Blog Catalog Discussion: Where have our brave men gone?

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 16:19:06 -0500

Excellent TimMc I see your strength of character.
This is what I am speaking of. Our kids today are abused so much that they do not know how to successfully apply their "will" towards coming out of the wrong path and they may dwell on the wrong path and do something they and society will later come to regret.
We are not helping them and this is why we are having destructive behaviours like Columbine being played out over and over.
There has to be a way for us to effectively learn to use our negative past and our negativity towards a positive outcome. It's ashame that my negativity discussion was blocked but this is what I was trying to get at in that discussion a while back. We are not learning to effectively apply our negativity and there are no classes being taught in school on this subject and how to effectively apply it towards the greater good. What a shame.

timethief on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

timethief — Wed, 14 May 2008 16:03:52 -0500

"The choice to not see yourself as a victim and in turn create more victims is a hard one."

Amen. We can make the choice to break the cycle.

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 16:05:37 -0500

The days are gone for ladylikes and southern bells. We now have survival to think about.
I wear sneakers now because I take the Train to commute during the day
and I may have to clear a few heads if there is a bomb scare in the subway.
The days of being ladylike and southern bells are gone for me. Sorry.

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 16:02:44 -0500

Jonnyontheball I wonder how many people actually realize this
because growing up all I heard was women are lazy.

A marriage should be a loving environment where one is not afraid to give freely
and other should not be afraid to take and interchange sometimes too.
One doesn't have to play the same role all the time but can change the role around
to learn about the other half and appreciate the other half more.
I still remember the day when my mother took time to make a fish dinner
and my Father came home and cussed her out because he didn't want fish.
She slapped him in the face with a whole wet fish. I still laugh about it.
After all she bought the fish with her money, cleaned it, cooked it and he came to the table whining that he doesn't want fish. Well he had plenty of fish that night. lmao

TimMc on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

TimMc — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:44:28 -0500

@Juenelle: I too can relate to the 'clinched fist' as a kid. My father left when I was 7. I have NEVER seen or heard from him since. I'll be 40 this year. That was a crushing blow to me as a child. However, in spite of the hardship there were men from my church and school who stepped in voluntarily to make sure that I stayed on a path filled with wise choices instead of easily heading down a path of destructive behavior.

The hard part for men and women who have been in negative family situations is to consciously be willing to break the cycle. The choice to not see yourself as a victim and in turn create more victims is a hard one. Unfortunately, there aren't enough older, wiser men and women who are willing to step up and deal with younger kids, young married couples, first time parents and mentor them through that process.

I fortunately had people who were very willing to take a chance on me. Thankfully, their risk has paid off. :) Now it's my turn to pay it forward...

greekgourmand on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

greekgourmand — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:35:58 -0500

One could just as easily ask "Where have the ladylike women gone?"... Provide me with an answer to my question and you will have the answer to yours.

:-)

jonnyontheball on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

jonnyontheball — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:38:25 -0500

As the saying goes.....

"BEHIND EVERY GREAT MAN THERE IS A GREAT WOMAN"

(Oh.... did I just put that down in writing?)

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:26:05 -0500

Excellent list jonnyontheball but let's not forget that Women are also housed under the word Men and a list of strong women should also be seen and yes I welcome both.

Wow MadameX I didn't hear this News as yet but it is great news she survived,
sad news the Father died. Bravery comes in many forms.

A woman who gives birth and then dies right after birth.
A woman who takes nothing for herself and sacrifices everything for her family.
A man that returns home after fighting in the Middle East.
I am sure there are lots of great deeds out there but the Media seems more interested
in other pressing matters.

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:06:14 -0500

Excellent point TimMc.
This goes to women too. I am learning to control my angers
but boy growing up was hard for me and I went around with a clenched fist all the time
some of which was necessary because I became my Mothers and Sisters protector.
It is good now that I am getting a bit older I have loosen my clenched fist just a little.
We should definitely have more outlets for teenagers to go to get some relief with anger
and other emotional issues and provide classes in school that teaches ways to unwind.
Not just with problems at home but media negative coverage too.
None of that is creating any healthy environments for children.

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:56:35 -0500

And Yes MadameX you have raised a great new point.
There are always going to be some hidden flaws within the family.
Incest, abuse, beatings, domestic violence, rapes will be kept in the closet.
Unless we speak out about it from home and come forward.
I came forward with some of my growing up here in this discussion and I brought you all somewhat into my life growing up but there is a lot of other more painful issues
I did not discuss with you and will keep to myself to work out. I am still working it out.
My Mother is still working out hers and so the world goes.

MadameX on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

MadameX — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:52:41 -0500

Just recently we had a local news story about a man who was walking with his four year old daughter when a car came barreling toward them. Unable to get out of the way quickly enough, he raised the child over his head--he died, but she survived.

jonnyontheball on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

jonnyontheball — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:49:57 -0500

Brave men.. eh..... how about these, but in no particular order...

