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Your opinion on: Forgiving and Forgetting
Posted by PauloCoelho • 4/13/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: clemency, evil, forgetting, Forgiving, good, justice, life, pardon, paulo coelho, revenge
I would like to hear your opinion on forgiving and forgetting. When people hurt you: do you forgive and forget? Or do you just forgive but dont forget?
People who tend to be seen as good usually forgive and forget. But I dont think that this is a question of being good or evil I think the point is about being just. So maybe the tendency to forgive and forget those that have hurt us is not necessarily a good thing. Because if we dont do anything to people that hurt us they will probably continue on hurting others.
This is the way I see it and I would like to hear you about this subject and also your own experiences.
Video question: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwVBh5pBSzE
User Comments
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Granted that we can offend others unintentionally but this is not what I refer to hereinafter.
It takes just as much energy to choose to offend as it does to choose to be offended. And the greatest beneficiary in a situation of forgiveness is the person who does the forgiving.
Forgiveness releases the control and power that you gave to the offending person and situation, and the negativity attached to them that continues to manifest in your life. Choosing to forgive another who you chose to give the power to offend you in the first place, removes you from the role of being a victim.
Choosing forgiveness means you are choosing to get better rather than remaining bitter. It means resolving not to yield to actions driven by bitterness. When you let go of bitterness and grudges, you will no longer define your life by how you have been hurt, and you are able to find compassion and understanding for the person who you chose to allow to offend you.
In other words, when you choose to forgive you choose to set yourself free from the demands of your prideful ego that you have been wronged and you need to be seen by others as being a victim.-
I would have to agree with everything TT has said here. I think forgiveness is imperative to our emotional survival, and that forgetting allows us to move on without the constant drain that painful memories can have on our minds. However, I would be lying if I said I do this consistently. I don't. I'm as subject to whim and the heat of the moment as the next person. -
TT, you are too philosophical. Ordinary mortals like me may forgive, but they seldom forget.
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it is wise to forgive, but foolish to forget.
I know it's an aphorism, but hey. Someone was going to say it eventually.
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It is much healthier to forgive completely, but in addition to not forgetting the hurt, you must learn from it so that it won't happen again. As for the person who commits the offense, we have no control over what they will do or not do but we can make sure that they never do it to us again. Also, I believe at times, forgiving someone particularly when they are remorseful helps them to grow. I think of all of the times I have wronged someone and they forgave me and how much I grew because of the experience and consequently became much closer to myself and the person. -
It depends on what the thing is that someone did to me. I rarely hold grudges and am pretty easy going but I have had some pretty terrible wrongs committed against me in my life. I haven't 'forgiven' the person (my father) who wronged me--but he no longer has power over me. In other words, I have found peace with what happened.
I know forgiveness is not about the person who seeks forgiveness but it is about the person who does the forgiving. It really depends on each situation and I don't think there are any easy answers. -
I believe forgiveness is important, but I choose not to forget those things that I forgive. I want to keep the experience with me so that I remember that I am capable of forgiving, especially when it is something that I wasn't sure if I could forgive for. Those are the moments in life that put you to the test.
Remembering helps us grow as an individual and enables us to forgive again. I would never want to forget that kind of personal growth.
Good question -
We had a big, long discussion on this some weeks ago:
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/i-forgive-youyou-liar-no-i-really-doi-thi...
We really had some novel ideas on the subject of forgiveness that would be too voluminous for one post. Enjoy. -
I have forgiven on many occasions but I never forget.
If we forget what we went through, especially in failed relationships, we may find ourselves in the same situation again, history may repeat itself.
I do think that there are lessons to be learned when someone ill treats us or we put ourselves in relationships that are hurtful to us. Life's lessons can be learned but it is FATAL to forget, less we repeat those same mistakes again.
I have learned to treat people with A VERY LONG SPOON.
I don't invade and desecrate their private space and I have my space and if you step into my space YOU BETTER RUN. So far it's worked beautifully.
We also had a discussion here at:
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/a-time-to-confess-and-forgive -
"People who tend to be seen as good usually forgive and forget"
I don't think that's true at all. Certainly it's a virtue to be forgiving, but I don't know anyone who considers it a virtue not to learn from past mistakes. -
>Because if we dont do anything to people that hurt us they will probably continue on hurting others.
