Political Discussions
Black Pride Reborn
Posted by Phoenix1962 • 12/11/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: african americans, black voices, caribbean, gay, lesbian, people of color, straight, west indian
Are African Americans where they need to be economically, politically, and socially? What are your thoughts? Does the Black Pride movement need to be reborn?
User Comments
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"Are African Americans where they need to be economically, politically, and socially?"
Some are, some arent', just like the people of every other race I can think of. -
Are they where they need to be?
Depends on on the area, I would suppose.
I wrote a long piece on the cycle of poverty and how that affects social mobility. I would say there is a disproportionate percentage of ethnic minorities living in impoverished areas, which would imply that they are not where they need to be.
But is this related to race, or more to the cycle of poverty that each generation has been born into?
I don't know if a "black pride" movement will actually help lift minorities up out of poverty this time - inf act, it could backfire.
Rather, how about educational pride? Community pride - regardless of race? If that occurs, perhaps people will be able to take back neighborhoods that now thrive on violence, or force their schools to provide better educations and encourage businesses and job opportunities to develop in the area.
That would put them where they need to be. -
There's nothing wrong with being proud of who you are and where you came from, but pride alone isn't going to do any good. The impoverished need to get out of poverty and that means getting an education. Blacks may have felt like second class citizens, but now that we have a black president, that should no longer be the case. Some will still have a victim mentality, but hopefully, far more will be inspired to better themselves.-
It should have been the case long before a black man was elected president. I wrote a post about that here randompoliticalthoughtsandnews.blogspot.com/2008/11/obama-victory-is-more-a...
Its this kind of black pride talk that I think divides more than anything. Sure be proud but there doesn't need to be a movement. I agree the key is education.
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Are Americans where they need to be? Why split the country more with this type of question?
"Black Pride" is a devisive calling card. It implies the whole American white/black thing is stuck close to square one.
Remember, Obama is half white...and that is a good thing as well.
"Pride" can often be a two-edged sword.-
So you are saying that oppression of Blacks has been done away with?
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In some jaded circles oppression may exist, but the circles are much fewer and much smaller. Blacks are not oppressed in a gross generalized way as you imply.
Even your question to my post has a devisive tone. -
In some jaded circles oppression may exist, but the circles are much fewer and much smaller. Blacks are not oppressed in a gross generalized way as you imply.
18% of blacks have a Bachelor's degree or higher. 24.3% live at the poverty level or below. 20.5% lack health insurance.
www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmcensus1.html
Those numbers suggest that something's up. If blacks aren't getting screwed, I'm at a loss for any other explanation.
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It was not meant to be divisive, I assure you.
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What about racial profiling and the shootings of Blacks by police in New York and other parts of the country?
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So, then, what are you really asking?
I know that one component of the perpetuation of racism is that some blacks want to say that "white America" is the oppressor. That does not bode well for whites that do not have a hateful bone in their body towards blacks. Why are they lumped with this "white America?"
Rev. Wright is a good example of being stuck in the past. Many of the current generation of whites never did oppress blacks and should not suffer the consequences of hateful diatribe. -
Proven racial profiling and "shootings of Blacks" should not be tolerated. And conversely, if a crime was commited and the criminals need to be ID'd then all description is relevant.
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Phoenix1962- See that problem is that you see everything in black or white, literally. You only see race and nothing more. The situation does not matter, cops shooting Blacks, UN and gay rights, you could probably find race in even the most mundane of subjects. I am not going to argue with you that there is no racism still in America because that is not true. Some people will just always be racist, though wrong, that is just the way it is. However you seem to be stretching the definition of what racism is and are making it so broad that in your argument it seems to have lost any meaning. I agree with TheBigRuski that in some circles that have been jaded oppression will exist, these groups will always see oppression and only see things in black and white no matter what is done. It is a very narrow view point which I believe actually takes away from what you are trying to accomplish.
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Does anyone think white privilege exist, or is that just a figment of the black imagination?
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White privilege is less prominent now as "class privilege" has taken it's place.
Those born to well to-do families with particular histories or lineage and power are more likely to be wealthy, have access to powers, money, and opportunities that poor(er) families do not.
The powerful wealthy families are no longer limited to just white people, and poor struggling families are no longer limited to just black people.
Where I Live specifically, the mix of ethnicity breaks even for rich, poor, powerful, meek. You gain "privilege" when or if you're part of a family that has a particular hold on the area. -
Your questions are "not meant to be divisive, I assure you."
Yeah, right. -
White privileged absolutely exists,a privilege they rarely recognize due to it being part of the construction of the society in which they live.
