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Why are Artsy types more prone to mental Illness?
Posted by BrazenTeacher • 6/18/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: artists, depression
I am an Art Teacher, and have been very interested in why Creative Thinkers of any type (writers, musicians etc) tend to suffer from mental illness and depression. Any thoughts on why this is? I don't think it's just a coincidence.
User Comments
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i actually think its the opposite
most people with mental illness are prone to artsy types-
thank you!
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Hallucination is one of the reasons. In order to do justice with the characters a writer tries to live (feel) their lives.... but depression is a general problem that many people from different professions and of different age suffer.-
hallucination and extreme empathy... especially as an actor... you take on the feelings of others, or tap into them and a lot of people don't know how to separate the character from their own identity.
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I think they tend to be more vocal,literal and visual about it, not actually more prone to mental illness.-
Yeah, they just stand out more. And often use their illness to their advantage, or at least as an outlet.
Plus, it's almost socially acceptable to be a loony artist.
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Creativity requires a sensitivity to the inner world. This is why artists tend to be introverts. Introverts are more likely to suffer from depression. -
I'm really interested in your comments, because many creative thinkers in the 20th and 21st century have died at their own hands. And this is something that is kind of "understood to be normal."
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And many didn't! I could provide a whole list that would outnumber the one's you mention, but their ends were not dramatic and didn't support the tortured artist myth.
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Do explain Siralmo... I stink at this thread thing...
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It's because they're left-brained. As we all know, left-brained people are the only ones in their right mind. -
ok so see on the lower right hand side of each post there is a reply button hit that on the post you want to reply to coz we don't know who you are talking to
also if you do create another post just drop an @blahblah so you can direct your comments
******** alright so you saw that ************* -
well i think that people with a mental illness are drawn somewhat to art as a form of expression
i don't think that it is the other way around -
hmmmm... I know you won't have time to watch this now. Or even tonight for that matter. But if you ever feel inclined this link is a speaker on the topic. I'd be curious to know what anyone thinks if they want to message me later. I know posting a 20 min vid clip on BC is kinda silly...
www.ted.com/index.php/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_on_genius.html
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@guzzo
Artists are right brain people. Left brain people tend to be science and logic oriented.-
Doh!
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because they are the one's that get more attention hence furthering the belief that artists "seem" to be prone to mental health issues, but "seem" is the key word. I bet if one did comparative studies the idea that artists are more prone to depression or mental health probs wouldn't pan out.
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i agree... it is just more in-your-face to a wider public audience.
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I don't think artists are any more prone to depression or mental illness than anyone else. I think that's just a stereotype of the artist.-
yes... i concur. However all stereotypes originate from threads of truth... they are just exaggerated to encompass whole subsets of people or situations... however they are certainly not invented out of pure whimsy, right?
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No! Stereotypes can be total lies, pure fabrications. Artists are just more visible than other groups of people. More in the spotlight. Those who are unhappy have expressed it in poems and letters, which are widely exposed and read, whereas nonartists depressions are confined more to their own personal environment.
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OK... I hear that. :-)
But depression with artists is tied to their life's work. To be more clear... since I wasn't before and apologize... you are correct that many suffer depression... but you don't hear about a banker, engineer, or mcdonald's cashier pouring their sad emotions into their work. I know an argument is that an artist's work deals with feeling so naturally they would connect their feeling to their art. However why is always sad feeling. I struggle find joyous artists in the mainstream... and I look!
To your credit... this thread is helping crystallize some things for me-
In a rush which is apparent by my poor grammar. I'm off now... will be back later to read what everyone says.
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Yannnoo - Please don't take this the wrong way - but there are a few artists who perform and they appear perfectly happy...
The only one that comes to mind right now is PRICASSO - whom I actually think is a good artist, while his means of art tools are interesting - he is a decent artist - and well... he seems pretty happy doing what he's doing.
But there is another guy - who does these HUGE art paintings - as they turn - and he slaps his hands on the canvas - I haven't had my coffee yet, so trying to remember who he is, is NOT working. LOL!
But he's great!
