Political Discussions
Automaker's Bailout: What About Toyota?
Posted by AlexGreat • 12/11/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: automakers, bailout, Cars, Government, manufacture, socialism
There is an urgent need to act fast to save the failed car manufacturers yet widespread confusion about how to do it seems to prevent that. I don't blame anybody for that: It's not politicians job to manage automakers and the failed automakers' management has already proven their incapability.
The answer is simple: Give the money to the successful Japanese and Korean automakers so they can take over the failed big three and nurse them back to health. This is a win-win-win solution.
P.S.
Socialism is bad! Government messing with the economy is socialism. Yet leaving the people working for the three failed automakers out in the cold before Christmas is outrageous. The only solution is ask thous who know how to make cars profitably and they will use your money wisely and productively
User Comments
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Polybore sort of agrees with you. However Polybore does not understand why the big three do not consider a merger.
The problem with your suggestion i.e. a take over from an overseas manufacturer like Toyota is that they would probably ship the manufacturing out of the US in order to reduce costs. Although the brand names would survive the jobs would be gone.
At this time the best bet to keep at least some auto production in the US is a merger and (unfortunately) downsizing until the economy picks up again.-
I don't think Toyota will move out of the US they moved in and are paying wages equal to the big three.
Merging the big three won't do any good. Three fools are no better than one, probably worse.
Just to be clear I have enormous respect for the American auto industry and love American cars but when things go wrong someone has to be responsible and it's not the workers or engineers.
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Those "successful" foreign carmakers aren't any more successful than the big 3, they're just doing their begging elsewhere.
www.autonews.com/article/20081126/ANE02/811269995
Toyota's Smith calls for EU aid for auto industry
The auto industry needs a 40 billion euro loan package from the EU to help develop more environmentally friendly cars, the head of the UK trade body said Tuesday.
The industry is facing the worst economic conditions in a generation, threatening research and development at carmakers, said Graham Smith, president of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).
"In times of trouble, research and development is often one of the first budgets to be cut," said Smith, who is also a senior vice president at Toyota Motor Europe.
"But we cut these budgets at our peril. If anything we should create a ring of steel around them."
The European Commission meets Wednesday to consider an economic stimulus package, which could include 40 billion euros in short-term loans from the European Investment Bank. The loans will help the industry fund development of the next generation of greener cars without depleting cash flows.
The problem is very simple and very worldwide -- there's a credit crunch, no one's giving loans, and car sales are dependent on loans. No company's doing any better than any other company. The problem is universal and the story that American carmakers are alone in this is a convenient myth.-
To be fair Toyota are specifically asking for the cash to help develop more efficient vehicles not to bail the industry out.
The EU is set to pass into law an ambitious EU Carbon emission reduction of 20% by 2020. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7765094.stm
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Toyota Motor Corp. ADS(TM)
64.51 1.11 12/11
General Motors Corp.(GM)
4.12 -0.48 12/11
Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.(7201.TO)
311.00 -37.00 12:36a.m
online.wsj.com/article/SB122903816924599853.html
Just to reinforce the point.-
Lol... reinforce the point.. Do you drop anvils at people as hints too? lol
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I meant support, anvils are used to make shoes for donkeys :-)
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/so-what-if-americas-big-three-automakers-... -
Toyota's not an American company. That's probably the #1 reason.-
Toyota probably makes most of its money and most of its cars in America and is probably owned by mostly American shareholder. Anyway that's not the main point I only used it as an example and to provoke some debate. My main point is that I think its stupid to bail out failure. Save peoples livelihood but put someone in charge who has a chance to succeed.
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It's kind of a moot point now. Bush is probably going to pull the rug out from under the Senate GOP by giving the automakers TARP money. That'll keep them going until Obama gets in and there's an even larger dem majority.
thehill.com/leading-the-news/white-house-aid-to-automakers-rankles-gop-2008...
Looks like union busting at the expense of massive unemployment and economic disaster isn't going to happen. How disappointing for labor haters.-
Maybe I was wrong Toyota doesn't make Mustangs :-)
jalopnik.com/5109059/2010-ford-mustang-first-drive
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Oh, and BTW:
Socialism is bad! Government messing with the economy is socialism.
No, it's not.-
Yes maybe you are right Swedish socialism might be OK.
I meant North Korean - Cuban socialism is bad.
Now that even Russian and Chinese mafia don't seem to like socialism anymore.