Like invading Irak because Saddam hurt us ? Well, capturing Saddam and even killing him is ok, but for the "collateral" damage on the population, no way I would agree. -
I forgive in a heartbeat!! There is one class of people though I cannot totally forgive and I know that this is just my own pet peeve, but i really have a hard time with these types: These are the people, mostly women, passive-agressive in nature who never EVER get to the point and let you know what they're upset about (which is usually their lives) even if you encourage them to talk; but let stuff build up forever and then unleash and unload on YOU and make everything YOUR'E fault. I have a really hard time with this because to my that is being the laziest one can be in terms of accepting self-responsibility. So since usually those people refuse to acknowlege that they have their own demons and continue to look for a human excuse to take the heat, I don't really respect or believe them. Anyone else, even someone who's called me every name in the book, all they have to say is sorry, rough day, WHATEVER and they are forgiven!!! -
I forgive and forget, well, normally I forget.
There have been times when I have found out that I would have been wiser to not have forgotten. -
It seems that most ills seem to be unintentional and if you bring it to their attention, you can talk about it. However, there are some people with which this is impossible. Because of them, I can truthfully say that I TRY to forgive and forget, but I'm not always successful at that. In which case, I can then channel my grandmother who could hold a grudge for decades, if necessary! -
I think there's no such thing as forgiving but not forgetting. To forgive is to forget, as they say. How could you say you forgave something if you couldn't put it behind you? If you let it haunt you all your life, then you haven't forgiven. And this will eat away your life. So forgiving is difficult but we must strive to be generous. Because to forgive is to be forgiven too. -
Years ago I went through a bitter divorce that left me bitter towards my Ex for years.
Well, he passed away back in 1989 and I was still bitter towards him.
Then one day I thought, this is stupid, I'm bitter and he is dead, so I came to realize how stupid it was to hang on to such thoughts.
Ever since then, I found that to forgive is the better pill to swollow, then to let bitterness eat away at your soul.-
Betsy, I understand what you are saying, and I am sure it worked for you, but quite frankly, I don't think the fact that someone refuses to forgive is the same as being bitter.
All Yorkies are dogs, but not all dogs are Yorkies...in other words, if you are bitter, you surely have not forgiven...but refusing to forgive does not necessarily equate with bitterness.
I don't think universal forgiveness is a panacea...or even emotionally healthy. Some people can use forgiveness as a way to perpetuate a state of victimhood, others can use it to victimize.
I agree with MTyler, that it depends. There are people in this world who, upon hearing they have been forgiven, view the news as a free pass to re-offend: to be forgiven, in their eyes, means that what they did was OK, and therefore it is OK to do it again. There are those who see themselves as virtuous because they have forgiven (often imagined slights), and because they are virtuous, their actions (however destructive others might find them) are above reproach.
Right now, "forgiveness" is trendy. I don't do trendy.
And the only people who truly forget are those who are determined to be victims. -
@betsy
My problemo is kind of the opposite. My dad died when I was young,so I never missed what I didn't have until I had my girls.
Now I'm soooooo angry @ what he missed out on. I know I should 4give but I look @ my girls and think you sob how,why,how????? -
I think at that time of my life, my bitterness stemed from the fact I was not able to forgive him. I let that unforgiveness to fester into something else and consume me.
I had to learn to forgive in order to move on with my life.
But I don't know if things are forgotten, especially with us women! -
@Holly Housewife, you are kind of in the same boat as my daughter that is 31 with two daughters of her own. Her dad passed away when she was 11 years old. She had a hard time understanding why this all happened too.
I have no answer to this. -
It depends on what the thing is that someone did to me. I rarely hold grudges and am pretty easy going but I have had some pretty terrible wrongs committed against me in my life. I haven't 'forgiven' the person (my father) who wronged me--but he no longer has power over me. In other words, I have found peace with what happened.
I know forgiveness is not about the person who seeks forgiveness but it is about the person who does the forgiving. It really depends on each situation and I don't think there are any easy answers.
I also agree with mtyler. It depends on the situation. There are some people in my life who abused me and other children that I do NOT choose to forgive. They feel no regret for what they did. Like Melinda I have found my peace and moved on without either forgiving or forgetting. But this is a rare situation. In all other cases in my life I have been able to forgive. -
@Timetheif
Abuse is the worse thing to deal with in life. To tis day I find it hard to watch any movie which envolves someone being abused.