He does amazing art in seconds and he's ALWAYS laughing or smiling in every show I've seen.
So perhaps you're thinking Sylvia Plath type of artists - or Edgar Allen Poe type?
They became famous because of their diseases - and talent.
A combination.
Like Marilyn Monroe - her talent was superb - but if she had just faded into old age - she would have been "just another sexpot" - yet, because she died, she has become an enigma.
So it is our perceived concepts of what is good - and what could have been great if it had not been cut off so shortly.
LOL!
(cut off, get it... Ears... Painting... - oh sheesh - nevermind.) -
I know that elation can cause creative outbursts, just as depression can create a need for an expresive outlet.
I am wondering. I go from one extreme to the other, and I 've done some of my best art when I an on the up side. But I don't often finish, because I burn out really quickly.
Maybe because when you're down and depressed, it's usually a lot longer in actual time, so more work reaches the finished stage.
Just an Idea. -
There is joy in art, but maybe we only find what we are looking for. Also good artists are good at being painfully honest. Non artists are probably less likely to confront their inner landscapes as often, or with as much honesty, clarity as artists, therefore PERHAPS there is more emotional messiness in the artistic realms. But that is why we need artists.. they help us get in touch with the good bad and ugly of our emotional core.
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An old adage about genius and insanity comes to mind. -
@BrazenTeacher: Whitman, Emerson, Thoreau, Duchamp, Matisse, Miro, Picabia, Henry Miller, E.E. Cummings, John Cage, Matisse, Monet, Renoir, Degas, Victor Hugo, DH Lawrence-and hundreds, thousands more.
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I suffer from depression and am an arty type, but I'd like to think I'm not a stereotype... and I realise no one here is saying that. But it is something that's intrigued me too. I know plenty of other depressed folks in my life, and not many of them have an artistic outlet for it. But, by the same token, trying to follow an artist's life can be a depressing, if compelling, road to take. It's not easy having to wrestle with the world's tendency to commodify artistic expression before it becomes something "valid".
Hmmm... I don't think that was clear, was it? I'll wait and see if anyone gets what I'm saying first...
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At age 39 I was admitted into a 30-day treatment center for alcoholism and mental depression. I was given an MMPI test (Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory test - see wikkipedia )upon admission. 4 weeks later I was given the test again to see how the 30 days may have changed my emotions/personality. After each one I was given a one-on-one meeting with a mental health doctor who went over the test with me and explained the results.
I had 2 major problems. My ego was much higher than normal. My self-esteem bottomed out the chart. This was my first reading. After the second test and meeting again with the doctor, he said, "I have good news. And bad news." He smiled. Kindly. "The good news is your sense of self, you self-esteem, has climbed up the charts. You think much better of yourself than when you came in."
"No, the bad news." He smiled again. "The bad news is your EGO has climbed even higher - it's now off the charts!"
Ego. Self-esteem. For a normal emotional life the two should be in harmony - or closely so. I was confused. I had placed ego and self-esteem as being two words for the same thing. I didn't understand the difference. Ego is, he explained, our inner view of ourselves, what we feel, given the right circumstances, we may achieve in life. Self-esteem is how close we see ourselves to having the right circumstance in ourselves, our life.
I was in conflict. On the one hand I truly felt I did have something I could positively to myself and others. (My ego.) On the other hand, I had an inner voice constantly saying "Who do you think you are kidding, Rivy? You are too damn shy, unattractive, awkward - etc., etc., to do anything! You're a goddamn looser, man. You're getting too damn big for your britches!" (My self-esteem.)
Now, to the point of art - artists. When I returned to my home state and continued counseling for emotional and mental health problems, and the results of the tests were forwarded to my doctor, I was told, in a friendly manner, that my MMPI test results fitted almost "exactly" the template for the creative personality, the artist struggles on.
Propelled by large egos. They KNOW they have something to contribute. But - low self-esteem prevents them from proceeding along given paths - make money, hold a position of prestige, be a leader in one's circle. But the artist personality - with his negative self-esteem constantly nagging: No, no, no! No way can you achieve that, Idiot!
