Discussions
Why is Religion & Spirituality such a sensitive topic?
Posted by SpiritualBloggers • 12/29/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: religion, Spirituality
When I first signed up with Blog Catalog, I did so having no idea that Religion and Spirituality would be such sensitive topics here and I'm actually mystified as to why.
You mention God or a fringe, new age topic and people turn into cynical balls of hate! If someone wants to believe in God, let 'em! If you aren't interested, don't participate - same as if I saw a thread on nail polish. Not for me! :-)
Lastly, I want to mention that personally I am not religious, but spiritual and there is a difference. I'm not advocating religion here, necessarily. I'm just wondering why people are having meltdowns about religion and spirituality in general.
User Comments
-
I think religion has a bad rep. Blame history, people manipulating religion, people doing things in the name of religion etc etc - I'm sure you can use your own examples.
So to talk about religion you effectively open pandora's box and you never know what might be inside. You might get religious fanatics, people opposed to religion, people harmed by religion etc etc. Everyone has so many different experiences of and by religion as it's such a ubiquitous institution. Because of that *unknown* factor in terms of what people think about religion and what they believe in - it makes it a highly sensitive, unpredictable topic. -
@ chrisdowsett
Thank you, Chris. That is exactly the type of response I was hoping for but wasn't sure I'd get. I totally hear you on the whole *unknown* factor. -
i think for me it has come to the point now where i don't care and CBB for it,
cause its the same over and over again -
Simply. This is a global website with every perspective and faith represented. Not everyone is tolerant of differing views. And each person thinks they have the whole truth, the Christians, the whatevers, and the whosey-whats. The people that find fundamentalists irritating get annoyed at the extreme views and they make comments about how ridiculous it is to have that perspective, the fundamentalists start quoting scriptures and then it stirs up a little more. And then I add things like Jesus lived in India, the wise men followed a spaceship,God is in all things, Jesus was really a Buddha and it's a free for all. Then there is name calling and reporting. Quite frankly, I find it hilarious because I live in a town where there's Hare Krishnas, Buddhists, 7th Days, Jehovahs, Sikhs, Catholics and every cult you can think of. And my kids are friends with everyone. Kids often don't discriminate but adults just can't work it out.
The more the better.-
the thing is IRL its different, here they are able to hide behind their mask and be as reckless as they want.
-
Yeah but I'm friends with people here who's ideas I find just ridiculous. In fact if my kids believed what some of these people believed, I'd send them to counsellings. I took my son out of scripture classes because the idiot teacher told the kids that they would burn in hell if they weren't Christian. My son was 10 and smart enough to know it was dribble, he came home and told me. I sent a message to the school and told them "My God is a God of Love not Hate", and I banned him from the classes.
-
Acoustic Guitarist - Good for you! It's sad that individual institutions like a church or school put their own spin on the religion that they belong to and ruin the experience for that faith's members. -
BusyLizzPerson
They it works in Australia is in public schools they have scripture classes, and members of different faiths come in and do their thing. In a small school which is basically white anglo saxon, generally it will be someone from a Christian faith. Often these days, it's the extremists which go into the schools to do 'God's work', and they can't see anything skewiff with their views being over the top. "Burn in hell if you're not a christian" is something that those people ca't even see as a problem because that's what's going on in their heads. It is impossible to have a sensible conversation with someone like that. -
acousticguitarist, I wish more people were as open-minded as you! Too many people honestly believe not only that their way is the only way, but that their duty is to persude the world to their way of thinking.
That way madness lies.... -
MylissaAriana: first off where did you dig up this old thread??
secondly: i think that is a normal human reaction, we all think we are right, and want others to understand how we understand the world, its not being closed minded its called being human.
regardless of whether you are right or wrong, you will always tell people what you believe, and will often find it frustrating that someone does not share your views
but so is life and we move on... -
where did I dig it up? I'm at work. Surely that says it all?!
I agree that people will always want to share their opinions and I think they should. I'm all in favour of healthy discussion. What I find difficult to accept is people who can't even listen to another opinion (I'm not asking them to agree, just listen), while at the same time expecting you to roll over and agree with them... -
but if you are trying to suggest that we be open minded then are you not the same as those saying you should believe "X"
-
I'm saying 'I wish people were' not 'people must be'...
A tad simplistic perhaps. But still, I'm not trying to tell people what they should think. Or believe. I just honestly feel the world would be a nicer place if people listened occasionally. And yes, I'm sure I could listen a lot more too - nobody's perfect!
-
-
@ siralmo
You mean: Do you believe in God Yes or No threads?! They are repetitive, I'll admit. I participated in them a few times until I realised it was futile. Now I just ignore them.
There are BC users I've noticed who do participate in them over and over, and they get angrier every time. What's the point?-
yes those, you will notice i leave a in them
because i quite like religious discussion but i do not like being confronted -
Siralmo, it's because you are a cult leader and your leadership is threatened.
