to keep others safe from them and, if it is later discovered that they actually did not do the crime, release them with all their parts intact and a pocket full of compensation? -
I should have referred to 'serial' rapists should be castrated. This way we all make sure the guilty are punished. Good point SweetV.
I hope that makes more sense. -
Castration hasn't been proven to work and the penis isn't the only weapon a man uses to abuse children or women. -
I agree, jafa. There are some who think that the reduction in testosterone will fix the problem but I disagree since rape really not about sex...sex is the weapon, the motivation comes from somewhere in the big head, not the little one.
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castration! -
It's pretty obvious that our rapist-release situation is a result of class warfare aimed at keeping poor people in their place and having their daughters keep getting raped and kidnapped.
Why hasn't everybody caught on to this?! -
castration for male rapists and flagellation for female rapists.
www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=12494...
malechauvinist.blogspot.com/2009/07/another-female-rapist.html-
I am so with you.
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if there was a job opening at the rapist/pedophile executioning/torturing factory, i'd volunteer to work there. i'd do it with no remorse, no emotion.
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So many people have been saying that around here and other places.
Here's a new question for you guys: Should we tell our elected leaders that we want tougher punishments for rapists and kidnappers? After all, in America, it is the people who are supposed to have the power.
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I rather like the process used by some Native American relatives. After beating the dickens out of the child rapist/murderer, he was tied to two crossed saplings. The saplings, bent to the ground and staked down, literally tore the perp apart when the ropes were cut.
Not only does swift & severe punishment act as a deterrent, there are no repeat offenders and it saves taxpayer dollars. -
Anyone who has been convicted more than once of rape should be locked up and the key should be thrown away. I know some people might be surprised that I have this view--but I have absolutely no sympathy for rapists.
I strongly believe that most people who rape repeatedly cannot be rehabilitated. I believe in giving a person *one chance* with a heavy sentence and real emphasis on rehabilitation. The reason I say that people should be given a second chance is that we all know that wrongful convictions happen all the time. More than 100 people have been released from *Death Row* because of DNA evidence proving them innocent. There are always innocent people who are wrongly convicted.
But if a person has been convicted more than once--AND gone through rehabilitation and treatment and then RAPES AGAIN? Eff 'em! Throw away the key. Same with child molesters. And murderers for that matter. Anyone who is convicted of these types of crimes more than once doesn't deserve a third chance. -
I would like to comment on this section.
Being a previous victim of rape who went on to do RAPE Victim advocacy I have dealt with the feelings that vary from hurt and silence to pain and rage ---- and everything from the spectrum range.
As a very touchy topic, I think that the victim should be the one to be a major proponent in the sentencing.
In fact I think the victim should ALWAYS be a part of the sentencing.
This would stop a lot of false accusations.
But it would also give the victim the opportunity to close the book on the situation. It would be justice.
The only case scenario situation I think this would be difficult in - is where the victim has started identifying with the rapist. As does happen in some cases.
Personally tho - a human being who has locked up someone or several people - for years - for their lives... And abused them...
I feel that what was done to the victim - should be done to them.
Eye - for an eye.
I believe - in my heart - that what comes around - goes around.-
I'm very sorry to hear what happened to you.
But I do agree: An eye for an eye. -
Wager, we have much in common. I am so sorry you experienced such horror. That you could survive, says much. That you could become an advocate and counselor speaks volumes to the strength and resiliency of your spirit. Well done, girl. Well done.
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Also, good call regarding the Stockholm Syndrome. -
I would have been satisified to see the man who raped and abused me for 6 years get 6 years plus 6 plus 15 years it took for me to recover, but he only served 2 years our of 7 for good behaviour. Who cares if he behaved well in prison, it was outside he didn't behave. to add insult to injury he got free counseling and career counseling/training and help to find a job, meanwhile no counseling for me and my education was up shit creek (no help with that at all).
I think what disturbs me is the continued attitude of a legal system that seems to take sexual abuse/rape so lightly. YES lightly, because they continue to give short sentences, early parole to men who have devastated the lives of others, and will continue to do so. Everyone screams castrate them, kill em, bla bla bla, when something happens, but attention spans are short and there is no momentum and rallying cry to continue to demand changes to a legal system that allows these men to continue unabated. -
I think victim statements are unconstitutional, and that the victim should never have any say whatsoever in sentencing. Our criminal justice system was specifically designed to prevent that kind of emotional, personal reaction playing a part in the decision-making process. Victim involvement, victim statements, etc. have crept back in gradually over the past few decades, moving us closer and closer to the "let the victim's family take care of it" mentality that our system was created to protect against.