It takes years to heal if ever. So I can understand why you can not forgive in these instances. -
@Betsy
What I have experienced throughout my life is stereotyping that made it very difficult and even impossible to reveal the abuse, how I felt about it, and what to do to heal from it. When we say "abuse" most assume we are talking about a male abuser. When we say "mother" most assume that we love ours. When we say "family" we assume that older and wiser family members will help children rather than looking away and sweeping stuff under the carpet.
Well, my mother was and is a mentally ill person who abused her children horribly. I am the eldest and because she was dysfunctional and because my father worked away from home, I became the little mother who raised the others and who took all the blows she aimed at them too. My extended family members knew what was going on. They were aware of the injuries and did nothing to intervene or to get medical help. They kept the whole horrid scenario secret.
I view my recovery as being a life long process. Part of that process is well underway. I'm dealing with the remaining issues very well in therapy and in a great group of survivors who had similar experiences. In this one situation in my life, forgiveness is not on the horizon. -
@Timetheif
I was the little mother too. -
TT, sounds like your mother and mine went to the same school of parenting except, blessedly, she stopped with two kids.
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It depends on what needs forgiving and forgetting. There's countless little things I've forgiven and most likely forgotten by now.
However people have also tried to screw me over so hard that I've not forgiven, not forgotten and screwed them over twice as hard. In fact, I had an entire family evicted and bankrupted once because they did a number on me. My point being, some things are not to be forgiven. -
It is hard to forget something that has really made a negative impact in you. But, at the end of the day, all we could just do is to forgive and let the pain pass, for it would not do us any good if we keep remembering the pains and sufferings and the feeling of hurt. -
I believe that only God can forgive and forget. Humans can forgive but when we are hurt the actions that hurt us are burned into our brains and surface again when similar events happen again. What we can do is to forgive and then control whether we will react or act on situations. You know you have forgiven someone when you can hope (or pray) that the other person be blessed. -
I can let go and not hold grudges but I don't see forgiving that person as an essential component of that process.-
Exactly!
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I can forgive, but I'll never forget. Not because I am a mean angry person, but just so I am aware of this particular individual in the future.-
I hate this idea that if a person doesn't forget somehow they are bitter and angry, don't you? Remembering what happens to us (good or bad) is what shapes who we are and helps us learn what to to or not do next time.
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I heard a saying once:
"Women tend to forgive, and yet never forget."
"Men tend to forget, and yet never forgive." -
Understanding! When something happens, I try to understand why it did. Not just blaming others, but thinking how I could cause it too. -
An Eye for an Eye plus tooth. -
If you can't forgive and forget, then you may wind up with this unfortunate condition - PTSD. Nobody wants that.
michaelguzzo.blogspot.com/2009/05/manufacturing-victims.html-
That's PTED. PTSD is a little different.
Also, my hate and anger keep me warm at night.
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I gotta quit coming to this thread. I have mascera on
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When one is forgiving, it is not really forgiving.
When one is forgetting, it is probably truely forgiving.-
Sorry - posted in the wrong reply area. -
@WW: HOPE - the lack of hope is one of the things that causes most people to believe that they cannot continue on in life the way it is - and that they cannot believe that they have the ability to change the situation that they are in.
That hits the nail on the head. Most of us can endure the pain we carry today because we can look forward to a time when it will be better. But when that hope is erased, when you have no power to change your life, when you look forward and you see an endless string of days melting into an endless stream of years of the same pain...or worse...the wish to die to escape can be overwhelming. -
@WW: But the survivors often have a hard time understanding that the person who commits suicide isn't being selfish...
IMO, this is a selfish attitude on the part of the survivors, being unwilling to look beyond their own pain to have empathy for the one who died, to presume motives of the deceased other than a compelling need to escape literally unbearable torment, to refuse to acknowledge that one commits such an act not out of selfishness but out of the most unimaginable depths of despair. It is the nature of us all...human and animal alike...to become self-absorbed when we are in pain. And the greater the pain, the deeper the self-absorption. This is not selfishness but, in fact, a survival mechanism. If our pain is emotional, we might become reflective or we might simply block out everything in an attempt to keep the pain at bay. Some of us eventually work our way back to functioning...others of us come to believe there is no hope of things ever getting better and the only alternative to a long, slow lifetime of endless agony is to escape.
