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Yes/No: Would you vote for...

Posted by voodooKobra • 6/28/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic

Would you vote for a competent atheist president who largely-- or perfectly-- reflected your political views? Why or why not?

EDIT: No, I'm not thinking about running (I'm only 18 years old). I'm just curious about how the BC members stand.

User Comments

6/28/08

SinSecret

I'd rather have an atheist Pres than ANY kind of religious one.

[reply]
6/28/08

offendedblogger

Faith has no factor in who I vote for. In fact, it can often be a turn off. I'd rather not get into why, but I will say that it worries me if a president appears to be too attached to organized religion.

[reply]
1. 6/28/08
  
  timethief
  
  Would you vote for a competent atheist president who largely-- or perfectly-- reflected your political views? Why or why not?
  
  Yes. I vote for those who by and large uphold the same policies as I do and who take the same stand on issues that I do. Having said that, I strongly believe church and state ought to be separate. Therefore, I would consider any political candidate, who plays the "faith" card as part of his or her the strategy to get elected to be someone who I'd rather not vote for.
6/28/08

richrf

No problem here. But my guess is that I would be voting for a candidate that is going to lose.

[reply]
6/28/08

voodooKobra

SinSecret, offended, richrf: Congratulations, you're in the minority!

An estimated 3 out of 4 Americans would not vote for a well-qualified, atheist president.

[reply]
1. 6/28/08
  
  offendedblogger
  
  I doubt this.
2. 6/28/08
  
  Norski
  
  I don't know where you got your numbers, but they sound plausible.
3. 6/28/08
  
  SinSecret
  
  Yeah, I think that's the sad part... most Americans would probably rather have an incompetent christian than a (theoretically) perfect atheist.
4. 6/28/08
  
  richrf
  
  Yeah, I know. But I voted for McGovern, Gore, Kerry, Muskie, etc. So, I am use to losing. But give me props for voting. OK?
5. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  I don't know how recent the numbers are, but it was mentioned in Richard Dawkins's The God Delusion.
6. 6/28/08
  
  offendedblogger
  
  I find that hard to believe, with so many self-proclaimed atheists today. By the way, I am not atheist and I still have no issue whatsoever with voting an atheist in as president.
7. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  I am aware, offended.
  
  The God Delusion was published in 2006, so the number has probably changed dramatically (especially with the internet).
8. 6/28/08
  
  MadameX
  
  Kobra, it strikes me that the question you've presented in the initial post is quite a bit different from the one you describe here. Do you know exactly what the poll question was? "Well qualified" and "largely reflected your political views" are very different concepts, and it seems entirely possible to me that if the poll used the phrase "well qualified", many respondents simply assumed that it would be very unlikely that an atheist candidate would agree with their views and responded negatively for that reason.
9. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  I am aware of the discrepancy. However, I decided that "well-qualified" is subject to too much ambiguity for this discussion forum and "agrees with [almost perfectly] your political views" would be more concise and decisive.
10. 6/28/08
  
  MadameX
  
  I agree with you, Kobra, but having made that change it may not be accurate to assume that the people in this thread who respond affirmatively are in the minority--perhaps if the poll participants had received YOUR question instead of the 'well qualified' language they would have responded just as we are.
11. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  Yes, that's a perfectly valid point.
6/28/08

Norski

In theory, yes. I would.

I'm an American, and in this country the president is a secular executive. Those duties can be carried out by anyone with the proper qualifications. And, in my opinion, have at times been carried out by people without the proper qualifications - and the country is still here.

In practice, I'm unlikely to face this hypothetical situation. I'm a devout Catholic, and so my "political" views are determined by applying beliefs and doctrines of the Catholic Church to the social, economic, military, and judicial needs of the country I live in.

[reply]
1. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  And unfortunately, most atheist politicians will never admit it.
6/28/08

MadameX

It's difficult for me to conceive of an atheist candidate who would hold the positions I consider most critical, but if such a person existed the mere fact that he was an atheist would not be a deciding factor for me.