More importantly in my mind, "equal protection of the laws" is not extended to all victims under our current system. The current system of drama from the victim, the family, emotional pictures and video tape and the like clearly places a higher value on some lives and some people than others--the pretty college girl with dozens of friends and family members to testify at sentencing is worth more than the homeless man who has no one to speak up for him. Again, something that our system of laws intended to avoid completely--we don't have one penalty for "murder of someone we deem worthwhile, who people care about" and another for "people who aren't that significant". But we're effectively moving in that direction, even if it's not reflected in the written law.
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Well I was going to try and say something funny, but recognizing the serious nature of events many of you have dealt with in relation to this topic, I'll refrain.-
You could say anything funny - To me - I think it's important not to be upset by anything concerning this issue. Keep in mind this: I believe that RAPE is not ALWAYS about sexual assault - it is about control/manipulation/anger - and allowing a rapist to have control over your feelings many years down the road is giving him/her/it power that they do NOT deserve.
But you do show excellent feelings for others there...
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Suppose your husband/father/son/brother was convicted of rape? Suppose you know for a fact he didn't do it because he was with you at the time...but he gets convicted anyway.
How do you feel about draconian punishments like castration, torture, dismemberment or death, all of which have been suggested here, being applied to your innocent loved one?
This has actually happened. People have been convicted of rape and murder when they did not do it. In one case a man was positively identified by the rape victim and he was exonerated more than a decade later because the real rapist bragged about getting away with it and a DNA test freed the wrongly convicted man. Suppose he had been executed, tortured, castrated or even killed? Suppose he was one of YOUR loved ones.
I can relate to the victims, having been one myself, but empathy for the victim cannot go to the degree of torturing or killing an innocent, wrongly convicted man.-
I certainly agree with you SweetViolet and I'm sorry to hear what happened to you.
However, in my column, I state that the death penalty should be used against rapists whose guilt is beyond doubt, that the evidence is against them and if possible, they confessed to the crime. -
TO, there was actually a case of rape in which the victim absolutely, with no doubt or hesitation whatsoever, identified a man as her attacker and he was convicted and sent to prison. There was absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind that he was guilty.
Problem is, she was wrong. He didn't do it...even though she was positively convinced he was the rapist...and he was later exonerated with DNA evidence. But if I remember the case correctly, it took something like 19 years for justice to be done.
Suppose their state executed rapists for whom they had "no doubt" of their guilt? They had no doubt of that man's guilt...how do you compensate a man for wrongfully taking his life? -
there have been so many cases of men convicted of rape, even when the victim was sure it was them and dna have shown they were innocent.
all these men were convicted and served time dues to false confessions, mis identification etc.
www.innocenceproject.org/know/Search-Profiles.php?check=check&title=&yearCo...
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Firing squad.-
"Timothy Brian Cole died in a Texas prison in 1999 while serving a 25-year sentence for a rape he didn’t commit. Nearly a decade later, DNA evidence from the crime posthumously exonerated Cole and implicated another man as the perpetrator."
www.innocenceproject.org/know/Search-Profiles.php?check=check&title=&yearCo...
"Nancy DePriest was raped and murdered in her work place in Austin, Texas in 1988. Chris Ochoa pled guilty to the murder of DePriest and his friend, Richard Danziger, was convicted of rape. Ochoa had confessed to the crime and had implicated Danziger. It would be discovered, however, that his confession was coerced and that neither man had anything to do with the slaying or raping of DePriest."
Contributing Causes: Eyewitness Misidentification, Government Misconduct led to this man getting 39 years."In February 1992, Albert Johnson, engaged to be married and with children, was stopped for speeding, arrested, prosecuted, and convicted of two counts of sexual assault. He was sentenced to 39 years in prison. The police had been alerted to a rape committed that evening by a black man driving a small white car. On the basis of that information alone, Johnson became the prime suspect. Ultimately, he would be convicted of both that rape and a second in a nearby city."