Suicide is a tragedy caused by the death of hope and the suicide deserves our most profound sympathy, not our anger or recriminations.
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Holly - your dad - well - No matter the reason... Truly probably couldn't see the future and your need for him to be around.
I hope you forgive him because death... well... it's something everyone has to do. Sometimes we cannot choose when or where, and sometimes, even if we choose when or where, when it's too late, we realize the mistakes we've made an wish we could choose a different time or place. But there is absolutely NOTHING we can do about it then...
And only the people left behind are hurting or angry.
I hope... When it is my time to go - that everyone will forgive me for taking off from this wonderful party a bit earlier than them...
I would hate to die and have my family so angry at me - no matter how or why I died. It would tear me apart... It would be awful.
Your girls need YOU. And you probably need them.
Since your Dad couldn't be there for you - maybe this is the best time for you to give them what you can of yourself.
Good Luck on that. OK?
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About the Forgiving and Forgetting Part:
Me... I tend to forget most things - and forgive everything - because I always try to understand the reasons behind everything.
I try to put myself in the other person's shoes.
THE one person I have a HARD time forgiving - is myself.-
Well ww,suicide is the most selfish things a person could do. I just can't fathom why someone would do it knowing what I know now
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Those who commit suicide believe inside themselves that they are unworthy or that there is no other options.
They have reached the lowest point of their own thoughts and cannot see a way out of the darkness.
There are many reasons for suicide Holly. And almost ALL of them have nothing to do with the people who are left behind.
When a person chooses to end their own life - it is because they have lost all hope in themselves and cannot believe it is possible to function at that level ANY Longer.
The people who are left behind usually feel anger or guilt - which they should feel NEITHER.
Because it truly has NOTHING to do with them. When a person commits suicide, they cannot think of continuing on - for whatever reason. For them, it is too much torture to stay alive.
No matter the reason behind the suicide - the person committing suicide cannot see beyond the end - they cannot think of anything but this as a means to an escape out of the pain and turmoil that they are in.
Some people do it because they cannot see that tomorrow will allow them to become better people. Some do it because they feel they are causing pain and havoc in other people's lives. Some because they have lost hope and cannot see a way out of the world. Some - because they are in mental or physical anguish.
But all of the people who commit suicide do it because they cannot see past that point. For whatever reason - they cannot bring themselves to face another moment alive.
And that is a very personal and very bleak outlook.
There is nothing you or anyone can truly do - if a person feels that the world can no longer give them what they need - or that they can no longer give the world what it needs.
Most MEN commit suicide because they have lost faith in themselves. They cannot provide or cannot feel in control - and they cannot continue on feeling so horribly.
Most WOMEN commit suicide because they believe they are worthless or cannot continue feeling lost or lonely.
However - there are those that are mentally anguished and those who are physically anguished.
Mental Health plays the biggest role in Suicide - and HOPE - the lack of hope is one of the things that causes most people to believe that they cannot continue on in life the way it is - and that they cannot believe that they have the ability to change the situation that they are in.
There are those who feel that the world would be better off without them.
Suicide is multi-faceted and is a very sad thing indeed.
But you --- YOU --- Holly - you cannot believe for a moment that you had anything to do with a suicidal person. NO ONE CONTROLS ANOTHER PERSON that way.
One of the first things I have been taught to help people understand when they are the remaining family or friends of someone who has committed suicide - is that --- THEY ARE NOT IN CONTROL OF OTHER PEOPLE'S Thoughts or emotions. That when someone commits suicide - it is because they themselves have chosen to end time and life for themselves because they have lost the internal will to live. AND NO ONE CAN DECIDE THAT FOR ANYONE ELSE.
It is important to let go of Anger and Guilt - and instead, to try and let it go - because the person who commits suicide does not do it because they want you to be unhappy. They usually have done it because THEY have lost their own happiness. They cannot make their own world look brighter. They cannot believe any more.
So you - as a survivor - you need to know that you are not the reason ANYONE commits suicide.
When researching suicide and suicidal attempts - it has been learned that the person who tries to commit suicide - usually believes so strongly within themselves that THEY are hurting others around them - so they must leave this world. Most people believe that they are the worst things in the world - at the point of suicide - those who do it - are drowning in the belief that they are responsible for the sadness and misery for others - and believe that the only way they can make it RIGHT - is to remove themselves from everyone else's life.
