Political Discussions
Barack Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
Posted by MidwestMom • 10/09/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: news, nobel peace prize, obama
Here's the latest.
" President Barack Obama won the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize on Friday in a stunning decision designed to encourage his initiatives to reduce nuclear arms, ease tensions with the Muslim world and stress diplomacy and cooperation rather than unilateralism.
Nobel observers were shocked by the unexpected choice so early in the Obama presidency, which began less than two weeks before the Feb. 1 nomination deadline.
White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Obama woke up to the news a little before 6 a.m. EDT. The White House had no immediate comment on the announcement, which took the administration by surprise."
Here's the link to the story: news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_nobel_peace
My question is... are you surprised? What effect (if any) do you think this will have on Obama's role as a negotiator esp. in the middle east?
User Comments
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I'm surprised because he hasn't done much yet. There are many people who are more deserving.
I don't think that this will effect his ability to negotiate. I don't think the people on the other side of the table will give up anything more because Obama has some award. -
My reaction was that it seemed premature. I could see maybe after seeing how things play out in a few years.
I haven't seen their rational yet -
I would say it is premature. I wonder if this might be a maneuver in attempt to get/keep the US owning up on diplomatic promises.-
premature adulation?
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I was surprised considering that he is in two wars, albeit with one winding down, and we've got some other hot spots. I was also surprised because of how young his presidency was. But we have to see this from their part of the world. From where they are looking, the US is finally engaged in major diplomatic efforts after a long absence and much counterproductive work, and apparently this administrations efforts are having a positive effect on international diplomacy more generally.
By the way, the LA Times has reproduced Oslo's text: latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/10/nobel-committee-explains-obamas... -
Politico talks about the politics of this here in the US, which the Nobel committee obviously never considered. Reactions on the right are predictably boorish, though there is pretty much surprise all around. Obama's own comments are quite good, actually, for he realizes how young his presidency is, and he appreciates the political sensibilities of opponents here at home, who like to characterize him as some sort of weakling at best, or even an un-American sellout.
www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28129.html
Of course, the right-wing comments, especially the most populist ones, are a stark reminder of where we could be at the moment. For instance, does anyone remember McCain pushing a Cold War agenda last year? -
There are two "types" of peace prizes awarded.
The one that most people think of, is the achievement based one. This is the most commonly awarded. Last years was a perfect example of such an award. Given to Martti Ahtissari after a very long list of dedicated work and achievements.
Then there is the "I want to achieve" one. For instance like the one given to Arafat, Perez and Rabin for Middle east peace way before any peace has been established. And shortly before the peace talks broke down and erupted into violence.
The "I want to achieve" prizes are often given out when the Nobel Committee wants to promote a direction. It is basically a political nod.
THis is an "i want to achieve". Based on one of his stump speeches apparently if one reads the last paragraph from Clio's link.
Considering he has failed in pretty much every tangible result he has attempted to achieve. It's a bit of a joke.-
I agree with you -- up until your last sentence.
It's interesting to note that his nomination came in February -- less than a month into his presidency.
He has made a difference in the area of nuclear proliferation, and his pursuit of multilateralism is a sharp contrast from the policy of the previous administration.
To me, those are facts worthy of note. -
He has made a difference in Nuclear proliferation?
What difference. EVERY President I can remember has talked about how bad Proliferation is. So what is the difference he's made.
And his nomination came in 12 days after taking office. Although that is less than a month, it's also less than half a month.
By then he still hadn't been able to choose a dog. Let alone have any real impact on world peace.
That's why it's a joke. -
he has made no difference in nuclear proliferation. Just a bunch of speeches. It's all talk - who cares it has achieved nothing. -
Interesting point csiunatc that just shows how farcical the whole thing is. If there are two 'types' of peace prizes it begs the question on how the peace prize selection committe compares between 'those who have actually done stuff' and 'those who have just made a lot of promises but so far done nothing'. The two categories are not equivalent and it is not fair to those with real achievements if the second category of people who have done nothing is included.
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Those seaky weegies and their creepy nordic ways.
Norway has been heavily involved, as an intermediary, in the Middle East peace process for quite some time now.