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But if they're going to be in prison for the rest of their life, why not place them on death row? If there is a mountain of evidence against the person, he already has a previous record and if there is a confession, maybe taking away his right to appeal and put him on death row might be the answer, as I stated in my blog.
That way, tax payers don't have to pay for his food, shelter and medical care. -
It is not unknown for people to confess to things they didn't do, particularly when faced with enough evidence to convict them.
I think we need to err on the side of caution when we are dealing with people's lives. There is no way to ever be absolutely certain of a person's guilt so it doesn't make sense to impose an absolutely irreversible penalty. -
But in a lot of cases, SweetViolet, we know for 100 percent that the person is guilty of the crime. Look at Jeffrey Dahmer. There was more than enough evidence and he should have gotten the death penalty instead of 957 years behind bars.
Although, justice was served in the end, it was not by the state though. -
Spend some time looking at the profiles of men who were convicted and spent years in prison for rapes/assaults they didn't commit.
Look at the contributing causes of their convictions and yet they were all found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
www.innocenceproject.org/know/Search-Profiles.php?check=check&title=&yearCo... -
Very true Jafabrit, which is why there should be strict guidelines for rapists. However, there are more guilty than innocent people in prison and their guilt is not questioned.
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TO, you say "in a lot of cases" and then mention a highly unusual case. In fact, "100% certainty" is extremely rare, and much more likely to apply in cases of relatively petty crimes than crimes like rape and murder.
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"However, there are more guilty than innocent people in prison and their guilt is not questioned."
There are enough innocent people who were found guilty to make the case to execute rapists a dangerously unfair solution. -
Well, MadameX, when I said most in prison are guilty, I wasn't only speaking about rapists.
But it seems as if this guy is guilty. But there was another man who was recently arrested in Cambodia for molesting kids over there. Now, he's an American and he went to prison for nine years for molesting and probably raping more than 500 children since the 1960s.
Do you know why he got out of jail? Because the stupid jury in 2004 couldn't decide if he would commit those same crimes again.
That guy certainly should have gotten the death penalty.
And on a side note, why did Kbrummell's comment was removed? I don't think it was bad or anything. -
"Now, he's an American and he went to prison for nine years for molesting and probably raping more than 500 children since the 1960s."
Well you just proved my point about the current justice system and the need for an attention span by the public to last longer than one case and demand changes. Instead people cry, oh rape him back, cut off limbs, execute them, then interest seems to wane until the next outrage, but do they actually take the time to write to public officials and demand LONGER sentences, NO PAROLE. Have YOU??????? -
TO, I'm confused by your story here. Was he tried in the U.S. or in Cambodia? Why would a jury be considering the likelihood of recidivism? How is it that the death penalty was in play?
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Jafabrit, I have written for longer sentences or stronger punishments.
MadameX, sorry for the confusion. He's an American and when he committed his crimes before 2004, it was in America. But once he got out of prison, he moved to Cambodia, where there almost seems to be an industry that caters to sick people like him.
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cut his c**k off -
That way, tax payers don't have to pay for his food, shelter and medical care.
That is one of the problems with the justice system. Someone commits a crime against society, then society has to pay for it. Where is the sense in that. That is why I believe work programs should be in place.
No, not just plates, but work where the money they make, supports their state stay.
As far as a violent rapist / child rapist, if convicted and proven guilty beyond reasonable, then they should be on the border of violent criminal and Mentally Ill. There should be a wing for all such offender. Keep them all together.
Heavy Meds, and heavy work load.
The problem with the system is it is a free for all once inside, it helps no one and produces nothing and is a wastes of all kinds of money. CO's are letting drugs in, turning their cheeks for gang raping in the prisons. That seems to be ok, why are the laws on the inside different than the laws on the out side? How will anyone learn?-
I'm in 100% agreement with SV's views on this subject. Isolation from society, not brutality, is the answer.
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For the rapist the punishment must be "an eye for an eye.." -
What does eye for a eye mean.
Whose in charge of raping the rapist? We hire professional rapers?
Eye for an eye means evened up.
If a man rapes a woman in the vagina, does he get a pass for not having one?
Does the victim get to do a spoon job on their rapist?
What is of equal value?