So that person looks for an avenue of expression outside the social and expected norms - the ego still saying: "I'll SHOW you people I CAN..." and through drawing or painting or dancing or whatever, begins a life pursuit. Even as the self-esteem devil continues to cast doubts.
To quell that voice, alcohol or some other drug of choice is often taken up. To fill a void, an empty hole, one never quite escapes.
Which can lead to disaster for some. But also to success - maybe not in a lifetime - but eventually. For some. If we get our expressive self out there - as the ego demands. It is a quest. The road we take. I am an artist.
Oh - I am also left-handed. (grin)-
That was illuminating, Rivy. Thank you.
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Very illuminating.
I totally enjoyed that Rivy - AND - I think you should do a post on Notches about that.
Oh oh oh --- speaking of Notches - can you limit each page to about 3 posts?
It takes forever for my satellite slow speed to load up on bad days - and well - I want to see the newest post RIGHT AWAY... LOL! -
Wow, I can totally relate. Well, not to all, but definitely to the ego and self esteem part. It makes total sense. Unfortunately, I can't brag that I'm left handed, although I do play a number of musical instruments which means I have to be dexterous with both hands. Maybe I'm semi-ambidextrous!
I definitely suffer from a large ego (Dont you DARE interrupt when I'm talking!!!!!) and low self esteem (there's no use in getting out of bed...) and I'm very artistic and creative.
Thanks for sharing this. Brilliant post:) -
Rivy... you have articulated exactly what I could not... and also the very struggle I experience each day. Truly... your words have clicked something in my brain that desperately needed clicking! Thank you
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I agree with the Rivy's points about self-esteem and ego issues among artistic types. My father was a musician, and i can attest to the huge egos and low self-esteem found in so many musicians. I myself am taking a break from what I call the musical Curse, in part to separate myself from dealing with the self-esteems/egos i am all too familiar with among musicians. A lot of emotional masochism in that circle. I also have taken a pledge to quit dating musicians. But of course, first thing i did was go out and date yet another musician....
And yet, i still believe that it is just more noticeable among the artistic set, because it is put on display, and often used as a source of inspiration.
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I know plenty of depressed people who aren't artists and have no interest in art. I trained and worked as a therapist for many years, so believe me they're out there. Read my comments above. I'll stick by them. Rivy-with all due respects I believe those kind of psychological tests mean very little. They're the pseudo-scientific equivalent of astrology. Certain depressed people may seek consolation and expression through the arts which might further serve to exacerbate or diffuse that depression. It's an individual thing. But I still maintain that the image of the artist as a tortured human being like Van Gogh is a stereotype.
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Rivy, what great commentary! You hit the nail on the head. It seems like our ego is how we recognize ourselves, but or self-esteem is based on how we imagine society sees us. If we have a healthy ego, but feel under appreciated by society, that can spark intense artistry. As you say, the need to prove to the world what our ego already recognizes. Without such inner conflict, is art mediocre? Unfortunately I’d say mostly yes. Inner turmoil is a terrible price to pay for art, but it seems to be the spark for creativy. If we had a choice, would be choose to be a great tormented artist, or an average happy nobody?-
Davedol-There are many artists like Matisse who create out of pleasure, out of joy. Sure it's difficult, but much of the satisfaction for them lies in the play of meeting challenges and overcoming obstacles they themselves have created.
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wp
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nothingprfound, I don’t think true art is inspired by happiness. Happy, content people don’t want to create art. They are happy campers, content with literally camping by the bonfire and roasting marshmallows. Art comes from a need to prove something to the world. Art is a different dynamic.
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davedol: Some people just enjoy doing art. It's play. It's fun. It doesn't have to be a neurotic need. A lot of the DADA artists were like that. They rejected the whole image of the suffering, solemn artist.
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That's a very close minded view of art. I figure you consider yourself a true artist right? -
@Trailofpen: Who are you referring to? If me, you should read my previous remarks. I'm saying the the view that ALL artists create out of pain and unhappiness is the narrow view. That there are ALSO artists who create out of a sense of fun and play. I named a whole bunch above.