They believe so strongly that they cannot change the outcome - they cannot fix things - they are destroying everyone else's life... that they want to destroy themselves so that EVERYONE ELSE CAN LIVE ON.
There are, of course, other reasons for suicide and suicidal attempts... So this is not to catch ALL people... But the majority believe that the world is better off without them - so they believe that they are HELPING the world and HELPING EVERYONE else.
In a way - they are making themselves Martyrs - and it is hard for the survivors to understand that.
It is hard for the remaining people to understand that taking themselves out of their lives - is what the person thinks will be the best thing for them.
Survivors are usually consumed by guilt.
And this should not be.
YOU ARE NOT THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM CHOOSING.
YOU ARE NOT THE REASON - not in any way, shape or form - that they chose to do what they did.
No matter what - the person who chose to do this last and final step - that person MADE THAT DECISION.
Whether they regretted it - doesn't matter, because it is too late to figure it out.
And they are lost, sad souls Holly.
Instead of being angry - find a way to understand - it will be the only thing that makes you truly believe and let go. Understanding is usually the key to make everything click into place.
If you continue to hold anger for something you cannot change - and you continue to feel guilt or hurt for something that cannot be fixed - then you are only hurting yourself.
There is nothing you can do to change what has happened.
The only thing you can do is change how you understand your father.
AND understanding that your father believed that there was no hope - and that his presence made everything else worse surrounding him - well - understanding that it had nothing to do with you --- knowing that... will help you tremendously.
Holding that anger - it only hurts you.
Forgiving yourself and him - well ---- that might actually help you. Because inside yourself - there is a piece of PEACE that everyone needs. A way to come to terms with the concept and the reality.
AND - sometimes - coming to peace with the past - is what allows us to continue and survive on...
I wish you ONLY the best Holly. -
"SweetViolet
@WW: HOPE - the lack of hope is one of the things that causes most people to believe that they cannot continue on in life the way it is - and that they cannot believe that they have the ability to change the situation that they are in.
That hits the nail on the head. Most of us can endure the pain we carry today because we can look forward to a time when it will be better. But when that hope is erased, when you have no power to change your life, when you look forward and you see an endless string of days melting into an endless stream of years of the same pain...or worse...the wish to die to escape can be overwhelming."
Exactly.
But the survivors often have a hard time understanding that the person who commits suicide isn't being selfish... They just cannot see beyond to a better time. -
Ww and sv
I wish so bad I could see it that way. I just look @ my 2 beautiful girls and see the relationship they have with their daddy, and then I see me and my little bro as kids again. We didn't have that kind of relationship and bc of the suicide we ended up having to deal with a mother who was an alcoholic mother who chose horrible men over us,which I'm not angry @ her bc I realize now the pain she was in.
I know that everything happens for a reason and if all of that didn't happen I wouldn't be the strong woman and best mom I can be. I just wish things coulda been different -
Ww
I have read ur reply like 20 times. I wish soooooo bad I could let this hurt go. I just don't know how. I definately know something is going on in my heart,bc of all these silly dreams,and other stuff going on. I think this past year I hated,him and now it has just turned into complete anguish. That just isn't me at all. I'm holly and I always have to be happy,strong,and take care of everything. It has just been a really really weird time in my life and I'm trying to make since of it all.
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I believe we can forgive but I do not believe we can forget. Forgiving is an action we can take but forgetting involves our mind and sometimes the pain and wounds of life are too great. The good news is by forgiving someone who has hurt us we can control how the pain and wounds affect us. Only God can forgive and forget.
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I have found it to be true that time heals all wounds. Sometimes it takes many years to heal.
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People who forgive and/or forget are weak and stupid.
If someone does me wrong I'll never forget and never forgive them. I've survived emotionally, mentally and physically perfectly fine for 29 years doing it!-
On the contrary, It takes a very strong person to forgive and forget!
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No - it takes a gullible person who deserves to be done wrong again by that person.
If someone steals from me, there's no way I'm going to forget just so the bastard can steal from me again.
Forgiving and forgetting is stupid and anyone who does it deserves to be wronged again and again and again... until they learn not to RETRUST people. -
Shame you feel that way othellobloke.
Are you married or do you plan to be married?
She will hurt you some day.
Will you not forgive her?
You better hope she can forgive you, because you are far more likely to cause her more pain over the years than she is to cause you pain.