Although Obama had not been in office for any time at all when the nominations were made he had outlined his position on the Middle East ages before he was actually elected.-
Wow.. I Have a position on the peace process too. In fact, I think pretty much every Israeli and Palestinian has a position on it.
Opinions and .... holes, everyone's got one. Guess you have to be Obama for that to be considered for a global award. lol -
Or the President of the United States.
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A sampling of world opinion: thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/world-reaction-to-a-nobel-surprise/?re...
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For once, I 100% agree with Mr. Obama.
"Mr. Obama said, "I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many transformative figures that have been honored by this prize.""
online.wsj.com/article/SB125507885722575625.html?mod=igoogle_wsj_gadgv1&
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The Nobel site says that the award was: "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"
As I undererstand it, his work on nuclear nonproliferation was part of the deal. Anyone have a link to their full statement?-
Yes, follow the LA Times link I provided above.
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My take is what can we all do to make things more peaceful and loving. Winning is honoring someone who has tried to make a difference and it is one which the world notices.
Shouldn't we all try to change and be better. President Obama is a roll model and I think we should follow his lead.
Congratulations Mr. President.-
What has Obama done besides say a few nice things, something which every president does? Doing it eloquently might perhaps deserve a prize in Literature, but certainly not a prize of action like the Peace Prize. As far as I can tell, Obama has a lot of power and hasn't done much useful with it, especially towards World Peace. -
Respectfully, JJ, not every president does that.
In fact, some presidents start wars and back out of existing nuclear treaties...
-just sayin' -
No, some presidents get STEREOTYPED as not doing that. If you looked more carefully at the careers of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, you would find that they did a lot more of that then you think, esp. GW in Palestine and in Africa.
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Gerald Ford brought the Vietnam War to a close, signed the Helsinki Accords, and SALT. I'll give him some credit...
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He's close to death too. If he didn't get it this year he might never get it, at least not when he's alive to see it and receive it in person.
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He died a couple years back
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford
At least he got a class of aircraft carries named after him -
That's sad. It's terrible we never honored the man when he was alive.
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that should have read "aircraft carriers" my bad
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It is quite funny really. The only people that qualify to say who wins the award is the Committee.
Obama won it ergo he deserved it.
Around the world the award is supported with the exception of this bunch of unusual bedfellows. Peaceniks, Islamic fundamentalists and the Republican Party.
"We condemn the award of the Nobel Peace Prize for Obama. We condemn the institute's awarding him the peace prize. We condemn this year's peace prize as unjust."
An Islamic Jihad leader.
"Why should Obama be given a peace prize while his country owns the largest nuclear arsenal on Earth and his soldiers continue to shed innocent blood in Iraq and Afghanistan?"
Various peaceniks.
And the GOP chairman.
"unfortunate that the president's star power has outshined tireless advocates who have made real achievements working towards peace and human rights."
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8298802.stm
www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gRIBEH2RfBwEWH0vKw8ZaIOiuSgQD9B7...-
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Poly, you said:
"Around the world the award is supported with the exception of this bunch of unusual bedfellows. Peaceniks, Islamic fundamentalists and the Republican Party."
Ok, so explain to me which of the three each of the following fits into .
K:
Financial Times: What Did Obama Do to Win the Nobel Peace Prize?
I am a genuine admirer of Obama. And I am very pleased that George W Bush is no longer president. But I doubt that I am alone in wondering whether this award is slightly premature. It is hard to point to a single place where Obama's efforts have actually brought about peace - Gaza, Iran, Sri Lanka? The peace prize committee say that he is being rewarded for his "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy." But while it is OK to give school children prizes for "effort" - my kids get them all the time - I think international statesmen should probably be held to a higher standard.
London Times: Absurd Decision on Obama Makes a Mockery of the Nobel Peace Prize
Rarely has an award had such an obvious political and partisan intent. It was clearly seen by the Norwegian Nobel committee as a way of expressing European gratitude for an end to the Bush Administration, approval for the election of America's first black president and hope that Washington will honour its promise to re-engage with the world.
Instead, the prize risks looking preposterous in its claims, patronising in its intentions and demeaning in its attempt to build up a man who has barely begun his period in office, let alone achieved any tangible outcome for peace.
The Guardian: Barack Obama's Nobel Prize: Why Now?