1) Christopher Reeve - Through illness
2) Nelson Mandela - Sacrifice & principal
3) Bobby Sands - Hunger strike
4) Richard Branson - 245 miles per hour, in a balloon!
5) Eddie the Eagle - 73.5 metres at Calgary - ski jump as a non pro
6) Buzz Aldrin - Fired into space in a rocket
7) Professor Steven Hawkin - Just an amazing man
8) Thousands of troops fighting abroad - for others
9) Regular firemen attending a fire risking their lives everywhere
10) Lifeboatmen & lifeguards, doctors, surgeons etc etc

Enough?........ ??

But as you say "Where the heck are they?"

Answer: Everywhere... we only have to look.

timethief on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

timethief — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:50:49 -0500

@TimMC
"My role as a husband, father and a man is to lead by example. Men who lead with violence, anger and bitterness really have no place in the role of father or husband."

Exactly.

offendedblogger on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

offendedblogger — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:45:56 -0500

Wow, Tiffany. I'm sure the attitudes at a lot of shelters feed into the stereotype that all men are abusers.

Growing up with a mother who physically, emotionally and psychologically abused my father (who never fought back - he just took it) gave me a much different perspective, I believe.

I saw how vulnerable a man can be and therefore knew deep down that not all of them are capable of abuse.

oxymoran on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

oxymoran — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:45:24 -0500

You called.

MadameX on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

MadameX — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:38:19 -0500

Jeunelle, I don't dispute that any of those men are loving and caring fathers, but I don't know--and neither do you. After years of working with victims of domestic violence and children who had been placed with social services, I can tell you definitively that the values someone pays lip service to in public and what goes on at home are often VERY different.

Again, this is NOT IN ANY WAY directed at the specific men you've named--just a caution about the very idea of "identifying loving and caring fathers" by what they've said in an internet forum

TimMc on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

TimMc — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:37:31 -0500

I'm the father of 4 children, been married to my wife for 17 years. I love my family and take good care of them.

Unfortunately, the media folks don't want to do stories about the hard working, loving fathers that are out there (and yes, there are lots of them). Instead, they focus on the scourge and sensationalize it. They tend to misrepresent the minority and present it as the majority, which unfortunately has a very negative impact on the view of fatherhood as a whole.

I don't rely on the media to form my opinions on people. Personal experience is a much more effective gauge of the world around me.

Yes, I do know men who have abused their wives. I know wives who have cheated on their husbands. There are families with problems around me. However, do I shun them? No. I do let them know that their behavior is errant (when the opportunity arises). I do encourage those folks (particularly women) to remove themselves from dangerous situations. I have, in close, personal situations assisted in that separation.

My role as a husband, father and a man is to lead by example. Men who lead with violence, anger and bitterness really have no place in the role of father or husband.

ekim941 on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

ekim941 — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:35:05 -0500

MadameX. It seem that some people are very quick to generalize. It's good to know that there are others out there that see things more rationally.

MadameX on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

MadameX — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:30:10 -0500

I ran into a very serious conflict on this issue years ago, in the first domestic violence shelter where I volunteered. The overarching philosophy there was that the residents had to be protected from all men. While it definitely makes sense that resident programs like that are careful about who they let in the doors of the physical shelter, it seemed to me (even at 18) that it was counter-productive to create an environment for children that was entirely free of positive male role models. I never made any headway--the director of the program referred to my concern as an effort to "protect men from the consequences of their own actions" and I eventually found a more positive environment in which to volunteer.

ekim941 on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

ekim941 — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:24:42 -0500

I was having a Dr. Phil moment :)

I know, that's pretty deep for me. After I wrote it I had to make fart noises with my armpit as a reality check :)

offendedblogger on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

offendedblogger — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:23:13 -0500

Ha!

You are so wrong it is pathetic.

OK, maybe you are a little right.

Alright, you nailed it.

Men.

Ugh!!

:p

ekim941 on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

ekim941 — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:19:14 -0500

I think you just proved my point. Feed your insecurities, eat only the bad and spit out the good :)

offendedblogger on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

offendedblogger — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:16:29 -0500

Wow, maybe you are right but...

HOW DARE YOU DISAGREE WITH ME?!!

Men.

Ugh.

:)

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 13:57:33 -0500

I commend you for being a good father and sticking with it RTBjr73, this is good for us to know.
We need to hear and see more positive examples not just men but women also.

RTBjr73 on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

RTBjr73 — Wed, 14 May 2008 13:49:39 -0500

I guess I should have said this earlier, but I am a proud parent on three boys. The oldest being from a prior relationship, where I had to spend over 10,000 US dollars (some I borrowed from MY Dad). It was worth every penny.

I wouldn't trade them for the world.

ekim941 on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

ekim941 — Wed, 14 May 2008 13:34:11 -0500

Actually Chelle, I don't think that it is the psychology that is being used against us but rather the psychology we use on ourselves. If we have a belief that men are evil we will look for stories that support this belief and accept them as "The norm". Conversely, stories of good men will be ignored or forgotten.

People tend to encapsulate themselves with their fears or insecurities and filter out anything that might invoke a change in thinking. In most cases, I believe that you will find that people have a tendency to feed their own negativity and rarely rely on others to do it for them.