Does the husband of a raped woman get to rape the wife of the rapist?
The act of the rape, the emotional shock one has to live with, would sticking a ice pick in his eye make a victim feel better?
Eye for an Eye
You kill one of mine I kill one of yours?
Just too vague of a comment. -
"Eye for an Eye" is the Code of Hammurabi. If somebody has done evil with his fingers then the penalty is by cutting off the fingers. If the child of another person has died because of the other person then the other person's child will be put to death as well. If the genital organ was the main reason of getting a women raped then the rapist's genital organ shall be cut off!
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"If the child of another person has died because of the other person then the other person's child will be put to death as well."
OMG, are you seriously suggesting that a rapist's child be put to death?
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I understand that, but it's still vague. when the code was written there was no drunk drivers lets say, so the code has to be re invented with each new way to harm someone one. I get the whole eye for an eye concept. Under certain conditions there should be just that, If someone hurts a child a parent should get have his way with them.
Every custom deals with crime in different ways, so we'll get different responses here.
I think cutting off a pecker will only make a rapist madder and his next victim will pay dearly.-
Uh, if it's cut off, there won't BE another victim!
I'm not agreeing with the Bobbit tactic, just sayin'...
I think you HAVE to be mentally ill to commit such a crime. -
@Anniepooh
That's not necessarily true. Rape isn't about sex, it's more a psychological thing, domination and humiliation, that sort of stuff. You don't need a penis to dominate and humiliate someone. A person who's disturbed enough to assault someone but doesn't have a penis will just use something else instead. A broom, a stick, a cactus... And I imagine being emasculated will only add to the fury to be taken out on the next person.
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cage the rapist with a dozen horny llamas!-
FAIL
Good idea though, but I was thinking elephants...
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i found the solution, meet my hero: the vigilante.
www.thatsphucked.com/post/2009/09/Revenge-Is-A-Bitch.aspx#comment
don't click if violence scares you. -
Does anyone notice that the word 'therapist' is THE RAPIST together?
I've noticed no one in this thread suggested sending rapists to therapists!-
LMFAO!!!!! I NEVER noticed this. arggggggg!!!!1
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WE are talking about how to punish those who commit sex crimes. Many sex offenders in prison receive therapy, but there is little evidence to support it helps. Have you seen the recidivism rates (which has been talked about by some in this thread).
"Unfortunately, the available studies tell us very little about what is perhaps the most important question: Does treatment reduce recidivism?... The recidivism rates for the treated groups are not consistently better than the nontreated groups ... So it cannot be said that ... (anybody's) recidivism study provides strong evidence in favor of the positive effects of treatment (pp.136-137).
www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume3/j3_1_2.htm
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Rape them back-
Most prisoners face this, bfd! They get raped and then get out on parole and still go and rape and kill. Jaycee's kidnapper served only 10 years out of a 50 year sentence. I think most victims will tell you they want to see these pigs serve TIME, long TIME, and not get pathetic sentences or released early.
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how about hiring bruno @ borat to rape them? hahaha
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i think jafabrit is right. They need to be kept out of circulation.
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what do you mean by "They need to be kept out of circulation"? Is that kind of punish them to stay inside the rapist-only jail facility?
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FWIW, the U.S. Supreme Court has explicitly rejected the death penalty as a possible penalty for rape, even the rape of a child, on 8th Amendment grounds.
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Ah, I was unaware of that. For some reason, I've always considered child rape to be worthy of the death penalty. Must be bias shining through. -
The Louisiana Supreme Court agrees with you, Kobra, but they didn't get the last word.
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Amputate his penis.-
what if he is proven innocent?
www.innocenceproject.org/know/Search-Profiles.php?check=check&title=&yearCo...
People keep coming up with these lame knee jerk reactions, but do you ever take the time to demand changes in the law what would keep these perps off the street, do YOU? -
Sadly, FatX, cutting off some guy's penis, even if he was guilty, may not stop him. I read one case where a guy couldn't get it up but he still could abuse his victims by using other means.
Jafabrit, I understand the need not to use extreme punishments on people accused of crimes. That's why I'm for certain guide lines that need to be met before giving out extreme punishments.