My cult is better than yours, and dearer. -
yes i am the leader of my cult... so whats it to ya
c'mon c'mon you wana fight???
ill take you on, and then ill frame someone famous like chopper so they'll never know
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! -
i've got famous actors in my cult
-
Perhaps they are adrenaline junkies and enjoy a good arguement?
-
there are much better ways to get the glands pumping
-
-
Because too many people who are religious (or think they are spiritual) deal in magical thinking and lie to themselves and others. They think the world operates by magic, that magical beings run the world, that they are not responsible for themselves and their behaviours, that magical beings cause it all.
Now, if these people could keep that to themselves, it would probably be ok, but they can't. If you believe that a magic being creates a disease and that it gives the disease to people it doesn't like or approve of...and you spread that believe among other magic believers, you could get a critical mass of people who believe AIDS is a punishment from the god(s) and AIDS victims should not be treated, just shut away to die. It then becomes difficult...for those who do not believe in magic...to get funding for research and treatment.
If you get enough magic believers to think that poor people choose to be poor, then you can end up with a social policy that refuses to help the poor and allows children to die for want of proper nourishment and/or medical care. Those who do not believe in magic and realize that poverty is more about lack of education and opportunity get trampled in the dust.
Ignorance is dangerous to a society. Those who believe in the tales of magical beings are often hostile to new discoveries that contradict the fairy tales. Everything from history to medicine to biology to geology...the social Luddites not only insist that the fairy tales are true, they want to indoctrinate everyone...including the children of rational thinkers...into their antediluvian beliefs. People die because research into cures is stopped by the magic thinkers.
So, why the big flap? Because if I find myself dying of something that can be cured by genetic engineering (as the result of fetal stem cell research), I don't want some religious fanatic standing between me and the cure. When my grandchildren go to school, I do not want their heads stuffed with fairy tales about dinosaurs and people gamboling hand-in-hand through Texas.
Religion is a crutch for people who are not yet sufficiently emotionally mature to go through life without a daddy to rescue them. God is viewed by modern "Christians" as a lamp genie who, when paid with the right ritual, will pay off like a Las Vegas slot machine. And if your prayers aren't answered, it's not because you sat on your butt or wasted your time going to church 10 times in 7 days instead of putting in a germane effort to make your life better, it's because your faith in magic isn't strong enough to get the slot machine god to pay off.
Magic v reality, when presumably intelligent people try to suppress reality in favour of their own personal brand of magic, will always cause conflict.-
Ahhh *reality* - how do YOU know what reality is?
-
i like what you have said.
Personally, I think every attachment to everything needs to go. Until then there's something in the way between the God thing or no God. -
Empirical reality vs fantastical tales.
Give me empirical, reproduceable proof of the existence of just ONE of those magical beings...introduce me to one and let him turn my hand into a tiger's paw and back again...and I'll change my tune.
Until then, the lack of empirical proof of the claims of the existence of invisible beings that magically grant wishes, control weather, punish us with diseases and reward us with goodies will serve as evidence of their lack of existence...or reality. -
There are so many assumed fallacies in your response it is almost hard to count.
First of all you are referring to wingnuts with your "the world operates by magic" theory. While there are a few of them out there, it is not the norm.
Second of all, how does thinking that the poor choose to be poor translate into magical thinking?? Magical thinking would be more like "The poor are poor because God is punishing them". Thinking that the poor has choosen there position in life, is actually personally empowering people with their own live's, the polar opposite of magical thinking.
"Religion is a crutch for people who are not yet sufficiently emotionally mature to go through life without a daddy to rescue them. God is viewed by modern "Christians" as a lamp genie who, when paid with the right ritual, will pay off like a Las Vegas slot machine"
Obviously you aren't Christian so how the hell would you know that? Most people see God as a very personal thing, everyone believes in their own different version of who God is to them. To some people he is a big man up in the sky, to some people he walks among us everyday and to some "God" is just a name given to a power that is bigger than us. You can't even begin to assume that you have all modern Christians pegged and then insults them based on your assumptions. That would be just about as effective as me saying, "All Atheists are self righteous control freaks who think they are the ultimate authority on everything, have to answer to no one and think that science holds the key to all the world's mysteries great and small(even though there are plenty of things that science can not explain)."
Listen, I'm not overly Christian but I do consider myself spiritual. I do not view religion as a crutch, but I do believe there is something bigger out there. I don't believe it is a 50ft man with a white beard and a staff but I do think that it is explained that way by most religious institutions for ease of use and understanding especially to the founders of modern religions when the common folk was not as emotionally and intellectually sophisticated as we humans are today.
