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Will the World End on Wednesday? Will a black hole under the Swiss Alps suck the earth insde out?

Posted by kirat92 • 9/08/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: controversy, nuclear physics, world ending

There has been this whole drama in the European Court of Human Rights or something like that against the starting of operations of a Large Hadron Collider under the Swiss-French Alps. The collider has been built by CERN to study the formation of the universe and various sub-atomic particles, but a small group of scientists believe that the collisions will cause the formation of a black hole which will suck the earth inside out.

The Court dismissed the petition.

The collider will start operations on Monday morning.

User Comments

9/08/08

chrisskoyles

Weird, I just wrote an article about this earlier this morning using that exact same title (well, upto the question mark anyway). I actually thought someone had randomly come across it without it being live yet.

Anyway, I was thinking more about this. In a way, it would be quite fitting if the 'Big Bang Machine' did swallow the earth whole. Man has been slowly destroying the planet for years and years now, so it stands to reason that he finally finished the job.

That said, there's no way this thing will destroy the planet. It's just not possible that, if there was the remotest chance that it could, it would have been given the go ahead. Nor, I imagine, would anyone want to embark on such an experiment were there a chance it could bring about an apocolypse.

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1. 9/08/08
  
  urikalish
  
  @Chris,
  You said "It's just not possible that, if there was the remotest chance that it could, it would have been given the go ahead. Nor, I imagine, would anyone want to embark on such an experiment were there a chance it could bring about an apocolypse."
  
  - During the Manhattan project at Los Alamos, many scientists thought that a single nuclear detonation will ignite the whole planet's atmosphere since nothing will be able to stop the chain reaction. They still pushed the red button.
  
  Too much money was already spent on the LHC to let an Earth-sucking black hole get in the way of the experiment.
  
  p.s. Funny "push the button" song www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_h_rLKTLvs
9/08/08

calais50

I did a blog post a couple of hrs ago on this.

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9/08/08

jadedconformist

There are cosmic ray collisions that hit us everyday that are more powerful than the LHC can deliver. So if you're going to fear anything, fear that!

Solar-flares (associated with Coronal Mass Ejections - CMEs) from the sun make contact with our Earth all the time in numbers that are "equivalent to one hundred thousand (or one billion)times the total number of collisions expected over the duration of LHC experiments. Analogously, in the whole Universe, the equivalent of 3X10-to-the-13th-power complete LHC experiments are performed every second."

Here's the source for the part I quoted: lsag.web.cern.ch/lsag/CERN-PH-TH_2008-025.pdf

Not to mention, micro-black holes emit Hawking Radiation and lose more mass than they absorb because of the 'Uncertainty Principle' (where virtual particles aren't in any single specific location and are paired together because of entanglement) - when one of the entangled particles hovers gets caught in the Schwarzchild radius (event horizon) it leaves it's partner behind, and if this process is repeated, it shrinks the hole.

I wish Morgantj was around - he could help me out here.

Keep in mind, WE are the oddballs of the universe in comparision with the violent, powerful things that occur every nanosecond throughout the universe. The amount of power that will take place in the LHC is only unfathomable to our minds since it doesn't seem natural to us - but again, solar flares produce more power (on a consistent basis) than this relatively puny thing will ever do.

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9/08/08

Theresa111

When I heard about this, my first thought was, "Some jerks are going to f**k it all up for the rest of us." I have a bad feeling about their experiment. I doubt a black hole will occur but it will definitely mess up something of value ... like the Swiss Alps ... maybe? I don't know but one thing is for sure if it does make a black hole, then good-bye everyone.

[reply]
1. 9/08/08
  
  urikalish
  
  Actually, they claim that even if a tiny black hole will be created during the experiment, if should evaporate quickly or simply won't suck in any matter.
2. 9/08/08
  
  jadedconformist
  
  You're right. I forgot to mention that any black holes created would be microscopic and far too small to attract anything. That coupled with the fact they'll disappear just about as soon as they appear due to Hawking Radiation.
3. 9/08/08
  
  urikalish
  
  Yes, but let's not forget that Hawking Radiation is still only a theory and was never observed.
4. 9/08/08
  
  jadedconformist
  
  Very true. They have observed it's effects, apparently. I believe this is how they know black holes exist as well...indirectly. Thanks, Uri
9/08/08

polybore

This experiment is historic. First the CERN project created the spark that lead to the internet. Next CERN will shed light on the nature of matter at the sub atomic level. Awsome.