But like it or not, there are many criminals that are guilty, that the evidence is against them and sometimes they do confess. How about Jeffrey Dahmer? He raped, murdered and ate his victims. He should have gotten the death penalty right away. -
what do you mean like or not, it isn't a matter of like it or not. As for dahmer, if it's punishment you want people like him to get, he got it daily in prison until he was murdered. Executing him is a cop out, making him live with the consequences of his actions isn't.
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Jafabrit, monsters like Dahmer don't "live with the consequences of (their) actions". They don't have any regrets and given a chance, most if not all, will do it again.
Executing them right away is not a cop out. It ensures that the public is safe from such a monster and that the public does not have to worry about their release or paying for their health care, food and shelter for the rest of their lives. -
"It ensures that the public is safe from such a monster and that the public does not have to worry about their release or paying for their health care, food and shelter for the rest of their lives."
dahmer did face the consequence, he was caught, convicted and sentenced to 15 life terms, with no chance of parole and was always in danger of being attacked, had been attacked and then ultimately murdered in prison. As to what he felt or regretted or not, I don't gives a rat's bottom.
Since it costs more to execute criminals the argument against housing him for life doesn't wash. -
Well jafabrit, as you may already know, putting executing murderers only costs more because of appeals and court reviews.
That's why I think in extreme cases, such as Dahmer, they should be executed right away. Besides, he's going to get 15 life terms, with no chance of parole, you might as well execute him and save the tax payers a lot of money, since lethal injection cost very little compared to housing a murderer for life.
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Cut it off or have someone rape them. Best answer that I can come up with for tonight -
Frankly, I don't understand this bloodlust. Why isn't life in prison without parole a suitable punishment even for Jeffrey Dahmer?
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Ihave had it done to me and it brings really bad feelings with it. I had a gun held to my head and I knew the person that did it to me. I guess that is the reason for my statement
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Rape is a crime of power the "thrill" for the rapist is the power he or she has over his or her victim -- the power to violate. There have been cases of females using objects to rape their victims. Hopefully we are likewise aware that removing a penis would not stop the rapist from using other means (I will not become graphic - think objects) to violate victims.-
No but it probably would make most men think long and hard before trying it again with anything.
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Excuse me but although the majority of all rapists are men surely you are aware that there are women who also rape others using objects. And "no" these sick for life puppies do not use logic in the way you indicate at all. Deterrence is not guaranteed by amputation and the psychological indications seem to lean in the other direction. Lopping off a penis would not make any male rapist think twice about not raping again. They are obsessed with thoughts and dreams and schemes of using their power to violate others again and again. Hence the psychological implications are that a male rapist, who has had his "tool" lopped off may indeed seek and find even worse tools to use on future victims in even more violent ways.
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They always deserve rigorous punishment. -
What to do with them? well, they've obviously sexually assaulted another human being against their will. shouldn't they be punished as well? I'd say they should do time, or this could be a good chance for psychologists and doctors to do research experiments on rapists.-
I'm all for studying these monsters to find out what makes them do what they do and hopefully, researchers can discover a way to prevent future rapists, if it's possible.
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Death in any way shape or form cause anything less is pointless -
Not fond of doing time though, prisons specially in the UK is too comfortable, you get gym, satellite TV, regular team activities, free food etc etc. -
oh my darlings....ok, first of all, rape is not about the sexual act itself, per se, it is about the man exerting control and power over the woman (in a stereotypical instance of rape). He uses the tool of forced sexual intercourse as the means to exert his power/control/degradation over a woman. That's why they will typically take a token from the woman - her panties, something from her room - so that she will know he has a piece of her.
that being said, and having survived a brutal rape at the age of 17, here's my offering - #1 frontal labotomies so they can't even think beyond the age of a child and #2 render their dicks forever limp.-
I am truly sorry to hear what you went through.
As far as your suggestion, that sounds good enough to me! -
no need to apologize - you didn't do anything and I'm a survivor, not a victim.
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Great attitude you have there!
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Guys, since a few of you have recently commented on it, here is a direct link to my editorial:
www.thetimesobserver.com/kidnap_justice.php -
Its rlly sad to here that...
Once a guy raped a 15yr old girl near ba ma place...police treated him very well..they gave him shock rite from the hole of pen!$....i bet he wasn't proud of his dick anymore... -
Two Words: General Population
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