You really seem to think that you have Christians pegged. I can assure you that you don't and by making the silly little assumptions that you do, you are no better than the wingnuts, who go to church 10 times in 7 days, thinking they have the "heathens", who suffer from AIDS because God is punishing them, pegged. -
Hussy
When I read back over what was said by SweetV
"Religion is a crutch for people who are not yet sufficiently emotionally mature to go through life without a daddy to rescue them. God is viewed by modern "Christians" as a lamp genie who, when paid with the right ritual, will pay off like a Las Vegas slot machine"
I think it is very very true in many cases. And it is not just Christians, it could be applied to every religious / spiritual person. It seems harsh but there is so much truth in it. And I'm not saying there is no God, but in all the activities that people do, the rituals, the prayers etc it's easy to miss God and get caught up in doing things that we think God likes. Rituals and prayers are really only things to keep the mind busy until we find what God really is
-
-
Oh Lord please buy me that Mercedes Benz that I asked you to buy me a while back.
-
My Friends all drive Porches I must make amends
-
Yah...and where's my colour TV?
-
No, you get a night on the town
-
Oh...well that's probably more fun that another colour TV! You coming with?
-
That's not the way that God works, he won't buy you a Mercedes Benz.
You can steal it and ask for forgiveness. He does that. -
Sweet
I'll ait for delivery each day until three
-
-
@ acousticguitarist
Thanks for joining the discussion, I really like what you have to say.
And you're right, it is the adults who always fight over this stuff! I think tolerance, which you mentioned, is a big key. I for one LIKE hearing other people's perspectives, their experiences and what they have to say. We are so missing out if we think our understanding of truth is the only version. There are, what, some 4 billion people on the planet. That's a lot of perspectives. -
I wait for delivery each day until three
oh lord wont ya buy me...
I Love Janis. Its a shame that she died :-( -
@ SweetViolet
See that's what I mean - the unknown. Sweetviolet thinks religion is magic - clearly her point of view - although a point made as if it were a fact.
A lot of people would get very angry at that. Some wouldn't care. Others, regardless of religion, might just think that SweetViolet is being narrow minded. Others would agree 100%.-
Hmmm...let's see you raise a hand and part a sea. Let's see you wave a hand over some jars of water and turn them into wine. Can you wave a staff and turn the Nile red? Do you actually believe these things really happened? Because if you do, you believe in magic.
Tales of magic are fascinating. I enjoy them myself...love the Harry Potter movies and grew up on Hans Christian Anderson...but even then, I could tell the difference between a fairy tale and reality. And by the time I was in my teens, I pretty much had figured out the biblical stories were fables and parables.
Interestingly, it doesn't take much to figure it out, only sufficient maturity to be emotionally self-reliant and personally responsible.
Religion is a crutch that causes the atrophy of our critical thinking faculties and encourages us to be dependent rather than independent. When you start thinking for yourself, the magical stuff will look just as absurd to you as it does to me.
-
-
Here's my take on the subject.
Religion is a personal commitment. And, unfortunately, people with a religious bent tend to be sensitive when someone challenges their beliefs. Whether it's a discussion of religious or denominational preferences - one's personal views are at stake. Sadly, it usually comes down to who's right and who's wrong. And, the idea of agreeing to disagree, isn't even considered. Remember, in addtion to land disputes, wars have been (and are being) fought over religious differences.
As far as spirituality (i.e. new age), to a religious person, it's often viewed as going against the practices of their faith. Period.
I, for one, believe we should live and let live.
Peace-
I don't know - religious people can be insensitive too. Let's not turn them all into sensitive preacher stereotypes. There are plenty of non-religious people who are sensitive too.
People tend to label too much when it comes to religion. Too many of us willingly put religious and non-religious people into boxes. -
Maybe you mean over-sensitive (in an annoying way) and not sensitive. Sensitive can be a good thing.
-
I meant what I said.
-
Hope I didn't sound disrespectful. I was just tryin g to clarify the word sensitive.
-
No, I didn't take it that way. If you look at Scott's discussion post, he refers to religion and spirituality being "sensitive" subjects. I was just staying on point.
-
-
@ Sweet Violet
First off: I respect you. Second: your response is more aligned with what I was expecting.
As a counsellor educated in a lot of the same therapies used by psychologists (namely behaviour and cognitive behaviour therapy) I can appreciate your comments on Magical Thinking. However, as someone who also has psychic perceptions (which anyone is capable of developing - meditation is a good place to start) my reality is that beings such as angels and ascended masters and star people do exist. My work with them is as real as sending and receiving email, except in this case I am the hardware, not a computer. If someone doesn't have abilities by which to perceive them, I can totally understand why they would think these beings were simply magical beings.
I agree with you that Ignorance is dangerous to a society. But I think you are beginning to unravel with your argument that spiritual and religious people want to indoctrinate everyone into something that is harmful - if I'm hearing you correctly. Not all religious and spiritual people want to suppress reality in favour of magical ones. I started my own spiritual quest out of a longing for truth and look - no crutches!