[reply]
1. 9/08/08
  
  RichManofAction
  
  NO polybore. YOU ARE WRONG! The world will end, and we will all be dead! The Aztecs predicted this a long time ago. The end is near!
9/08/08

thewriterspulse

I've been following CERN's LHC project for years now, and the whole "a black hole is going to eat the planet" has been on the table from the beginning. Here's the thing, though -- they're not going to say it's impossible, because to say there's a 0% chance of something happening in an experiment like this is, well, foolish. But the probability of 1.) a microsingularity forming and 2.) said microsingularity not evaporating due to Hawking Radiation is very, very minute.

I've always found the project interesting, though. Especially when I was reading all that John Titor time traveling stuff a few years back (he "predicted" that the experiments at CERN would unlock the keys to time travel). Not that I believe that stuff, but it's entertaining to think about.

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9/08/08

Techlord

I've been following this ever since the first lawsuit was filed. There are many published papers in peer reviewed journals that question the theory of hawking radiation, and there are mathematical models that exist that show mirco black holes can become stable and grow. Whether they just fall through the earth or not is another story...And don't forget about hypothetical strangelets! arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0408/0408009v2.pdf

[reply]
1. 9/08/08
  
  urikalish
  
  From your avatar, I'm assuming you're here TO MAKE SURE the world will end on Wednesday...
2. 9/08/08
  
  jadedconformist
  
  LMAO
3. 9/08/08
  
  jadedconformist
  
  Right - and even if Stephen Hawking's Hawking radiation were wrong and the black holes created were more stable, they'd be traveling so fast they'd escape Earth's gravity. They'd be tiny, nonetheless. I'm excited to find out about the possibility of multiverses - let's see if String Theory gets a little more credibility
4. 9/08/08
  
  Techlord
  
  LOL, I'm not here claiming the world will end when the particles collide..I'm just pointing out that what many people are claiming to be facts are still theories. Hawking radiation, strangelets, micro black holes, etc. That's the whole point of the LHC, to test these theories out, right?
  
  Believe me, I am all for experimentation to help our understanding of reality!
9/08/08

jadedconformist

wrong spot

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9/08/08

howisbradley

Should I put off paying my bills until Thursday?

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1. 9/11/08
  
  Theresa111
  
  Time to pay those bills. Want to pay some of mine?
9/08/08

satijournal

We may get sucked into the black hole and into another universe. That might be kind of cool although cell phone service may be interrupted.

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1. 9/08/08
  
  csiunatc
  
  LMAO... cell phone service.
  
  I wonder, could it actually get worse?
9/08/08

voodooKobra

I sure hope so.

"I'm praying for rain
And I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it all go down." - Tool

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9/08/08

wehireu

I think the collider will simply disappear and there will be a big crater and everything in a large sphere will be gone. You will be able to look over the lip of the crater and see molten lava.

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9/08/08

HaplessHermit

I blogged about this a while ago. It's rarely mentioned however that this experiment isn't really all that unique, is it? Maybe the guys who have a better understanding can answer. Hasn't this sort of experiment been done before, but on a smaller scale? Wasn't there a collider at MIT that people were worried about?

[reply]
1. 9/08/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  These kind of particle collisions happen every day in the universe.
9/08/08

BrianJames

Haha.. Chris. I saw the title of this discussion post and thought the same thing. Great job on that article by the way!

For those of you who don't know what we are talking about...

ronebreak.com/2008/09/08/will-the-world-really-end-on-wednesday/

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9/08/08

mikeny07

Wouldn't the black hole be so tiny in size though? The Earth is pretty big. The black hole would need a big appetite.

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9/08/08

mikodragonfly

End of the world or not - I just wish I could be there to see it. It's the most fascinating thing I've read about in quite a while.

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9/09/08

kirat92

But the whole hawking radiation thing is also disputed, his theory hasn't quite been proven and its only theoretical

atleast thats what i read somewhere, am not a physicist so i dont know the exact details.

[reply]
1. 9/09/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  Hawking radiation fits the data, though. So even though we have yet to measure it, the probability of it being there is strong.
9/09/08

Crazysah

Basically no. Wait till Thursday Kirat and then watch out!