I'm not really sure of the race of most of the responders to these commenter, nor am I sure of your race but clearly that white people are respond to questions like these as if they know the answer,
when as a white person myself I would direct direct this question to those of races or ethnicities which have been marginalized due to white privilege.
To answer your original question, which I don't have time to do I leave this link to one of my favorite Caucasian writers on the subject.
Tim Wise
www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/in-search-post-racial-america -
@cooper
Oh my gosh! That guy is a brilliant writer. Thank you for the link to his blog.
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OK... I don't think anyone can say that racism is dead... I've seen it raise it's ugly head during the campaign when the white skin heads were arrested for allegedly planning to kill Pres Elect Obama. Having been the victim of gender discrimination myself (1st female voice on KTLK radio Denver in 77 mandated by an injunction because there were NO female voices on the air)I can tell you there still is a vast population of misogynists out there.
Big Ruski do you have any black friends? if you do, ask them about driving while being black! I think that studies show that black drivers, no matter what kind of car they drive, are stopped more often than white.
as to the privilege issue, the rich have always ruled in capitalistic societies. With money comes power and prestige.-
The questions posed by Phoenix1962 are not asking about whether racism still exists...they are basically asking should blacks (as a group) still hold whites (as a group) accountable for past and present injustices.
Yes, I have black friends and I am sensitive to the whole issue as well.
And in none of my responses have I indicated that racism is dead. -
@The bigruski
anntracy hit the nail on the head. She knows what I am talking about and it is not the past injustices of whites it is the subtle but strong racism against blacks and women that is very prevalent today. -
And it's enough to call for Black Pride....again?
Any educated person knows that racism still exists. However, how educated is it to stereotype white America as such?
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I am not stereotyping all of white America. Here is an interesting letter:
Dear Chairman Kennedy and Ranking Member Enzi:
I am writing to express my serious concerns about the nomination of David Palmer to become a Commissioner of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). Mr. Palmer’s record as Chief of the Employment Litigation Section of the Department of Justice raises serious questions about his competence and his commitment to civil rights.
The EEOC is the nation’s preeminent agency for enforcing Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Every EEOC Commissioner must be above reproach and have a history of achievement and commitment to the enforcement of anti-discrimination in employment.
On July 13, 2007, Mr. Palmer met with HELP Committee staff, including two representatives from my office. He articulated a commitment to civil rights and the enforcement of discrimination law. When pressed about his actual record, however, he was unable to reconcile his professed views with the disappointing record of his leadership at the Justice Department.
For example, Latinos filed over half of the nearly 300 charges of national origin discrimination that the EEOC referred to the Employment Litigation Section while Mr. Palmer led that section. Yet, during his tenure, he brought only one case on behalf of a Latino complainant. And while Mr. Palmer told HELP staff that he recognized that African Americans and Latinos suffer disproportionately from employment discrimination, he could not explain why the section filed almost as many cases alleging national origin or race discrimination against whites as against African Americans and Latinos combined.
Moreover, according to a July 23, 2007 letter from a group of former career managers, attorneys, and career professionals from the Department of Justice, Mr. Palmer treated colleagues with “disdain and contempt,” and there was “at least one complaint of discrimination or other improper activity . . . filed against Mr. Palmer during his tenure as Section Chief.”
Although I do not question the sincerity of Mr. Palmer’s statements to the HELP Committee staff, the facts about his section’s work are too serious to be ignored.
Given Mr. Palmer’s poor record and the declared concerns of his former colleagues regarding his fitness for this position, I hope you both will work to address these issues before Mr. Palmer is given a confirmation vote in Committee. I look forward to working with you to ensure that any nominee to the EEOC is dedicated to the mission of the Commission and has a track record that demonstrates his or her capacity for the job. Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Barack Obama
United States Senator -
Its not as clear as because someone is black equals this for them. Or because someone is white this is there standing. Education is the key and will always be the key. I think the problems we find in inner city schools is more about the structure of the society than it is about the color of the peoples skin. We need to put a real investment into the schools that are lacking support. I am not saying racism doesnt exist but I don't think it is as prevelant as it has been in our country in the past and black pride types of statements are not what we as a people need black white or whatever color. We need to say in order to be a stronger country we need education to be at the highest levels across the board.
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yes!
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@Phoenix1962: If you are talking about a return to the movement of the 1960s and 1970s, I don't see how that would be either feasible or desirable. To recreate that, one would have to pretend that the past four decades of gains and changes in our social, cultural, and political landscape had never happened. While discrimination and inequities still are very real in too many contexts, we are in new territory now, and that didn't just begin with Obama's election. No time to write in detail, but maybe this blog post about seismic generational shifts between Wright and Obama can make the point from another direction: markstoneman.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/barack-obama-jeremiah-wright-and-gene....