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No I wasn't referring to you.
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Thanks trailofpen for the clarification.
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I must not be a "true artist" then, because when I am tormented I am paralyzed, creatively.
I had to have one of my dogs put to sleep last month. I am only now getting to the point where I can attack the keyboard with relish...and I'm still not able to get back to the sewing machine, although ideas have begun to percolate.
The happier I am, the more my creative juices flow. -
Sorry but that is absolute RUBBIsh! I am a very happy and contented artist and I create all the flipping time,and not all happy little pictures either.
www.slide.com/r/CIJxJH8AvT8SInaziH7HWHV5x-VHBGzW?map=2&cy=bb
I live and work in a community filled with artists who don't fit the stereotype at all, not the one's I have worked with through the arts council, running art shows, events etc.
I don't need to prove anything to the world, just as many artists don't. What I need is to create, just as a I need to talk. -
I've seen the stereotype up close... depressed artists... lived with it my whole life .... and i agree that the stereotype has huge kernels of truth, but also have learned, as i separate from the depressed artists of my past, that there can be a great deal of art that is about Play and Joy.
Which brings to mind my obsession with clowns/comedians... who are some of the most depressed people i know... it takes something special to make people laugh... which creates joy for others, but not necessarily joy in the giver.
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I've noticed that every single talented artist I know (and I know some world class talent) is extremely troubled.
I for one have had my share of mental illness.
I read recently that there is a study that draws parallels between the two. Apparently, it has to do with the sideways or out of the ordinary way of thinking that goes with mental illness. Creative people depend on thinking outside of the box
I'm not creative out of a medicating or therapeutic need, I just know what I have to do. I have to create or I become the most irritating person to be around! It's like eating, or sleeping. I know when and how I have to do it, and I do.
When I create, I am me.-
I have spent 15 years in the artworld in three states and the vast majority are just fine. On the other hand after 7 years of working on a crisis hotline most of the people having problems were NOT artists, so what does that tell you?
Hearsay and limited exposure to artists doesn't make it true or factual. There are millions of artists around the world and the percentage of depression is more than likely no different than the general population. -
It tells me your Hearsay and limited exposure don't trump my hearsay and limited exposure. I certainly did not say I know every artist in the world, but I do not have limited exposure by any means. I could say 'my 40 years living in three countries' but that doesn't mean my experience is more valid.
I stand by my statement because it's what I have seen. Your mileage may vary.
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In all fields of engineering, greater levels of instabillity equal greater power. You would also find that the finest minds of science and persuasion were more prone to mental illnesses as well because that great speed, strength, and clarity involves removing all the stops, warning signs and rails and jacking up the speed limit. -
Do you have any studies or statistics to back up your contention? Because I don't agree.
I suspect that mental illness is more evenly distributed throughout the population, with a possible weighting in the engineering disciplines since, in many cases, these are people who are less socially adept and more comfortable with their technologies.
Can you point me to some evidence that we creative types are loopier than programmers?-
You might do well to investigate how high functioning autisitics think, and how they are able to excel at certain things, but are incapable of other normal activities due to abnormal brain functions.
What that may inform, is how the brain functions with different levels of IQ's, mental diseases or disorders, and how that relates to those who express themselves through words, visual cues, audible cues, or mathematics.
It's no secret that different careers, and different IQ's indicate different brain functions. And when the brain functions differently than the average, you can reasonably asses that where it excels, something else is sacrificed.
Have you ever met the genius who couldn't tie his shoes? (I know it sounds cliche, but I actually have - besides it gets the point across). Some of the best poets, writers, artists, musicians, and scientists in our history all show some inability to cope and function within normal sociological boundaries. Whether they controlled it through self-medication (Musicians and heroin addictions were common, as was artists and heavier drugs or alcohol) or through strange and reclusive behaviors (The "Mad Scientist" syndrom, or the reclusive (now) emo/goth poet or writer) or they just let loose with their bad behaviors (the abusive artist, the scientist that abandons their family or marries a close relative and inbreeds, the artist tat self mutilates etc and so forth).