You better hope that both of you can forget too, otherwise you will be dealing with the same issues over and over and over as the years pass.
I assume that since you are not willing to forgive and forget you do not expect other to forgive you for the wrong you do to them, for the pain you cause them. I assume you do not expect or hope that they will forget your wrongs against them, the pain you caused them.
I assume you willingly remove yourself from the lives of those that you bring pain to and have wronged in someway.
Not making attempt to forgive makes one, as you put it, weak and stupid IMO. I see it as an indication of extreme selfishness and arrogance.
Again, just my opinion. -
Wow, RF...this is scary! We are in complete agreement again!
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2 times on the same day!
I'm sure it's a trend that can't continue. :-)
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Oh what a pity!
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@Betsy
I feel the same way too.
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I have better things to do with my time than think about people in my past or in my life who were or tried to be mean to me. To forget is to be free. And I want to be free.-
I've been learning so much about that this summer.
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You can forgive, but you will never forget, no matter how hard you try.-
I believe you can forget.
It is certainly easy to forget the majority of the pain you cause others, why should it be that much harder to forget the majority of the pains caused to you? -
How can you truly forget? We aren't computers where you can delete a file and go on. We are shaped by our experiences; therefore, they are always a part of us whether we are conscious of it or not.
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I think through time you can forget. Over the years your perception on things changes. Somehow it softens to harshness of things.
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The same way you forget anything, you don't focus on it, you stop thinking about it, you no longer give it any consideration.
You may not forget every last thing that has happened to you, but you can forget a good number of things.
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it depends on too many things.. i think its best to move on if you cant forgive .. ignore but always keep the lesson in mind so that you dont fall in the same trap twice.
i wish life's answers were so easy. -
You forget by moving on to other things, by not dwelling on the past. New interests, new relationships, engage and consume you. You become 100% absorbed in your present activity. Everything that happened in your life before slowly fades out of thought and memory and eventually becomes irrelevant.
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I would say that people forgive, but never "forget". And I don't think it's wise to forget, either. If you forget (as in never think of it again, as if it never happened) then you have nothing to learn from.
However, forgiving does, in a round about way mean that you will "forget" the incident or harm. Not that you don't remember it, but that you do not keep it in your mind as something to be used against the person at a later date. As nothingprofound said - you forget by moving forward, and the incident becomes irrelevant for that particular person or event. However everyone should remember certain harm or at least warning signs depending on the incident so that they can further improve their character judgement, their own reactions, and/or protect themselves in the future.-
It is hard to forgive in some things, but harder to forget.
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The wisdom or lack of in forgetting could be dependent on the offense the persons is forgetting or not forgetting, couldn't it.
If I leave a cookie on my plate and my wife eats when I get up to go get some milk, that is an offense I should likely be prepared to both forgive and forget. -
What about a little twist.
Forgiving yourself and forgetting your stupid mistakes?
I know I've some things from years ago that will pop in my head and it'll just piss me off that I was so stupid to have done this or that.
Some of that stuff I should not be carrying around anymore, some of it I consider a good reminder. -
Yes RF That is a good twist on things! We are the hardest on ourselves!
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Well, unless we get amnesia we never really actually forget. (OK, maybe you could forget about the cookies incident. But that's because it' snot important nor hurtful in the least - more like annoying. Particularly if you had a tall cold glass of milk).
I also do not believe it is wise to forget the mistakes you've made, either. Or the mistakes others have made, regardless if they affected you or not. I will never forget certain mistakes I've made - and because of that, I am certain I will not repeat them. I will never forget the mistakes some of my family members have made (in their own lives) - and by doing so, I am not doomed to be in the precarious positions they are in today.
Remembering isn't bad at all - so long as you also remember that you forgave the person for the offense, and what it means to forgive a person.
There was an ad at the bottom of this page - it said "Forgive and let go" and I think that's more appropriate of a phrase. You don't forget - you let go.
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I've been hurt by more people than I can count and to be perfectly honest I rarely forgive or forget!
I would forgive if someone truly apologised or wanted my forgiveness, but that's never happened. I don't think I'd ever forget, though. I think that even I'd forgiven someone and they had come back into my life I would always be wary of them on some level.
Having said that...there are a few people who hurt me years ago and who never apologised, but I understand why they did it and if I encountered them I would probably be happy to start over. I don't think I can hold people accountable for their actions when they were 17/18!