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9/09/08

TOMDDiary

Well, it all goes wrong the only thing one can do is to put their head between their legs and kiss their ass good-bye!

Only, kidding..nothing is going to happen.

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9/09/08

shadow626

it looks like the world will end today... The rain is freakin crazy...

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9/09/08

braincatcher

If the blackhole will suck the world inside out, where do you think we'll pop out? We can't just disappear like that.

[reply]
1. 9/09/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  We'll just increase the mass of the black hole. A black hole really isn't a hole at all. It's a rather heavy and incomprehensibly dense object.
  
  That leads me to wonder what these clown are talking about with the "microscopic black hole" crap.
9/09/08

arshad

after getting sucked in to the black hole , what am i going to do inside it ???iam planning to buy a laptop and bring it along with me so that i may atleast play fifa ...

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9/09/08

kirat92

Well, lot of people in this thread are talking about the fact that if one is sucked into a black hole, one enters a parallel universe.
Let me just clear that up, that is not true.
Stephen Hawking cameup wht that theory in 1975 in a purely hypothetical manner. It has no proof and no actual evience, obviously.

He himself retacted this theor a couple of years ago and admitted that the 1975 idea was incorrect.

What will happen in a black hole, well I don't know, I'm no physicist, but its just very strong gravity...

I wrote an article on this earlier today, kirat92.blogspot.com/

The fact remains that nothing will really happen.

One more suggestion that I wanted to tackle... someone said that the MBHs will be really small and would thus escape into space like atomospheric mBHs are supposed to. In this case, however, the blck hole will be formed by a head on collision and would thus not skid of into space like the atm. mBHs, or so I read.

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9/09/08

gander1272

I wrote a little bit about this as well. More of a social commentary on the lighter side of the issue though.

greenindustrialrevolution.org/blog

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9/09/08

kirat92

lol.

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9/09/08

fated82

Nah, Jesus said he will come and he hasn't appear yet, so the world won't end just like that.

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9/09/08

kirat92

we've got another 15 hours to go

the countdown begins!

[reply]
1. 9/09/08
  
  ptitpraince
  
  it will be the end of our problems
  good news!
9/09/08

myriadlife

Y'know what they say? Curiosity killed the cat!

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9/09/08

xtremer

if not the earth, I hope the scientists are sucked into it!

It won't happen, the world may end in 2060, not so soon....

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9/09/08

Anniepooh

I have to honestly say that I'm giggling quite a bit at this thought.

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9/09/08

annaswan

I just wish they'd say for sure, so I would know whether I had to pay my credit card bill or not. LOL

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9/09/08

kirat92

well we've only got 8 hours to find out!

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9/09/08

Friday13

Huh ... I wonder if I should do my (college) homework or not. It's not much, but if the world will end, I'll have wasted my time!

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9/09/08

howisbradley

I've packed my toothbrush and a fresh pair of underwear.

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9/09/08

Sebastyne

I hope I have time to catch Bold and the Beautiful before they switch things on.

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9/09/08

aningeniousname

I'll tell you on Thursday.

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9/10/08

jadedconformist

The world is still here. Is anybody surprised?!

CERN'S Twitter:

9:30. First beam injected and stopped at 1/8 of a circuit. Loud applause in the control room.

about 5 hours ago from web twitter.com/cern/statuses/916122478

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9/10/08

braincatcher

...reminds me of this thread. Whats up?

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9/10/08

kirat92

We're still here....

BUT they never made the collision they only tested one beam!

So the possibilities are there, perhaps on 12.12.12

[reply]
1. 9/10/08
  
  farangrakthai
  
  Indeed, they're just testing for the time being. Full power will be in a few months, if not years. So another reason to enjoy life while you can. You never know what tommorow will bring...
9/10/08

kdawg68

The world did end - we're now in a tangent universe that has somehow survived.

[reply]
1. 9/12/08
  
  kirat92
  
  thats funny
9/10/08

dosox

Don't worry... it may end anytime. So keep rockin till it ends.

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9/10/08

Ranu

I am still breathing. Oh! Tomorrow is Thursday.

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9/10/08

Ranu

I am still breathing. Oh! Tomorrow is Thursday.

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9/10/08

SolReka

Today, the Hadron Collider was simply switched on and tested. It'll be another few years until it's powered up to full capacity.