There must be some connection between brains that function on a higher level - and the loss of connection with society and/or the inability to cope with normal average life needs and obligations whether due to mental illness, or because quite simply, you have to give a little something up if you want to be brilliant.
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While I have known some artists that are not mental balanced the vast majority are. The artists that are mentally ill get alot more press though often because their artwork is often really outlandish or really pushes cultural acceptability.-
I don't agree bec, it is a stereotype that is reinforced by the publicity a small percentage get, or the impression one gets when seeing odd or disturbing work. I have often had people assume that when they look at some of my work, and they are shocked, floored when they meet me. Expressing and exploring the darkest side of life, fears, issues, human condition does not equate to being unhappy, unwell or disturbed.
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I am speaking from personal experience, and often some of the really disturbing work is done by very disturbed people, Paul McCarthy comes to mind.
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My daughter, an RN, has noticed the same tendencies, as have I. It has been said that there is a fine line between genius and madness. Not that I am a genius, but I do believe creative types feel things with more depth and passion than some. That, and the mind is always spinning with numerous ideas, curiosity runs extra high, and so does observation of both the positive and negative in the world.-
Very nicely put!
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None of the things you mention are indicative of a lack of mental balance.
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my heart is in my head and my brain is in my chest -
It's hard to tell if I'm in the majority or not but ..
Creative Thinkers of any type (writers, musicians etc) tend to suffer from mental illness and depression.
I disagree with that statement. And agree mostly along the lines with what @jafabrit posted -
Washington D.C. (AHN) - Caregivers, waiters and social workers have the highest rates of depression among full-time U.S. employees, according to a government report released Saturday.
www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7008822560
"The lowest rate of depression, 4.3 percent, occurred in the job category that covers engineers, architects and surveyors."-
depression is only one of many forms of mental illness and dysfunction
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right and so if one takes time to look at the data, the demographics it is easy to see that mental health issues crosses the spectrum.
If one wants to single out mental health issues by career how about looking at: Rates of Psychosocial Problems Among Physicians
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/410643_2
OR what about teachers?
"Although only a few studies have been published on teachers' health, certain ideas are widely accepted, such as for example, the preconceived notion that teachers suffer from an excessively high rate of mental health problems."
www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/6/101 -
waiters... i know i'm pushing it... but as a waitress, one is under extreme mental/psychological pressure, to pretend to be something you're not... and an awful lot of servers in my circle are serving to support their artistic endeavors... and i see an extreme amount of self medicating going on within the industry...
but we all self medicate.
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Many artists are detached from their work in a healthy way. Because one deals with dark themes and creates tortured characters, doesn't mean one is dark or tortured oneself. It's fun to walk on the dark side, especially in one's imagination. To create demons and monsters and insane and bizarre people doing insane and bizarre things. It's like Dali said: "There is one difference between a madman and me: I am not mad."
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So true, at least for me. I find myself trying to get my head around some things that are really dark and creating an image about it is a way of exploring and processing that idea.
Have you ever seen kiki smiths work, wow! talk about disturbing
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiki_Smith
or Nancy Spero.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_spero
Just to name a couple, these women address difficult themes and neither of them fit the tortured disturbed artist myth. -
nothingprofound: agreed... and yet it is a balancing act that some are more PUBLICLY better at than others. Artists are more public than housewives, who probably have just as high of rates of mental illness as those in the spotlight everyday.
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that is so bizarre, I find someone who works the same job for years, atches the same shows everyday on television, and eats only junk food as absolutely crazy.-
Haha. I guess everybody has their own idea of what "crazy" is.
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yea, AND what's with spending hours hitting a little white ball with a metal stick, or watching a car go around and around and around and around and round and around and around and around and round and around and around and around. Help! I am stuck on a loop!
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Simple: creative types score higher on neuroticism, and this tendency tends to aggravate. -
It's actually an interesting - and ongoing - debate (at least in artsy circles and art history dorkus circles).