Obviously neither of us are going to change the other's mind on where we stand but that wasn't the point of this thread. -
@ MadMadMargo:
Well said Margo. I think if we all just listened to each other we would all hear something of value from each person. But that is what scares people. I don't know why it has to come down to who is right and who is wrong. Why can't it be something like, here's what I get on --, what do you get? Actually, that's what psychics do when they are chatting! :-) -
Seems things that cause heartfelt passion will always cause controversy. Religion or non ... Both feel that deep passion for what they believe is true and want the others to understand their stand/position... which will sometimes lead to arguments because of the heartfelt passion involved on both sides. -
Magical thinking holds a different meaning to many different people.
I speak constantly about 3rd Eye and the Eyes as I am an Optician by trade and I so deal solely with eyes and perception.
I can't tell ya how many times people have asked me to explain 3rd Eye, which I happen to have
and when I do, people look at me as if I'm speaking another language or I have 3 heads.
3rd Eye may even be looked at by different people who don't get it, as some kind of magical belief system but I can assure you that when you do get 3rd Eye you will know how real it is.
There will be no doubt in your puny minds that 3rd Eye isn't real and the experiences that you will receive once you get it will change your perception and point of view drastically.
There are people out there who swear that 3rd Eye is something evil, they simply don't understand what 3rd Eye is and so they form an illusion to mask the truth.
Unless you have experienced 3rd Eye for yourself you have no friggin idea what I'm speaking of.
Not everyone can sit upon the throne of understanding and its human nature to want to mask something they just don't understand.
I have given up a long time ago trying to get people to correct people's perception, people will see what the hell they want to see, even if there's nothing in front of them but imaginary fears. -
Jeunelle, I think I'm developing a crush on you.
-
@SpiritualBloggers....was it something I said that created interest?
-
how do you know whether jeunelle is a women?
-
in fact, not sure whether SpiritualBlogger is a male or female... i'm getting confused
-
@acousticguitarist....actually that is a pretty good question
BUT how do I know that you are just a lovable panda bear? -
Oh ok. Scott is male
Jeunelle sounds female -
SB is a guy
-
Yeah I just found out
-
I can't make sense of Jeunelles avatar
actually I can barely see it. It could be a French name. There was a boy named Sue -
It is female ...it's french and means young girl
Jeun young....Elle girl
-
-
@Jeunelle
It sounded to me that you were speaking from EXPERIENCE, something first hand and not second hand. Second hand doesn't cut it (I'm gonna blog on that...)
@acousticguitarist
As long as she's human ;-)
@Arcticulates
Isn't that funny? Ask what heart felt passion is about and you'd think it would be about love!-
@SpiritualBloggers:
You are right love is the first thing people say when you ask them what heartfelt passion is. But a heartfelt passion can be about anything.
Anyone who hasn't been to your blog yet should give it a visit! It is very informative and interesting. As is the discerning person who writes it!
-
-
Spiritual Bloggers is male
-
@ Arcticulates
Shucks... thank you, Arcticulates. This is a perfect time to dash off and cook dinner (6 pm in the land down under). Bye for now!! -
@ Sweet Violet
I think you are focusing on a very narrow part of Christian mythology and tagging it as the general beliefs of all religious and spiritual people. Your compass is way off if you think I, or most people, structure their lives around such biblical stories as parting the sea and turning water to wine. Seriously, SV, I'm trying to respect you, but are you for real?
Also, you go on and on about maturity, emotional self-relianance and taking personal responsibility for one's life. I could not agree more. If I were not self-reliant I would not have: left home at 21 to migrate to Australia, I would not have quals in nursing and counselling therapy, I would not own my own home and my own business in one of the best parts of Australia - all of which has been built (not literally, we didn't build our house) by my partner and myself. So if you think that all spiritual people are immature and haven't got a clue, in this respect, I must insist you are wrong.
What is more, you are missing out. You have so much anger and judgment, perhaps arising from your own experiences and observations (?) that you just seem really blocked and not willing to examine - even for a moment - what someone else is saying.
All I can say, is that your perception of spiritual people is not the only perception and it is certainly not the only reality. I wonder if you can accept that. If you can, that right there is something spiritual... and please, if I'm hearing you wrong, by all means let me know. -
I think it's a touchy subject because so many people think they are right and everyone else is wrong...and they're willing to die arguing about it.
-
everyone else is wrong
-
-
@ busylizzy & acousticguitarist
But isn't that ridiculous? I'm happy to say to myself "Ok, so that is what's serving this person's growth right now. Here are the philosophies, beliefs (or whatever) that are serving mine".
We are not all going to get there by packing into the same car...-
Yes, everyone in a mini minor is good. Ever been on and Indian bus?
-
-
I don't comment in the spirituality, religion threads much. I think since I have been here I may have made one or two "off the wall" type comments...very pointless!
I think that everyones view of these things evolves over time. There is absolutely no point in me EVER trying to explain where my beliefs have come from on here unless we all have a lot of time to sit by a fire on an evening and REALLY share our experiences and you/other people tell me how you got to where you are too.