Googling black pride yields results that reflect changes too. Besides sites that recall the history, a lot comes up that is related to the LGBT community, for example, www.indianablackpride.com/mainpage.htm. That and immigration seem to be the newest civil rights issues. Would that we could also cast health care and educational reform in such terms. -
I was standing outside last night, having a smoke, looking around the neighborhood when this thread popped into my mind.
When I originally said I think it depends on the area - I meant that literally, not economically. I am talking about areas that are more progressive with regards to social status, equal rights, and so forth.
Where I live (the immediate neighborhood and surrounding towns/regions) is wildly diverse, ethnically, religiously, sexual orientation-aly, politically...Just in my neighborhood alone there are rich and poor, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Middle Eastern, interracial families (of black/white/Hispanic/Asian various mixtures), there are same sex couples, hetero couples, single parents and traditional stay home parent families. There are young, old, punk rock Anarchists, Christians, Pagans, Jews, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, atheists agnostics...there are mentally handicapped, disabled, yuo name it, we have it.
And that's just in my immediate neighborhood.
Where I live, no one is limited by their race - there are far more limitations placed on economic class, but not race. That's because I live in a fairly progressive area. We have interracial families here who married before it was even legal to do so in many parts of the country. And they were accepted here.
It just, I think, makes a difference when you have a society that focuses on progress, rather than "racial pride" movements.
Just a thought.-
Having a smoke? No wonder you want universal health care!
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Oh sweetie, my smoking habit has nothing to do with my insurance problems
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Anok, haven't you heard? People who don't smoke have no medical problems, so insurance and affordable health care is no longer an issue. Really...it's great. Your bones don't break, you aren't born with any kind of chronic problems...it's like magic.
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Really! That's wonderful news!
Does this mean my bad ankle just hurts psychologically? -
@Anok It was a joke. But my point being in the joke is the cost of health care would be much less if people took care of themselves.
@MadameX Is that what I said? Don't think so but everyones health care would be more affordable if people weren't smoking or overweight I don't think I need to explain that. So if you don't think they are related you keep the blinders on. -
Actually, there are plenty of people who smoke who don't cost the insurance industry any more money than people who don't smoke.
Yes, it would be great if people took care of themselves, but barring the accidents and unpreventable health problems, the medical industry doesn't want you to take care of yourself, lest they go out of business
And anyway, that isn't what makes insurance premiums so high. -
Anok, smoking will require health care resources. It might not be today but unless a smoker dies of something else first, those health care resources will be required. Same for poor eating habits. These may be not the only reason for high health care but they are major contributors.
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They're really not major contributors though. As smoker who has no smoking related illnesses or problems, from a family of smokers with no smoking related illnesses - we are not costing the medical industry anything because of our smoking.
Frivolous medical lawsuits, serious medical lawsuits, malpractice, people without insurance waiting until an illness is beyond serious because they can't afford preventative care, catastrophic illnesses, long term medical care for the elderly...THOSE are major contributors. -
Also good points. My point is that you don't know if your smoking is going to require significant health care resources. Statistics say it will and no one will know until it is too late to do something about it. statistics say it will be a major contributor. Maybe not for each and every smoker but the majority of them and it is because they smoked.
Now if we could get the elderly to all become smokers we wouldn't need so much long term medical care. -
Smoking causes cancer. You're not setting a very good example for your kid, Anok.
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LOL...
You know though, disability costs a lot of money - you don't know if the job you're doing will injure you for life, or diabetes can hit, breast cancer and many, many forms of cancer not related to smoking can hit because of lifestyle, genetics or both. Obesity, alcohol, chocolate, hormone laden foods...
We are now a sick society no matter how you slice and dice it. Smoking, I think, is the least of our worries -
How're you holding up in the ice storm? They just said on the news it's the worst ice storm in 20 years.
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It completely missed us I was surprised, actually, to see the news this morning and all the damage that was done all around us, but not to us.
We kinda live in a weird little pocket weather wise. If there's a great big storm headed our way, we get nothing. When there's nothing going on anywhere else, we've got a storm -
Kind of like saying arsnic is bad so I'm going to eat as much cynide as I want.
This is the end of my portion of thread creep but according to www.wmitchell.edu/TobaccoLaw/resources/Costs.pdf
smoking causes 6 to 9 percent of healthcare costs. Smoking is worrying enough. -
OK, thank you for your lecture.
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