Indeed, the reasoning behind the awarding of the prize to previous American presidents has been easier to discern. Teddy Roosevelt opened the court of arbitration in the Hague and helped mediate a peace treaty between Russia and Japan; Woodrow Wilson was the founder of the League of Nations. Jimmy Carter won his prize for his "untiring efforts to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts".
Which is what makes the awarding of this year's prize to a president who has been in office for a mere nine months an odd departure. It is as if the prize committee had been persuaded to give the award on the future delivery of promises.
The Guardian: Should Obama Accept the Nobel Peace Prize
If I were in the boiler room over there, I would begin by suggesting to the president that he demur altogether. That he tell the committee that while he's deeply touched, he does not in fact feel that he has yet done the work to earn this award. He should then recommend to the committee that it give the prize to Hu Jia, the Chinese dissident who was considered a frontrunner, or someone else whose life's cause could actually benefit from winning the prize (and the hefty cash award that comes with it, which Obama also doesn't need).
Telegraph: Obama's Won the Nobel Peace Prize -- WTF?!
Barack Obama has won the Nobel Peace prize and I'm still reeling at the shock. Most of us are, I should think. Here are my theories as to how it might have come about:
1. Unlike in most of the rest of the world Obama Kool Aid (TM) remains Oslo's most popular beverage.
2. The Norwegian prize committee's sense of irony is growing ever more sophisticated, as it hinted when it gave the prize in 2002 to comedy ex-president Jimmy Carter, and hinted more strongly when it gave the prize in 2007 to climate-fear-promoting comedy failed-president Al Gore.
3. The other candidates on the shortlist were Robert Mugabe; Osama Bin Laden; Ahmed Jibril; and the late Pol Pot.
Australia:
Sydney Morning Herald: They Think He Can: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
YES, surprisingly, he could. Barack Obama, is the shock choice for the Nobel Peace Prize, less than a year after his election as U.S. President.
Italy:
Il Giornale: A Preposterous Choice
Let me be clear: the discourse on Islam in Cairo was beautiful, tall, and it opens up new horizons, but did not lead to anything. And on the other matter, as pointed out repeatedly in this blog, Obama has been evasive or inconclusive, starting with Iran and Afghanistan. Nor can he boast the merits of rapprochement with North Korea, which was brought about by Bill Clinton. He kept only one real promise: the gradual withdrawal from Iraq. Enough to deserve the Nobel Prize?
Germany:
Der Spiegel: Obama's Nobel Prize Is More of a Burden Than an Honor
The Nobel Peace Prize has come too early for Barack Obama. The US president cannot point to any real diplomatic successes to date and there are few prospects of any to come.
Bild: "Wow!" Barack Obama Receives Nobel Peace Prize
It is the most important award in the world. And she goes to U.S. President Barack Obama (48) - he gets this year's Nobel Peace Prize. What a sensation!
Poland:
Krakow Post: "Too Fast" for Obama Nobel, Says Walesa
The former president, himself a Peace Prize winner in 1983, told the press in Warsaw "Who, Obama? So fast? Too fast - he hasn't had the time to do anything yet." This sentiment was reflected by current Prime Minister Donald Tusk: "Shock - absolutely. It's interesting, but shocking."
Canada:
The Globe and Mail: Obama's Premature Prize
The simple explanation for the Committee's decision to cite Mr. Obama at this stage of his presidency is that he is not George W. Bush.
The more generous interpretation is that the decision is hortatory; that is, it is designed to encourage the President to follow a path in U.S. foreign policy that is preferred by Committee members.
Toronto Star: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
Once you catch your breath - Obama has been on the world stage for less than a year “ the decision makes perfect sense. More than other Nobel categories, the Nobel for peace goes to a cause, and only ostensibly to an individual or group.
With Lester Pearson, the award was for diplomatic resolutions of conflict. With Martin Luther King, it was for non-violent pursuit of justice. Two relatively obscure Irish women were honoured for spearheading a non-violent resolution to the Troubles. Jimmy Carter, in 1992, was honoured for diplomatic outside interventions in regions of escalating or potential violence.