Also, I do judge complete strangers by the actions of people I knew previously with the same personality type. I'm wary about trusting certain people instantly. For the last few years I've been able to recognise people's personalities on sight...I've never been wrong!-
That's some interesting insight on personalities. I suppose we all do that to some extent, either consciously or not -
@siuil
I can understand that about judging strangers by the actions of others because history seems to repeat itself.
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why bother... just fuel for working out with a Heavy Bag
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One time, I knocked my husband clear across the room while "working it out" on a bag.
He has been hesitant to volunteer for stress relief duty since then, unless that stress relief includes some rowdy...uhm...naughty time....
*snickers* -
I don't have a heavy bag, but I feel like I could use one... like, now
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Oh
I would let you borrow my pads and stuff, but I don't think I could get it there fast enough...
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Hello Paulo and everybody,
I feel-think that if the world of phenomena it's just a dream, the Conciousness dream, nobody hurts and nobody is hurt. However, flowing naturally with everything, is perfectly right to reprove or rebuke those who act in harmful ways, whitout we feel inner violence about it. But saying it is different than doing it. Hahahahaha, so we go practicing.
Blessings,
Haver-
Very interesting train of thought
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Thanks for your comment, Betsy. Blessings.
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you are welcome
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So u think everthing is nothing.is that ur train of thought
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That is only a point -but important- within this discussion. And i find the thoughts are nothing too. I'll explain it. For me, thoughts are dreams about dreams. Because everything we can perceive are phenomena. Phenomena are always changing, they start and end, birth and die, appear and disappear. Now you see them, later you don't see them anymore. Therefore, they don't have truly reality. So, the words "nothing", "ilusion" or "dream" are good names for them.
I find that Reality is beyond phenomena, and beyond space and time. Reality never changes. It's pure, complete, perfect; and It has no limits. It's the source of phenomena. We can call It the Absolute, and includes everything we perceibe as Their pure and self-perfect reflexes. Only the human mind divides, fragments and judges "good" or "bad","easy" or "difficult", etc, creating anxiety, fear and suffering, leading people to the blind.
In this way, the world is "Virtual reality", as in Matrix
It´s just my point of vew.
However, very wise people like Sri Ramana Maharshi or Jiddu Krishnamurti, for example, spoke and wrote very clearly about this. And many others spiritual and philosophical teachers and masters in many times and cultures.
Nowadays, Quantum Physics is proving it.
Blessings.
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I think that to truly forgive means that you must forget. If you remember the hurt, pain, disappointment, or anguish...is it possible to truly forgive?-
To forgive in the purest sense, I think you are right deangel. That makes me wonder are there different levels of forgiveness?
I guess we will have to wait and see if Paulo has any thoughts on this. -
But if you've forgotten, how can you say you've forgiven?
You can't forgive someone for something if you have neglected, ignored or outright wiped the incident out of your memory. Because then you're just treating the person as if nothing ever happened.
Is that truly forgiveness?
I don't think it is, because to forgive someone you must be able to look beyond the pain and hurt, not forget or ignore it. You must be able to treat the person as you did before full well knowing that they had the capacity to hurt you, not treat them as if they never hurt you.
It is much harder to treat someone with love and respect and to trust them if you remember what happened, and it is much much easier to forget the whole thing, and go on with life-as-usual.
Does that make any sense?
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I have no problems with forgiving though it actually depends on if the person is truly sorry. But if by forgetting you mean not remembering and giving the person another opportunity to hurt me again, heck NO! I do not forget!-
Yes You hit it right on the head of the nail. It is hard to forgive someone when they could care less what you think or feel.
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2 differents things one is not opposite of each other. Forgetting is rather a physiological process, no morality is involved, forgiving is a psychological process, morality is involved.
Forgiving requires true strength because you must have will to fight your revenge feelings. -
I'll leave it at this:
I never forget and you can only pray I forgive. -
It takes a long time to forget and many times to forgive someone, something or yourself. It is good to practice letting go every time you think or begin to dwell on hurts of the past. To forgive means to let go and why not make your journey through life as light as possible? Try to stop dragging around hurt feelings and reliving the emotions and move onward. Life is much shorter than most of us ever anticipate. -
I think that if you dwell on it, it will pull you down.
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I know if it were not for my power to forgive I would be locked away somewhere.-
Good point, Fred!
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