[reply]
1. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  Yes, this situation is purely hypothetical. However, I'm glad to hear that you would be reasonable about this decision.
2. 6/28/08
  
  MadameX
  
  What about the flipside, Kobra? Would you vote for someone who was a true, devout Christian (as opposed to just adopting the label loosely because it plays well in politics) if s/he held all the right positions?
3. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  I'm glad someone asked that question:
  
  Yes, I would. In order to hold similar political beliefs to me, you have to be an almost-entirely rational person. Kenneth Miller is an example of a devout Christian who views everything from a rational standpoint (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_R._Miller).
  
  Anyone who is rational-- theist or atheist-- deserves a little more trust than an irrational person.
6/28/08

TalesfromtheTracks

I'd *prefer* an atheist president. I hate that so many politicians have to pretend to be religious just to appeal to a segment of the population that votes based on the completely WRONG criteria.

[reply]
1. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  I think we would all prefer an honest president over a dishonest one.
6/28/08

Timesobserver

I guess I'm in the minority too then. I don't really care about a candidate's religion. He or she can worship a head of lettuce every Tuesday night and hop on one foot for all I care. If they're not religious, no big deal to me.

[reply]
1. 6/28/08
  
  offendedblogger
  
  Hmm, I might question their sanity though if I knew that they worshiped lettuce and hopped on one foot.
  
  Maybe a don't ask don't tell policy is a good one?
2. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  Nah, the public is way too nosy for that to work.
3. 6/28/08
  
  offendedblogger
  
  Well, I admit that I am nosy about all that Molech worship at Bohemian Grove myself.
4. 6/29/08
  
  legbamel
  
  Yeah, it's not like they're worshiping baking soda, which we could all understand.
  
  I'd certainly vote for an atheist, as long as he or she did not feel the need to denigrate a religious opponent specifically for holding beliefs, rather than for actions and stances.
5. 6/29/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  It's a misconception that most atheists do that. Most atheists are afraid to admit they're an atheist.
6. 6/29/08
  
  legbamel
  
  If it were a US national campaign, you know it would come up, and I would be shocked if it were one-sided. You know that the "religious right" (as the saying goes, unrepresentative as it may be) would throw the "unbeliever" label in the candidate's face at every opportunity. They'd equate "religious" with "moral" and "ethical" and imply that a lack of faith equals a lack of character. Typical smear campaign tactics, in other words. Regardless of personal faith or absence thereof, I'd vote for a candidate that would sweep all of that away with, "I'm sorry you feel that way," and then focus on actual issues instead of rhetoric.
  
  Perhaps I've only known very vocal atheists, but they ones I've spoken with are like ex-smokers, for the most part, more vocal and in-your-face with the "sheeple" comments and the rants against organized religion as ex-christians than people who grew up without a strong faith. Being agnostic, I have a certain sympathy with the concepts, but I don't get the venom and contempt. I also don't read you spewing them, so please don't take that as any sort of personal attack.
  
  Religion is like sex: I don't want to know your preferences unless we're practicing together.
6/28/08

voodooKobra

Maybe it's time Gallup conducted a new poll?

[reply]
6/28/08

DrowseyMonkey

In Canadian politics a politician's religious veiws are not discussed. I prefer to keep politics & religion apart.

[reply]
1. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  There's too much excess baggage when you combine the two.
2. 6/28/08
  
  Timesobserver
  
  I agree. It does add a lot of baggage and we all could have been spared the Rev. Wright rant a few months back.
  
  timesobserver.blogspot.com
6/28/08

kdawg68

Non issue for me - although I doubt we'd line up issue wise. If we did, I'd have no problem.

[reply]
6/28/08

morgantj

You know my answer.

[reply]
1. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  Yeah; it goes without saying.
2. 6/28/08
  
  MadameX
  
  Morgan, might I pose to you the same question I asked Kobra above? What if the hypothetical were reversed?
3. 6/28/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  If I know Morgan as well as I think I know Morgan, his answer would be the same as mine.
6/28/08

kataztrophy

Religious views are not a factor to me. I vote on the basis of what they have done thus far, and how they plan on running the country.