National Post: Shiny Prize Went to the Nice Man Who Gave the Best Speech
Obama is being given his award for mere words -- for striking fashionable poses in favour of multilateralism, for making a nice speech in Cairo, for offering "hope." Months after Americans learned to dismiss Obama's 2008 presidential campaign slogans as the meaningless bromides they were, Scandinavians are still drinking his Kool-aid.
China:
China Daily: Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize to Mixed Reviews
US President Barack Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday for giving the world "hope for a better future" and striving for nuclear disarmament, in a surprise award that drew criticism as well as praise.
Middle East:
Al-Jazeera: Doubts Voiced Over Obama Peace Win
A surprised world has greeted the award of the Nobel Peace Prize to Barack Obama, the US president, with a mixture of praise and skepticism.
In Afghanistan, the Taliban mocked the award, saying it was absurd to give it to Obama when he had ordered 21,000 extra troops to Afghanistan this year.
"The Nobel prize for peace? Obama should have won the 'Nobel prize for escalating violence and killing civilians'," Zabihullah Mujahid, a Taliban spokesman, told the Reuters news agency.
Israel:
Jerusalem Post: Peres, Barak Congratulate Barack Obama
President Shimon Peres on Friday sent a letter of congratulations to US President Barack Obama for winning the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize for Peace, telling the American leader that under his leadership, peace became a "real and original agenda."
"Very few leaders if at all were able to change the mood of the entire world in such a short while with such profound impact. You provided the entire humanity with fresh hope, with intellectual determination, and a feeling that there is a Lord in heaven and believers on earth," Peres, himself a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, wrote to Obama.
Haaretz: Obama Administration Official: President "Humbled" by Award
While the decision won praise from statesmen like Nelson Mandela and Mikhail Gorbachev, both former Nobel laureates, it was also attacked in some quarters as hasty and undeserved.
The Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip and opposes a peace treaty with Israel, said the award was premature at best.
"Obama has a long way to go still and lots of work to do before he can deserve a reward," said Hamas official Sami Abu Zuhri. "Obama only made promises and did not contribute any substance to world peace. And he has not done anything to ensure justice for the sake of Arab and Muslim causes."
Pakistan:
The International News: Iranians Call Obama Nobel Award a Mistake
Iranians joined criticism of the surprise award of the Nobel Peace Prize to U.S. President Barack Obama on Friday.
One Tehran resident regarded the award as inappropriate, given U.S. policy in the Middle East.
"In my opinion, when a person cooperates with and supports the Israeli regime, he does not deserve to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. It is a mistake," said Massoud Savoji.
Another resident of the Iranian capital, Maryam Afrouz, praised the U.S. president as a man "who loves to have peace and calm prevail all over the whole world.
Dawn: Wartime President Wins Nobel Peace Prize
Obama's name had been mentioned in speculation before the award but many Nobel watchers believed it was too early to award the president.
The committee said it attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.
Mexico:
El Universal: Compliments and Doubts from the World After Awarding of Nobel to Obama
The awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to U.S. President Barack Obama was praised in many parts of the world, but in others there were stunned reactions, referring to Obama's lack of tangible achievements on the world scene. -
A collection of personal quotes and cometary from a few individual has beens and journalists. The only notable organisation in there is Hamas which kind of adds weight to polybore's earlier observation.
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what's with all the recent references to Pol Pot?
did the C-Street Gang just mail out inspirational pamphletes? -
"Around the world the award is supported with the exception of this bunch of unusual bedfellows."
Really? How about this discussion:
www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/does-obama-deserve-the-nobel-peace-price
Notice that dsriharsha, who is, as far as I can tell, a center-left Atheist living in India, is among the most vehement opponents. I also have a hard time imagining dsriharsha, knowing him as long as I have, as a peacenik ala Burlington, Vermont. How do you know there aren't more like dsriharsha?
Harvey Avatar is not a Republican and is not an Islamic Fundamentalist. He might be a peacenik, I can't really tell. How do you know there aren't more like Harvey Avatar?
NothingProfound could be a peacenik, but I doubt he's a member of a peace movement. Mostly, he just seems like an ordinary left-wing fellow with an individualist streak and a love of comfortable living.