Today marks the beginning of a new dawning for both science and mankind. Simple questions such as; what is mass, what is gravity, what happened at the beginnings of 'our' Universe. These are just some of the questions the LHC can hopefully answer.

The guys at CERN agree that once at full capacity it will become a 'mini-black hole factory'. The what if scenario is a very real one. Only time will tell.

No need for panic, at least not until the LHC starts flexing its muscles. :-)

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9/10/08

calais50

Found a cool website on the subject. Check it out.
hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/

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9/10/08

howisbradley

Damn! I'm still here. I have to pay those bills after all.

[reply]
1. 9/11/08
  
  Theresa111
  
  Yep
9/10/08

carlgalloway

Sadly, in India one young lady is no longer with us, she was so distraught about the world ending today she drank some pesticide and passed away in hospital.
www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSSIN17173520080910

[reply]
1. 9/12/08
  
  kirat92
  
  that was really sad
9/10/08

TOMDDiary

I think that they are "playing" with something that they really don't understand. It tends to worry me somewhat. I don't believe in playing "God."

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9/10/08

acousticguitarist

Ummm

it's thursday

[reply]
1. 9/10/08
  
  drjay1966
  
  Not in the Alps, it isn't....
2. 9/12/08
  
  acousticguitarist
  
  it's almost saturday here
9/10/08

drjay1966

So...has it ended yet?

I haven't been paying attention.

[reply]
1. 9/11/08
  
  Friday13
  
  Nah, it's very safe.
  
  Those who are paranoid about it should just stare at the LHC webcam:
  www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
2. 9/11/08
  
  Theresa111
  
  @ drjay1966,
  Look at you! Where on earth did you get that wild avatar?
9/11/08

Theresa111

Since it is Thursday I must assume we will go on as before?

[reply]
1. 9/11/08
  
  jadedconformist
  
  I bet you there's another Wednesday coming up though.
  
  I'm gonna make it a ritual to freak out every week about this.
9/11/08

thewriterspulse

We're not out of the woods, yet. Wednesday was just a test run...actual experiments begin [I think] later this month, and word is the LHC won't reach full potential until maybe 2010. So there's still hope. >.>

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9/11/08

Sway

NO, there will be no supermassive black holes generated by the Large Hadron Collider. From what I have heard, if a black hole was to be created it would collapse into nothingness almost instantly having no effect on anything around it. Not to mention it would be on the sub-atomic scale. I have been hearing the experts talk about this for years now, and they are positive no harm will be done. It's the people who know very little about physics that seem to think a black is going to be created and eat the earth. Same kind of people that said your eyes will fall out if you go to space. Why is it that people who don't understand things are always against them?

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9/11/08

jackpayne

If at first you don't succeed, quit--no sense being a damn fool about it.

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9/11/08

ThomasCSlater

When the world does end, let us be thankful, because it was written long ago! We can't say we didn't know it was coming, God always keeps his promises! So let the world rejoice and Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!

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9/11/08

downwordspiral

If we did have to go, I don't think you can beat being sucked into a black hole.

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9/12/08

Crazysah

AS I have been telling my friend all week long, it won't happen.
Secondly only possible time will be at 12-12-12 when the Mayan Calender ends!

[reply]
1. 9/12/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  You're thinking 12-21-12, and no.
9/12/08

Crazysah

Yeah sorry... I meant 12-21-12.

Well yeah even I don't think so but I always believed that 12-21-12 was a better chance of doomsday than with this experiment!

[reply]
1. 9/12/08
  
  SweetViolet
  
  By that logic, the world is going to end on 12-31-08 when the current Gregorian Calendar ends.
  
  Oh...wait...we just start a NEW calendar when this one comes to an end, don't we?
  
  Whatcha wanna bet the Mayans would do the same thing if they and their calendar-making priests were still around?
9/12/08

kirat92

Its not just because the Mayan calender is ending.. all calenders formulated millenia ago will end but its just that the Mayans are one of the most precise time keeping races and its a Nostradamus type thing.. like they new it was the end of time so it made good sense to just stop their calender just there!

Feel sorry for those who had put off paying their bills till thursday!
Sorry people, you still gotta pay those bills...
lol.

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9/12/08

Crazysah

Yeah so maybe not then. Lets just wait and see what the future beholds us!

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9/22/08

kirat92

oh well, guess what i heard today

the thing stopped working 36 hours after it was started cause a hole got burned through it and the helium leaked ut...

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