[reply]
6/28/08

kevingoodman

Well you do have to be 35.

[reply]
6/28/08

timethief

@voodoo
gerryplanetearth has started another "possibly related" thread here www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/is-atheism-a-religion

[reply]
6/29/08

Anok

Religion of a candidate only comes into play with me if said candidate plans on using the presidential position to force said religion onto the general public through law.

IE: a very zealous religious person with no regard for the separation of church and state.

Otherwise I don't really care

[reply]
6/29/08

carlgalloway

You know here in Europe I very rarely hear a politician's religious views being discussed, and when they are it's more of a surprise since it usually isn't an issue. I do not understand why Americans are uptight about this stuff

[reply]
1. 6/29/08
  
  Anok
  
  I don't either, Carl. I mean, I know why some people get uptight about it in local arenas, and personal conflicts - but really, I'm not sure when it all started to be such a big deal in the first place.
  
  Maybe it has to do with our puritanical roots?
2. 6/29/08
  
  clioandme
  
  Europe had to fight more than a few religious wars to get to this point. And religion was a factor in public life until more recently than you might think.
  
  I'm no expert on it, but think about the anti-clerical rhetoric in nineteenth-century France. Or the Dreyfus Affair. And Catholics in Germany tended to vote for the Center Party in the Kaiserreich and Weimar Republic, while Protestants chose other parties. Not till after World War Two did they put together a party that stood above confessional differences: CDU (Christian Democratic Union) and CSU (Christian Socialist Union). Christian Democracy is not unique to Germany either. And these are mainstream parties, not from the fringe, not least because they do not beat people over the head with their faith, but instead use it to inform their family and education policies. (The US doesn't even have real family policy-making.)
  
  Besides the existence of mainstream Christian Democratic parties, some significant opposition to Turkey joining the EU is tied to Europe and Christianity. Some prominent politicians will say this openly.
  
  And have you heard about the heated public debate in earlier times (late twentieth century) about whether the cross could hang in public schools in Bavaria? There are many other such examples, even if Europe appears to be more secular on the whole than the US.
3. 6/29/08
  
  timethief
  
  I don't understand it either Carl. The religious pollution that pervades American politics is not the case in Canada. Here we are exceeding suspicious of candidates espouse their religious beliefs in the political arena.
6/29/08

clioandme

Two scenarios:

General election: If the candidate made a big deal about it, I might be turned off, like I'm turned off by too much religious rhetoric.

Primary election: I would probably judge the candidate unelectable and choose a different one, unless there were a lot of factors to outweigh this issue, which would be a deal-breaker for many, even most Americans.

[reply]
6/29/08

robinj

An atheist still has a standpoint and a belief system they are not objective I would want someone who accepted and respected all beliefs

[reply]
1. 6/29/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  Accepted all beliefs as fact? I doubt you would find such a person.
  
  Accepted and respected all beliefs as equally valid "opinions"? Most atheists do (even though most of the "public atheists" are drawn to debate).
2. 6/29/08
  
  jafabrit
  
  I didn't read robins comment as saying respecting all beliefs as fact, but respecting others beliefs.
  
  I don't care about the beliefs of those running for public office and even after 30 years living in the USA don't get what it has to do with with running a secular government.
3. 6/29/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  I didn't read it as such either, but robin's comments weren't exactly phrased concisely and I wanted to answer both possible interpretations of her comment.
4. 6/29/08
  
  jafabrit
  
  I guess upon reading it again I have so have a couple of questions. Why would it be considered an atheist cannot be objective and respect others right to believe as they see fit? Does that hold true too for those who have a religious belief also, in that by virtue of their beliefs they couldn't be objective either when running a secular government?
  
  Just pondering! because I can't relate to all this religion and politics stuff (didn't grow up with that in England).
5. 6/29/08
  
  timethief
  
  Robin has said: "An atheist still has a standpoint and a belief system they are not objective I would want someone who accepted and respected all beliefs."
  