Actually, if you define "peacenik" to include people like NP, it might well comprise 40% of the population or more! Add the Republican Party (45% with almost 0 overlap) and Islamic Fundamentalists (1% with exactly 0 overlap) and you're left with a pretty solid majority (86%) in the United States, and to assume no majority in another country requires a 36% spread, which requires America to be more unique then it probably is for most of the world.
There weren't many posts in that discussion, so now lets look at the discussion we're having right now.
It seems to me that while Agit8r is not truly opposed as Harvey Avatar and dsriharsha are, he certainly doesn't seem especially off-the-walls happy for someones whose President just won the big beautiful Nobel Prize. He certainly doesn't seem like he holds the Nobel Prize in awe. He would also be very offended, I'm sure, if you fitted him with any of these labels. Same with Xmarks and LibertyCast, though I suppose Xmarks, like Harvey Avatar, might be a peacenik (not sure).
The point is that your assertion of universal adulation for this prize seems unfounded. Honestly, I don't think outside of Europe anyone really cares, and even in Europe it's probably starting to give up the ghost. A lot of Nobel Peace Prizes have been handed out irrelevantly (Gore and Arafat are among the most infamous), and Obama, as someone who has sacrificed nothing and achieved little, is hardly a Nelson Mandela.
I admire certain Nobel Peace laureates, but the prize in general, as NP put it in the other discussion, is really quite meaningless, made so by none other then the Nobel committee. And most of the Nobel Peace laureates I admire are from 15 years back or more. -
JJ, I don't think the term peacenik is all that offensive. I would call myself noninterventionist, but for the sake of being lumped together to make a point, I'm sure that simply saying "peacenik" is expedient.
As to why I don't seem overly thrilled, I'm sure that my ongoing criticism of our policies in Afghanistan, etc, tells that story. -
Still, in general I think that polybore's claim about the "legitimacy" of this award in this day and age is largely without basis. A lot of people like Obama, and they'll say he deserved it because it's Obama, but if they gave it to the Pope instead for his various efforts they wouldn't consider it as "impressive."
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I wonder what Biden thinks of all this foriegn-policy-based adoration...
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Polybore is not making any assertion. Just pointing out when you look at world reaction at a governmental/ organisational level it is interesting that those who most stridently criticise the award to Obama are Peaceniks, Islamic fundamentalists and the Republican Party.
An unusual slumber party that makes for.
Anyway as polybore said before the only people that qualify to say who wins the award is the Committee. -
Well poly,
Let's not forget that the same Islamic Fundamentalists were all for Obama winning the election.
www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79660
I guess that means we should align Obama Voters with Them too then? -
@poly: I see. I guess I read this a little differently: "Obama won it ergo he deserved it." I kind of read "ergo" to imply something about the world that I guess you weren't implying.
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csiunatc the leader of Al-Qaida is Osama Bin Laden and he has never been anything but rather less than complimentary about Obama.
Having said that it looks like polybore is going to have to take everything they said in previous posts on this matter back.
A world leader has come out to say Obama did not deserve the award. Hugo Chavez
www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE59A1MU20091011
Whatever happened to the bon ami of international socialism?
Anyway polybore is going to have to update their list now (nuts) to...
it is interesting that those who most stridently criticise the award to Obama are Peaceniks, Islamic fundamentalists, Socialists and the Republican Party. -
If only that would fit in a tweet. It could go viral.
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Here's the email that his political operation sent out to his supporters. (It's already on a ton of blogs.):
> This morning, Michelle and I awoke to some surprising and humbling
> news. At 6 a.m., we received word that I'd been awarded the Nobel
> Peace Prize for 2009.
>
> To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of
> so many of the transformative figures who've been honored by this
> prize -- men and women who've inspired me and inspired the entire
> world through their courageous pursuit of peace.
>
> But I also know that throughout history the Nobel Peace Prize has
> not just been used to honor specific achievement; it's also been
> used as a means to give momentum to a set of causes.
>
> That is why I've said that I will accept this award as a call to
> action, a call for all nations and all peoples to confront the
> common challenges of the 21st century. These challenges won't all be
> met during my presidency, or even my lifetime. But I know these
> challenges can be met so long as it's recognized that they will not
> be met by one person or one nation alone.