Does the need to express oneself in an artistic manner lend itself to mental diseases or issues? Does the mental disease or issue cause one to be a better artist? Does the current trend of medicating to mask symptoms turn out worse art?
Or is it all really a coincidence?
First and foremost, I think that it is safe to say that some of the greatest artists had some very serious mental problems and/or diseases. Van Gogh, Pollock, De Kooning, Monet etc et al all had problems of different sorts. Alcoholism/depression (Pollock), issues with women (DeKooning), voyerism and/or possibly pedophelia (Monet), Depression/ syphilus (sp?)/ addiction (Van Gogh) - they had serious issues that cause dthem to be almost non functional in an ordinary world, ordinary lifestyle.
However their art was pure brilliance, and all of their issues translated onto the canvas in a way that even the most talented artist couldn't imitate.
But not all artists are like that, nor do all of them have mental problems or addictions. Duchamp and Picasso - while talented, were businessmen first and foremost. So too with Da Vinci and Michelangelo. They were opportunists of the highest degree.
On the other hand you had the likes of Goya, who went mad towards the end of his career, becoming a recluse and painting highly disturbing scenes. I doubt that was from his career, and more or less caused by his exposure to violence and war during the period of his life.
So it's really hard to say. I would argue that artists and artsy types are probably part of a group of people who see and express themselves differently than the norm, and thus labeled as "weird" even if they are not mentally incapacitated in any real manner. -
Maybe it works the other way around. What I mean is that maybe they're unable to make a living doing "regular work" on a steady basis, due to their problems, so they end up trying to make a living by selling works of art. The only ones that we hear about are the ones who are/were good at it. -
Enjoyable topic. Obviously an unresolved subject. I used Google to search "art alcohol" and "alcohol & creativity" and the debate goes on in many fields of inquiry.
To tighten the discussion, I would re-align the horse and carriage.
The question is not whether depression/social dysfunction leads to creativity. It doesn't. People of all types suffer depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, drug dependencies. Mechanics. Teachers. Lawyers. Politicians. The homeless. Housewives. Bank clerks. Waiters. Name your own.
The question is whether people who have a strong creative need - and these are a small minority of the general public - have higher than average problems of depression and drug dependency than the population at large.
Again - this is not to label all such artists/writers as depressed addicts, but to question where the number is greater than the norm.
We are not talking about recreational artists. People who enjoy painting sunflowers on Sundays or composing poems for holidays and gift cards. (apologies for the cliche - I know the types can vary widely.)
The discussion is what compels some artists/writers/musicians to pursue their activity at the cost of home, security, family - who are willing to put up with anything so as to devote the majority of their time to art. Art not for sale, not to make the best-sellers list or get displayed at a premier gallery - but to SOMEHOW express life as one encounters it. Are they more prone to depression/anxiety? More of a tendency to self-medicate? To ignore the social norms?
Look at the number of people who have pushed the envelope in art, in writing. Yes, Van Gogh , the stereotype. But there are many such. Edgar Allen Poe. Hemingway. Faulkner. Joyce. Capote. Motherwell. Pollack. Kline. Francis Bacon. Ned Rorem (composer/musician) DeKooning. Kerouac. Burroughs. These are some quick names, artists/writers who set aside conventional approaches, "pushed the envelope" as we say. (Anyone here can compose their own list. Rock stars. Punk musicians. etc.) The chemistry of depression/anxiety,suicidal thinking/ and - self-medication - is high.
Searching goole as stated, I did a quick read on the "creative cocktail gene" which the University of Denver or Colorado are researching and have so labeled.
As far as the MMPI tests - they are taking more seriously than mere astrological charts by many professional mental health clinics. I just read (again google) where the national Department of Corrections uses the MMPI for the majority of incoming prisoners. To determine where and how they should be confined.
Anyway...all a great debate. And long way from being settled.
Oh, just to add: The MMPI does not just look at ego and self-esteem. The "creative type" also includes curiosity, openess, seeking, etc, and many more aspects of personality.-
Yes, but there are a lots of examples throughout history of people who pushed the envelope and were not mentally ill, ,depressed or addicted. I haven't seen any research that supports artists are any more or less mentally challenged or addicted than the rest of society?