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 13:24:26 -0500

So far I have identified Ekim941, momscrazylife's husband, gerryPlanetEarth, balidreamhome, crkian, muscles68, BennyGreenburg, misterDog and ibcarlos as loving and caring Fathers.

If I missed anyone please come forward and so you can be known and appreciated. Nice Job Guy's. This is good to see and very encouraging, a good start on this discussion thread.

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 13:08:35 -0500

Exactly thank you for bringing the truth out in the open without insulting. Nice work rottengods.

We all have our part to play and I have played mine well.
Are you doing what you should be doing?
Are you taking care of your family?

If the answer is YES then I commend you, we need more like you in this world, if this world is to survive.

offendedblogger on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

offendedblogger — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:47:08 -0500

If we aren't aware of the psychology being used against us, it is is easy to allow the media to terribly distort our perceptions of the world around us.

We start to distrust all men, thinking that even if they appear to be one of the 'good guys' they are capable of the very worst. For women, we are predisposed to feeding this fear and distrust because we are typically the targets of rapists and serial killers.

Maybe this is why a lot of women love gay men? They are safer in our minds? :)

rottengods on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

rottengods — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:46:22 -0500

I guess it would be better if we ask, where are our brave human race? Because being brave is part of human race...in the current world society where sex sells more than book, when sex Scandal makes a prostitute, famous! what do you expect? This is society mam. all of us, all in together should be blamed, regardless of gender. Because if our women were strong enough who value family values like our mothers than current new social stigmas...then you would not need to ask that question.

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:45:05 -0500

Exactly offendedblogger and mikeny07 and we have to find ways to counteract it.
We should be teaching ways to relax and tune off in schools and other places where people gather.
I watch Asian women across the street from me in the morning unwinding with Tai Chi and it's soothing to watch. We need more places like these for people to unwind and get their minds off the daily negative bombarding subliminal messages we are receiving.

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:36:26 -0500

I will decide what answer works best for me.
I will be satisfied with the answer when I see it.
My soul would know the answer when it feels it
so you don't get to tell me what the answer is for me.
I will know the answer when I come to it.

mikeny07 on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

mikeny07 — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:35:39 -0500

Exactly. Show me those 99.994% of men who are not for a change.

offendedblogger on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

offendedblogger — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:34:03 -0500

It is because fear is a tool.

People actually become addicted to being afraid, and whether a person realizes it or not, that is what the news feeds us ~ a daily dose of fear. :)

mikeny07 on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

mikeny07 — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:30:15 -0500

They do this with the sex offender coverage a lot. Making everyone think you have to lock the kids inside forever.

About 600,000 sex offenders living in this country. But you have about 100 million males over 18.

You know what percent this comes out to? About a half of one percent. But yet they show news on this every week.

.006

Jeunelle on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

Jeunelle — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:25:00 -0500

You may use it TT and this is great but this is also something that should be taught in schools for kids to learn how to handle emotional distress, depression, anger and negativity.
We would probably see a reduction in kids walking into schools with guns.

Yes mikeny07 something should be done about the media and negativity.
I wonder if the US Government is doing these kinds of negative media coverage to run test on us like lab rats. It sure makes you think why the news has become more and more negative over the last few decades. Maybe it has more to do with selling their Zoloft prescription medication via Pharmaceutical companies. The US Government is also running test right now in Alaska to control weather patterns and send messages to you subliminally, another form of mental controlling. Lord knows what else they are working on.

mikeny07 on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

mikeny07 — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:09:06 -0500

It is hard today though. They put the same news articles online. Then people also bring them up in forums all over the internet.

You would have to lock yourself in a room to avoid any negative news. That is like 99% of the articles online.

RTBjr73 on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

RTBjr73 — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:08:58 -0500

sensationalism...the eighth deadly sin...lol

timethief on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

timethief — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:15:41 -0500

The media deliver the messages that their audience wants to hear. They also craft what the messages that they deliver through their reporting into the style and form that the majority of their audiences prefer.

We all have the option of exercising our individual responsibility to preserve and protect our health own mental and emotional health. It's called a "power off" switch. I use it and wonder why others don't do the same.

If any research is to be done then IMHO it ought to be focused on why so many people are brainwashed into believing that they must be "on top" of the sensationalized news. Another aspect worth researching is why people refuse to accept the responsibility to be selective about what they watch and hear and to be selective how frequently they watch or hear.

The word blame is an interesting. It could be described as "being lame", refusing to accept personal responsibility and expecting someone else to do it for you. IMO pointing fingers at the media simply points the finger back at their audience.

mikeny07 on 'Where have our brave men gone?'

mikeny07 — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:04:05 -0500

You spoke my exact words! I was just going to write something like that.

The media probably has caused most of the depression in this world.

If all the news channels showed just positive news 24 hours a day, depression rates would drop worldwide.

Any study ever done on this yet?

What are depression rates before 24 hour news came out and then after? And also before the internet. I would love someone to research this.