  With respect to "presumed" objectivity ... assuming the candidate in question does largely-- or perfectly-- reflected my political views.
  
  I would be inclined to vote for a political candidate, who professes to respect the right of all people to hold to their own beliefs, provided that:
  (1) the candidate publicly professed to uphold the separation of church and state; and provided that
  (2) the candidate does do not play the "faith card" as part of their electioneering campaign.
  
  I would NOT vote for a candidate who:
  (1) made no public profession of support for the separation of church and state; and who
  (2) played the "faith card" as part of their electioneering campaign; and/or who
  (3) made a public profession of being able to accept and respect all the many contradictory tenets of belief systems that others hold to.
6. 6/29/08
  
  timethief
  
  The bottom line is that religious people in positions of governing authority have demonstrated their inclination to enforce the tenets of their belief system on non-believers to achieve presumed favor with their "God".
  
  They have repeatedly invaded, subjugated and killed people of other cultures and religions or philosophies, while proclaiming that their God was on their side. In fact, these atrocities "in the name of God" are still in evidence today.
  
  IMHO that's exactly what makes religious candidates, who will not publicly profess to uphold the separation of church and, state and, who instead choose to play the "faith card" in their electioneering campaigns to be dangerous and untrustworthy choices as politicians.
  From: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/is-atheism-a-religion#comment_446093
7. 6/29/08
  
  jafabrit
  
  Thank you timethief, you articulated and addressed my concerns perfectly.
8. 6/29/08
  
  timethief
  
  @jafabrit
  I've given this a lot of thought and I tried to be clear when I commented. I'm glad that you understand where I am coming from and that we are in agreement.
6/29/08

satijournal

I'm suspicious of anyone who is overly religious. Most of them are hypocrites.

I don't believe in God as a supreme being but that's not a set of beliefs. It simply has no relevance in my life unless someone tries to impose their religious beliefs on me.

[reply]
6/29/08

kinsey88

Absolutely! There is a reason there is supposed to be a separation of church and state. But, you wouldn't know it the past number of years.

[reply]
6/29/08

duniyah

I'm not from the US, so cant vote for a president anyway. Hypothetically however I would vote for an atheist over a believer. It never fails to surprise me how strong a factor religion has become in American politics. From what I know of American History my understanding is that faith has not always been such a cornerstone of politics and seems to have become increasingly more of an issue in recent decades. As a non-american I would be very interested to know what are the reasons behind that?

[reply]
6/29/08

LGramlich

Being an antitheist, myself, sure I would. I think the antitheism explains the "why" part.

[reply]
6/29/08

TheMrs

They could worship a pink polka dotted elephant for all I care. If we could get a candidate that knew what the hell they were doing and who held most of my political beliefs, they'd get my vote.

I'm not a religious person, so there you go. To each their own.. I don't hold someone's religious choices against them, just as I would hope they wouldn't hold my lack-of against me.

[reply]
6/29/08

cb

I'm not American but for me, it's a bonus to have an aetheist/agnostic leader.

[reply]
6/29/08

jackpayne

If the head is on straight, economically and politically, I couldn't care less about the candidate's religious--or non-religious--beliefs. He can believe in Jesus, God, Zeus, Mercury, Women's Temperance, Alcoholics Anonymous, or George Clooney as the Messiah. Who cares?

I am a firm believer in Treman's Theorem: Impossible things never happen.

[reply]
6/29/08

honeyrose

Religion teaches discipline. A good religioust can make a good president

[reply]
1. 6/29/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  Good parenting also teaches discipline. Also, you didn't really answer my question.
6/29/08

Wisco

I wouldn't vote for someone because they were an atheist, but I'd be happy to vote for an atheist. Unfortunately, the trend is toward people voting for those they can identify with and, since atheists are a real minority, that leaves us out.

[reply]
1. 6/29/08
  
  voodooKobra
  
  Yeah. I wouldn't vote for someone or not vote for someone because of their religion/lack of religion either (so long as they're competent).