Evem then, we will have differences but understanding perhaps. In here even, many people who comment seems to know the answers, I am 48, I am still exploring, I am not yet sure I know them.
I would love to have some good debates BUT I never want to cause offence, I only ever want expand my spirituality and it is not set in concrete! -
LOL @ acousticguitarist - You've got a great sense of humour :-)
@ chrissymarie321 - Well, thanks for participating in THIS thread, because I think you had some really thoughtful things to say. How nice it would be to sit around a fire with everyone and share our evolution stories. Actually, it sounds brilliant! No fear, no judgment, no pretense. That is one thing lacking on the internet: intimacy. -
I think some people enjoy a heated discussion in which to practice defending or refuting a point of view, some people just can't accept others challenging their beliefs, some want to proselytize and get snarky when it is exposed. I tend to shy away from participating in religious threads, mostly because there isn't much being said that I haven't heard before. I do enjoy some of the posters here who have participated though.-
@ jafabrit, yeah me too. Different participants, I have enjoyed hearing a different mindset for a change - quite refreshing
-
-
I tend not to participate in religious/spiritual threads because they often seem to be animosity magnets. I, and I alone, own my beliefs, so it is therefore up to me to take responsibility for them... if that makes sense. Part of my responsibility entails not adding fuel to what might already be a heated debate among people who hold wildly differing views. All that ever seems to emerge from heated debate is a general sense of ill will. I am being irresponsible if I add to that.
Aw man... it seems I've broken my golden rule by posting here... d'oh! -
Because people are very passionate about their belief (yes, non-belief is a form of belief). Our beliefs are our Ideals. People die for ideals and beliefs! Because it cuts to the core of what each person thinks and is. -
Well-said everyone, I appreciate your honest, unguarded comments.
There's definitely a common thread in this thread, and it is passion. At least, that's what I'm hearing. I will admit, I am passionate about my beliefs but what about the old adage 'live and let live'(believe someone here mentioned that)?
One of my beliefs is that truth is subjective to perception... as is reality. I knooow there are people @ BC who'd wildly disagree and that's ok, I accept that :-) -
I'm for a general aerial dusting of prozac -
@ SwedishSkier
On ice cream or the general population??-
Ice Cream already puts me in my "happy place."
-
Imagine, prozac on ice cream! Or would it be ice cream on prozac? Hmmm.
-
-
look if someone asks the question, "do you believe in god yes or no and why?", what do you expect? and unfortunately i find most of the questions seem to be of that ilk. even the question you ask, is subtly inferring that only atheists throw fits. and one thing i have learned is that fits aren't the property of one group around these parts. anonymity in the hands of a zealot (no matter what flavor) can make for a thoughtless, meanspirited comment.
having said all that, if someone asks about a bible interpretation or an atheist wants to talk about sam harris's latest book, for the most part most people with differing views respect that, and subscribe to your recommendation of staying out. -
Jeunelle
Oh Lord please buy me that Mercedes Benz that I asked you to buy me a while back.
whish come true :http://www.imagerentacar.com -
I think because religion/spirituality is part of our core beliefs and values and when someone says your core beliefs / values are wrong, we feel 'wrong' as a person. It hurts to the core, it can hurt our hearts. We can feel vulnerable and exposed.-
That makes sense. -
lordiwanttobewhole....ain't that the truth
-
I agree.
If I might also add another aspect then it would be this. Some of us have been both abused in every way imaginable and grievously hurt - spiritually wounded by people, who were and are still well known for their "spirituality" and revered by others of their own "religion".
The core values we were taught by these people as children were demeaning, demoralizing and damaging. Worse still our teachers were parents and authority figures in Christian churches. We were sworn to suffer in silence and to forgive and we did so for many years.
When we had the maturity and courage to examine these negative core beliefs and to replace them with positive beliefs that empowered us and allowed us to move forward in our lives, to grow to become healthy and whole - it wasn't over.
We find ourselves faced daily with the same negatively focused belief system that did such damage to us being flaunted here in this forum as though they were healthy beliefs daily. Ironically, thise who post these topics to this forum again and again and pander us with tripe like "if you don't like it then don't post to the thread". -
look, a number of us were sexually abused by members of the church, when people start dribbling on about how great their religion is, I get really annoyed, I guess my response should really be "if it's that great, well why did God's representatives who give holy communion and confession have sex with me when i was 11" It's hard to see beauty and wonder of a particular stream of religion when there is so much child abuse
-
-
Talk about religion is usually banned in the workplace.It's not because talking about religion is bad in itself.But it's because most people do not have basic conversation skills and will end up judging, attacking, and getting defensive.It's the people that are the problem, not the topic itself.
-
This is a reply to acousticguitarist.
In every group there'll always be a rotten apple. You might get some consolation from the fact that St. Paul had his hands full trying to keep Christian believers in line, and that was what- a scant 40, 57 years after Christ died?