But Marx was right that capitalism is going to screw it periodically, wasn't he? Yet government and the economy usually means corruption, waste and degradation it short a lose-lose situation. -
Somebody... Please hold me back....
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I guess Sweden wasn't a very good example:
Auto Woes Threaten to Wreck Volvo and Saab
Iconic Swedish brands Volvo and Saab are both US-owned, but they may not benefit from any US auto bailout. More..
www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,593948,00.html
Auto Woes Threaten to Wreck Volvo and Saab -
Yes maybe you are right Swedish socialism might be OK.
I meant North Korean - Cuban socialism is bad.
No, I mean that "government messing with the economy" isn't socialism. By that argument, adjusting the prime rate or issuing bonds is commie meddling. Since Obama was elected, the right has been abusing the English language by making "socialist" synonymous with "anything we don't agree with."
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Yes I agree with what you say. If free market economy could do without regulation the government wouldn't be able to get near it in a democratic society yet the government giving money directly to a capitalist company seems like crossing the line and it could be that one thing leads to another and one day you find yourself on your way to Siberia with no one to speak up in your defense.
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They aren't "giving" money to anyone. It's a loan. What is it with you guys and your misuse of the English language?
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Sorry for the confusion. A loan gives certain control over the debtor that's what I had in mind. If they have failed they certainly need help but the government is not good at managing car makers remember British Leyland?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4S5uTBVK6U
British Leyland - The downfall by Jeremy Clarkson. One of the ... -
I found a place where it looks they need big sturdy American automobiles and won't run out of petrol soon:
russianfun.net/russian-fun/needs-must-russian-style/
Check it out it's hilarious -
What about Toyota?
www.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/business/worldbusiness/23toyota.html?_r=1&hp
Toyota Motor, the Japanese auto giant, said Monday that it expected its first operating loss in 70 years, underscoring how the economic crisis was spreading across the global auto industry.
On Monday, Toyota said it expected an operating loss in its auto operations of 150 billion yen, or $1.7 billion, for the fiscal year ending March 31. That would be the company’s first annual operating loss since 1938, a year after the company was founded, and a huge reversal from the 2.3 trillion yen, or $28 billion, in operating profit earned last year.
Analysts said Toyota’s downward revision, its second in two months, showed that the worst financial crisis since the Depression was threatening not just the Big Three but also even relatively healthy automakers in Japan, South Korea and Europe. Many other companies will also soon be reporting losses.
They're losing money hand over fist because they're so successful and all.-
I know. That's inevitable. Still not asking the taxpayers to pay for their private jets and fat Christmas bonuses. But if it's OK with you who am I to complain, I'm not paying taxes in the US as yet, still it doesn't seem fair.
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"They're losing money hand over fist because they're so successful and all."
In an economy where the auto industry is suffering in general, being the one losing less money IS success..
Not to mention that Toyota is currently wery low on their debt levels, and has about 18 billion in cash reserves.
In other words, they can maintain current levels for 10+ years.
Yes, that is being successful... -
Totally, totally off topic, but this sentence:
Toyota is currently wery low on their debt levels
Means that from here on out, I will read Erik's posts with the voice of Elmer Fudd -
Means that from here on out, I will read Erik's posts with the voice of Elmer Fudd
Or Chekhov from Star Trek. "Where are the nuclear wessels?" -
Anok....
This from the person who started the "Bush's lagacy" thread?
Learn English from Martin Shorts "Fronk"???
merrry x-mas
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niukular
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Getting back to the question in the thread, I was and am against a bailout for the Detroit 3, and for Toyota. If banks won't loan these companies money, that suggests they are not a good risk. If investors won't buy or hold their stocks, same thing. Chrysler in particular is a good example, since it's largely owned by a Wall Street firm that won't put any money into the company.
I'm all for helping people keep their jobs, but pumping money into the Detroit 3, GM in particular, seems like a stopgap, a way to ease the pain of (almost?) inevitable failure. -
Still they make good cars. Cars that many customers love. It's management who screwed up. Management should look ahead and be prepared for contingencies. I agree it's not worker's fault and it's them who should get the money.
The big three make cars of other manufacturers admire and learn from.
No one would be happy if they stop doing that.
That's why bad management is inexcusable.-
Still they make good cars. Cars that many customers love. It's management who screwed up.
You talking about Toyota here or what?
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