>
> This award -- and the call to action that comes with it -- does not
> belong simply to me or my administration; it belongs to all people
> around the world who have fought for justice and for peace. And most
> of all, it belongs to you, the men and women of America, who have
> dared to hope and have worked so hard to make our world a little
> better.
>
> So today we humbly recommit to the important work that we've begun
> together. I'm grateful that you've stood with me thus far, and I'm
> honored to continue our vital work in the years to come. -
I wonder if Obama's $1.4 mil in winnings is going to go towards his cause of earnings or something more self interested like campaign funds?
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Aren't there laws about taking gifts? Or is this something different? I imagine that he would feel compelled to do something philanthropic with it, something related to said prize as well.
Unless he could get away with keeping it. Then he would have a nest egg for whatever it is he's planning on doing in seven years, assuming he gets four more years. But he could hardly talk about such plans right now without summoning amazing amounts of hubris. -
Here's a new article on the question of the cash, though I find one parenthetic remark scary, because it references Wikipedia, although on a relatively minor point: www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/1009/Can_Obama_keep_or_regift_Nobel_cas...
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maybe that is his secret "Stash"
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Apparently a lot of major GOP politicians have decided that it is better not to whine about this one, figuring people will conclude whatever they conclude. www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28141.html
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The world has lost it's mind. The fact that Yasser Arafat won this award should be proof enough that this award for Obama is joke. Come on folks, please think.... Yasser wins an award for peace and Obama wins based on less than two weeks in office.... This only makes the Nobel prize community look like bigger idiots then the one that won.....-
I think this link sums it up....
www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2009/10/how_is_this_a_farce.html
His winning this just seems creepy to me.....
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and Milton Friedman won for economics...
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Why shouldn't he? -
I didn't say that he shouldn't have. Just noting that "the Nobel prize community" isn't just a bunch of leftists
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Let's start by understanding that the Peace Prize is separate from all other Nobel Prizes.
The Peace prize is awarded by Norway, The rest By Sweden. Nobel had heritage in both countries and separated the awards accordingly.
The other Nobel Awards are all given for accomplishments. None of those are given as some kind of encouragement for those that want to, but have accomplished nothing.
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Huh. Gallup notes a slight bounce in Obama's approval rating since the Nobel announcement. (www.gallup.com/poll/123629/Obama-Job-Approval-56-After-Nobel-Win.aspx?CSTS=...) I wonder if that is just a positive reaction to the prize or a negative reaction to the silliness of Michael Steele et. al. Either way, those GOP figures who decided to lay low (www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28141.html) seem to have decided right. Boorishness only goes so far.
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"Boorishness only goes so far."
that's rather optimistic of you -
Well, I didn't define an actual limit. I just suggested there must be one.
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one only dares hope
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one only dares hope
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wondering what is wrong with just saying congratulations Mr. President.-
The problem is that the Nobel prize is supposed to be awarded for accomplishments. The prize is basically saying, "Congratulations Mr. Obama, you are not George Bush". To award Obama the prize for nuclear disarmament when he only gave 1 speech on it at the UNSC and the fact that he was nominated only 10 days after inauguration, clearly shows a political motive. Even Obama himself has admitted he has not accomplished anything to merit the prize. -
People say congratulations for all kinds of occasions where they might have reservations, for example on the occasion of a marriage or engagement. But there are things called manners. Bloggers might not need 'em, but Michael Steele in his capacity as RNC chair surely does.
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Silence, whether stewing or respectful, is always an option.
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Indeed.
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Maybe Howard Dean should have used some of that civility when he accused President Bush of knowing ahead of time that 9/11 was going to occur...
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Why? He's a Democrat, you know they only want these standards to apply to others.
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When you ain't got nothin', you've always got a Democrat criticizing the failed Bush presidency. And it doesn't even matter if it has anything to do with the thread's topic.
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The other side behaved badly so its up to us to behave even worse!!!!!
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"When you ain't got nothin', you've always got a Democrat criticizing the failed Bush presidency."
I believe I pointed out the time Howard Dean accused President Bush of knowing in advance that the 9/11 terror attacks were going to happen. And that is a Democrat criticizing a failed presidency? How do you equate those two? You evidently agree with Howard Dean. I never took you for a conspiracy theorist.
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