You have to understand that, really, it is very difficult to stay on course, and that the tug of sin is no respecter of persons: priests, bishops, you name it.
It's very sad that you have been at the receiving end of such anomaly.
But please understand too that deviates like the one who abused you do not the Church make. Zechariah (was it?) had to experience being sawn in two, Fr. Maximillian Kolbe actually exchanged himself for a POW who was about to be shot.
For the rest of us bloggers, Christ invites, but will never force us. Pardon me if I sound invasive, but there might be some moments when some of us feel empty, when even the most intense sensation from the wildest mind-blowing experience tanks, let's lay still for a few momens. We might be a breath away from the peace Christ brings.
Merry Christmas. Happy New Year to all.
I'm a Filipino Catholic from Cagayan de Oro City, and I work at xavierclub.com.ph-
katergazomai
How freaking insensitive and ignorant can a deluded human being become?
I'm here to say that your attempt to evangelize and link drop in response to what you read from acoustic guitarist is utterly appalling and very telling. He takes no issue ay all with the teachings attributed to Jesus. -
I have nothing against Jesus and hold him in the highest regard>
But the issue is the churches hide pedophiles and the more you research it the more disgusted you would be. You are totally uninformed and if you want to get informed and do the world a great favour, start asking questions in the philipines about abuse in the church.
To have faith in God is a beautiful thing, to be naive is another. Most people are blinded by their faith and are to scared to consider that there could be a problem with sexual abuse in the church. Go on, research it on the internet for starters and then ask questions in your own country.
Christ does not like pedophiles and people like you could help your community a lot. -
And I know the story of the Saint Nino and I believe that to valid
-
TT
Yeah. They don't get it. The Philipine Churches are famous for sexual abuse of boys, I was talking to a Philipino friend the other day. It is unfortunate
-
-
timethief
I'm sorry. Must be a culture thing. I didn't want to offend. Sorry.-
katergazomai
I do NOT accept your apology.
And your attempt to pass off your first evangelical spiel and link drop as a cultural difference is grievous, and now you have linked dropped yet again and tried to use the misery of another to promote your blog. How shocking and shameful. -
Why don't you accept his apology? Do you think you're better than everyone else?
-
-
Lighten up every body. It's New Year's Eve, for crying out loud. My Dad would have said the last part. Wouldn't you all rather celebrate than go down this worn out path? Time to rise above it, forgive those who offended and let it go. Your heart and soul will feel free if you do. It's simply time to move forward and create wonderful things with the talents we each have within us, and not waste any more time suffering inside by bringing up the hurtful past. Time to go forward and enjoy our lives and make new and good memories together.
Love and Peace to you all in 2009!
My instincts told me to stop going through my junk mail and check up on you guys. -
@Theresa111
I consider your "lighten up" message to be a patronizing and unacceptable response.
We adults who have moved froward and who have established healthy core values have done so without the assistance of the corporations known as churches.
We have used those patronizing stumbling blocks (church members who wish to sweep the damage done and being done under the carpet) as stepping stones, and we will continue to do so until justice is fully served.
We are firmly committed to exposing pedophile priests ministers, and pastors those who have and who are continuing to hide the abusers from the long arm of the law, until justice is fully served.
We have kept a close watch on the threads/comments that mysteriously disappeared from this forum, and we will continue to speak our truth in this forum and in every other place and space that allows us the freedom to speak our truth to power.
The truth is that no followers of the teachings attributed to Jesus require a corporate structure and that's a good thing, because absolute power corrupts absolutely and the men who "head" these corporations in question are evidence of that.
-
-
because people are sensitive to their feelings that might be hurt in the process of discussing the topic (the only people who would not be hurt are those who are broad-minded) knowing that truth hurts. can there be more than one truth? there is only one truth :-)-
The truth is that religion is the most dangerous invention that man has ever created.
-
Billions of people attend millions of churches around the world to worship god. They believe the god they worship is the creator but cannot account for who created him. The god they worship is completely imaginary. Their belief represents a delusion. And, it's easy to prove that their god is imaginary. Start at the beginning with Proof #1 and work through to #50
godisimaginary.com/
-
-
-
Because it is something that people trust deeply.
-
"The truth is that religion is the most dangerous invention that man has ever created."
Maybe, except that man simply didn't pop out of nowhere. Man has been created. Not only that, man has been redeemed, in the process elevating him to a level it was not originally in his nature to be in, to a supernatural level he's not even entitled to. All this, as a gift which man is free to accept or reject.
Yes, in a way we can say religion was created, if by religion we mean the Church provided man to unerringly guide him to his destiny. BUT, it's not man who created religion, it's not man who created the Church.
And definitely, because of the nature of Him who created it, religion can not be dangerous.
If you want proof, read Thomas Aquinas-
It is easy to prove that God is imaginary. Start at the beginning with Proof #1 godisimaginary.com/
-
Religion can be be the most dangerous or it can be a helpful tool. Unfortunately, the powers that be who dominate many of the faiths during these times do not have the necessary skills to sort out the problems.