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I think you've brought up some great points. Making a distinction between casual artists and serious artists helps define the debate even more. Not that there's anything wrong with red barns and seagulls, happy trees, or "paintings of light" but they're far from pushing the envelope as you mentioned
One of the things I might mention, as an aside, is the materials may make a contribution to the mental (and physical) health of the artist. Particularly if you go back before safer alternatives were created.
The chemicals in many artists tools are toxic, dangerous, and can be absorbed through the skin. Turps - which are used to thin, clean, and mill paints. The vapors alone can make you high as a kite (I did that by accident just the other day). nevermind if you absorb it through your skin, or ingest it accidentally (which happens). Other gums, chemicals and toxins (cadmium comes to mind) are toxic and poisonous, and are used to create chalks, pastels, and various other art tools.
Carving and sculpting is also hazardous, particularly now with such toxic materials being used to caste molds or create nice finishes on marble. Most clay is sulfur based as well to keep it pliant and supple while working.
It's just a thought....
Edited to add:
Jafa...that we know of anyway. We have no idea if the artists you mention didn't have any skeletons in their closets.
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@Jafabrit. Yes. Hundreds. No argument is being made that all - or anywhere near all creative types have social/depression/self-medicates problems. Not at all. The debate is where the percentage that do are of a higher number than the public at large. Just - as an aside - the cliche about "left-handedness" being an art factor. It is not a fact that all or such. No way. Again, the question is where the percentage of left-handers in the visual arts are higher? The debate goes on.
(I personally hope it is a factor - being left-handed. As a "down-an'-out artist whose life's work has probably paid about 2 months rent - needs all the reassurance I can get. "You sure do!" the Muse said. "You can wear me out!")
@Anok. Interesting consideration. Probably doesn't apply to writers or musicians though. (smile)-
No, probably not
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they are hypersensitive and full of dreams and imaginations.. often they lose the connection with reality. the practical writers never lose their sanity but their works are rarely as overwhelming as these dreamers. -
I don't have any statistics on this but I think that we hear about mental illness when the person is in the spotlight. We don't hear about it when it's an average Joe. I am thinking it's probably the same percentage across the board.
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@Rivy: I think one can name as many artists, poets and musicians who pushed the envelope who weren't tortured as were. In fact, some of the absolute giants, Michaelangelo, DaVinci, Shakespeare, Goethe, Bach, Picasso, Duchamp, Matisse, Walt Whitman, Neruda, etc., all seem reasonably happy, functioning human beings. I think the stereotype of artist as mad-genius, neurotic, renegade, deviant, outcast from society, pariah, became popular in the mid-nineteenth century and continued through much of the 20th. But many young artists are rejecting and have rejected that today.
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@nothingprofound. One certainly can name many such artists as you just have. The debate does continue, however, not just between you and me, or others posting here, but in the mental health/psychology profession as well. The "rise of popularity" of deviant disorders may be a trend. It also may be a factor that Freud, Jung, etc., did not come onto the scene until the end of the 19th century. And psychology became a serious field of inquiry. Previous definitions such as "eccentric" or "loner" or even "genius" became more complex. Other factors we discuss here came into deeper consideration.
Add to this the lack of defining records on individuals during previous centuries. Many behaviors we speak of today were not noted then. Even in contemporary biographies. (Some still debate who was the "real" Shakespeare. - smile.)
Anyway, at no point is deviant social behavior a "defining" characteristic of creativity. The on-going debate is where the percentage of such matches with the public at large.
Oh, well...(Ah, wail...) the artist sighs. He notes it may be time to return to the drawing board ...uh... computer screen... and see where his art takes him. "You durn right it's about time," the Muse says. She does not smile.
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i know when I worked decontaminating jail cells, the mentally psychotic often liked to "paint"
Occasionally even sculpted -
...ew!
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are they? trying to decide if i am artsy. maybe that's been the problem this whole time... -
being creative is a good way to get the crazy out
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or is being crazy a good way to get the creative out?
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