-
timethief
Pardon me, but what might those "healthy core values" you hold be? -
timethief
Pardon me, but why are you so uptight?-
This issue came up because TT found your original response offensive. I found it very careless.
To quote you
"It's very sad that you have been at the receiving end of such anomaly."
This is not an anomaly. If you research how much sexual abuse has happened in the Catholic Church, and that's just by those that have spoken up, you would not have called it an anomaly, you'd see it as the norm. Personally I have nothing against Catholics, my family is catholic. But I am appalled at the cover up of sexual abuse in the catholic church and how they have gpone out of their way to cover it up. So many people that have been abused by priests and brothers have got an out of court settlement because the church wanted to stay out of the news.
Religion is a study of God, God may not necessarily be present, there may not necessarily be any communication with or experience of God in religion. -
cheesy, i'm not surprised that TT was annoyed. The response by this guy was substandard. offensive, insensitive, ignorant and the guy seems totally uninformed
-
He said he was sorry, and she didn't accept his apology.
-
-
Looks like this topic will be around for longer, so let's define terms.
"Religion" is the virtue of giving God what is his due, so unless you're speaking of giving God what is his due, please don't use "religion." If you want to refer to Catholics or their faith, you may use "the Church."
I can speak only about Catholics.
I'm asking this to make communications less laborious.-
I used to be catholic...
-
religion is the study of God, nothing more.
-
If you can only speak about Catholics, obviously you are aware of Sexual Abuse by priests, brothers, nuns and friars. If not, you are uninformed.
-
-
Mr Cheeseburger
Please know that I like your one-liners, shows a man (or maybe woman) who's perpetually unwinded.-
Thank you. Your enemy's enemy is your friend.
-
-
acousticguitarist
Yes, I have not been reading up on the topic as much as I should have been.
Know, however, that hurting anybody's feelings is farthest from my mind.
Just the same, I apologize to you too.-
You have no need to apologise. Belonging to any religion is fine and to develop a relationship with God in ones own way is healthy. But it's worthwhile looking at all sides of the religious organisations we belong to, the good and the bad. When we look at both the good and bad it helps us sort through the nonsense, to work out what is really valuable and I guess this takes us to the core values of our faith whatever they may be. And the closer we get to the core values the better, minus all the unnecessary stuff that really only gets in the way. when the things in the way are removed, I think there is a possibility of a greater relationship with God, without anyone telling us what God is or isn't, and without a mediator telling us what we can and can't do.
-
I agree. Usually social aspects of religion are what destroys the religion itself.
-
-
acousticguitarist
Yes, I've read about it primarily in Zenit, which is my source of information about things Catholic in the world.
But you know, and please no offense, the attempt to ram down Filipinos' throats of this bill in our Congress pushing contraception, forced sex education in schools as early as age five, and taking away from parents the care of their kids occupied so much of my free time that I couldn't think of much else.
Moreover, there's this series of weekly chastity seminars we've been doing in high schools- there has been an increase in the incidence of teenage pregnancies in our schools, no thanks to American influence.
Don't laugh now(guffaw better word?), but these are the kinds of things that have been preoccupying Catholic minds in the Philippines. -
acousticguitarist
You might be surprised. -
acousticguitarist
"You have no need to apologise. Belonging to any religion is fine and to develop a relationship with God in ones own way is healthy. But it's worthwhile looking at all sides of the religious organisations we belong to, the good and the bad. When we look at both the good and bad it helps us sort through the nonsense, to work out what is really valuable and I guess this takes us to the core values of our faith whatever they may be. And the closer we get to the core values the better, minus all the unnecessary stuff that really only gets in the way. when the things in the way are removed, I think there is a possibility of a greater relationship with God, without anyone telling us what God is or isn't, and without a mediator telling us what we can and can't do."
I've been there, in a way you'd probably not imagine. That's what makes me
put up with a wide variety of behavior. -
MrCheeseburger
You have not taken sides, have you? That makes the compliment genuine. -
MrCheeseburger
You have not taken sides, have you? That makes the compliment genuine. -
I don't think anyone has a problem with spirituality as a rule (those of us who define ourselves as "spiritual, not religious").
Religion gets intense because it is interwoven into power-plays in our political landscape, usually used to CONTROL another group.
If we has a TRUE separation of church and state, why would anyone give a rat's patootie about who worships what or whom......
POWER - CONTROL - SOCIAL DOMINANCE -
There are more religions in this world than we can count. If there are over 365 languages in India alone, can you imagine how many religions we have in this world?
I used to be a Christian, not that I let others dictate my life, but Christians really put a sour taste in my mouth (and no acousticguitarist & siralmo, not like a lemon)..lol.I had seen more bad things go on in the churches that we went to than I deal with in my normal life.
I think people do have the freedom to believe in what they want to believe in and follow what ever religion they want. But people like confrontation, plain and simple and a fact of life. They may say they don't, but yet they are here even if only reading this discussion or others with confrontation. Humans have to feel the power of speaking their minds. And we all think we are in the right path of what ever we are following.
In reality, NONE of us know exactly what is right and what is wrong. It's not right just because the Good Book says it is. It's not wrong because an Atheist says it's wrong.
You got admit though, and from what I have seen,heard,& read, Christians are the most out of all religions that feel they need to preach to people. At least with Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses, all you have to do say you are a devil worshiper and they turn and run away. Christians will damn you to hell and pass judgment and then tell you to not judge for tho shalt be judged and Catholics will say 10million hale mary's for you and pray to statues, and see Jesus in popcorn kernel, then go to a church carnival, drink beet all night and drive drunk as they take kids home.
My kids went to Catholic school and I appreciated the discipline they inflicted on my children and I think that being a single mom at the time, it helped.
I think even though everyone here argues about religion with each other, we could all sit down together and be friends. Once on one discussion, it's on to the next.
I chose to separate myself from Christianity, because I have always questioned my faith and not one Minister/Pastor could give me a straight answer and I don't care what anyone thinks or says. I believe in ghosts, I believe in aliens, we are not alone in the universe.
If someone doesn't like that I am a Deist, they don't have to talk to me. So feelings lost.
I Love you man, Peace, love & sauerkraut! -
Holy censorship! I go away for a few days and look what's been happening in this thread. OK guys, I will read everything and catch up.
@ TT I got your shout and thanks. I'll respond soon. -
Throughout history, and in much of the world today, "don't participate" has not been an option. -
Oh boy... I am genuinely saddened things got so heated, with obviously hurt feelings. It wasn't my intention, though I cannot control (nor have any desire to control) what goes on in a thread, regardless of the fact that I started it. Incidentally, I am not surprised; it all loops back to what led me to ask why it [spirituality] is such a sensitive topic in the first place. Alas!
@ TT: By now, I hope you know that I respect and accept you. I do wish you would calm down though, and please don't rip my head off for making that comment. I wish we lived closer, because I'd love to take you out for a cup of coffee and treat you to some pampering at a day spa. You need it. I hear so much anger in you. What is it doing for you? Who's fault is it? If you ever want to talk to me as a friend I will make time for you and I promise not to use any gestalt techniques.
@ Crane Legs
If you are inferring I am an atheist, I extend my invitation for you to explore my blog, The Spirituality Blog, whose links you will find via my profile.
@ lordiwanttobewhole
Simple and well-said. The sad thing is, there are a lot of people out there who seem to thrive off of spiritually wounding people. How they call this spirituality is beyond me. You just have to learn to protect yourself, then these people stay away from you: from personal experience.
@ AmyWife65 + TimeThief again
I appreciate your stabilising influence and comments, Army Wife. I too turned away from the church because I conflicted too much with the catholicism I was born into. I also understand that people have been abused at the hands of the church, and just want to say again that I am not advocating religion, atheism or any institution. No child, or person, deserves to be abused.
FROM MY OWN POV:
I appreciate all your stories and comments - I've read them all. At this point, I simply wish everyone happiness. On my own path, there has been a lot of crap to sort out, in order to achieve personal growth and yes, spiritual understanding. All the past pain becomes a distant din and then nothing at all, and in that space of nothingness - ironically - is completion. The journey is so worth the effort. I'm not forcing this 'idea' on anyone or shoving it in anyone's face. It's mine. -
@ drjay1966
I want to say 'good point' and then: haven't you chosen to participate by commenting? You could have chosen not to. Be careful not to hand over your power. -
It's a sensitive topic because believers in a faith take it as a personal attack whenever anything or anyone questions them about their faith. They've been taught to. Taught that any questioning is evil, and by extension so must be whoever is doing the questioning. They cannot accept a compromise between reality and their faith. They insist on seeing reality through the lens of their faith instead of just looking at it and judging it for what it is. The religious, especially the religious Christians and Muslims, have been so thoroughly conditioned that they see everything that conflicts with their faith as evil and something to be exterminated if possible. This is of course why they loathe science. -
Religion is most like a computer virus for brains. It comes complete with instructions for development and propagation of the virus, and code that prevents the person from deleting it or noticing that it doesn't conform to reality. It is orchestrated, organized, and officially sanctioned psychosis, made easily digestible and palatable to the masses.
Learn to think before you learn to believe, or you’ll soon believe that you don’t have to think. -
whatever - i believe that we need god for order. that's all guys.
-
Ideas, theories and beliefs are not necessarily truths.
A belief is not an idea held by the mind; it is an idea that holds the mind.
-
-
Because, most of the time, the discussion turned into debate. and much of the time, they screwed up each other, they then using anger in firing each other. Its always bias and none who really discussing religion with mutual respect. Also, none of the members here really an expert in religion.
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
