Political Discussions
Iranian support video… some aren’t afraid to speak out for American values
Posted by anticsrocks • 6/30/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: bonjovi, don was, iran, madadian, obama, regime, sambora, stand by me
I debated on what to call this piece. In the end, I went with the title that accompanied the video as I found it on floppingaces.net.
www.floppingaces.net/category/middle-east/iran/
This is a wonderful thing that is being done. Some will say, I am sure, that it is merely symbolic. But it is considerably more than our President has done.
User Comments
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Cheers to the brave Iranian people seeking a more just and free society. -
Interesting...several people have viewed this thread, but only one comment.
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That's because nobody has figured out how Obama can benefit from it yet.... -
lol
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Or they found the thread title so absurd as to be speechless. "American values"? Is it really about us?
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mark, I only titled the piece as I found it. I thought it was a very nice gesture on Bon Jovi and Madadian's part. They aren't trying to profit from it, sell it, etc... It is symbolic to the Iranian people that we are standing by them. Well some of us, anyway.
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There we go with the personal attacks, this time in the passive-aggressive mode and predicated on the assumption that your way is the only way to show support. Bravo.
And now you know why I initially avoided this thread.
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Bon Jovi sucks.-
The clearly he must be one of those evil Republicans eh, sati?
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I hate my computer. I can't comment, because my computer has decided that I am not allowed to watch videos right now.
Could someone tell me what happened?-
Have no idea hon. But go to floppingaces.com and try the link directly.
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I got some weird search engine from that link? Pretty blonde girl, though.
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This post was left intentionally blank.
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And quite possibly some gray matter...
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It doesn't work for me.
But it is clear, at least to me, having talked to a quite a few people who are Iranian and having read some of the more measured less emotional postings about IRAN, that the new gen opposition in Iran understands some things which most Americans do not.
They understand that anything more than carefully thought out responses from Obama would be dangerous.They are politically more sophisticated than a lot of people here, they understand clearly that US meddling would be the proverbial kiss of death to their cause.
We the people can do what we want but our president must not do or say anything that is not most painstakingly considered.-
You might have a point about Obama refusing to meddle if he hadn't commented so quickly about Honduras and if he would stop "meddling" in Israel's affairs. He picks and chooses when he wants to "meddle."
I agree with your point that what any US President does needs to be carefully measured out. -
Analogies only work if all variables are the same. They aren't in your two cases. Just for starters: We have a special relationship with Israel. We also have pretty clear interests in Central America. And in each case, opinions by Obama won't be used against any opposition, unlike in Iran, where foreign opinions have traditionally helped to rally people around the regime.
Regarding Honduras, isn't interesting that the American political establishment (left, center, and right), is on the same side as Chavez on this one, at least in terms of acceptability of the coup, if not in terms of Chavez's flamboyant rhetoric of intervention?
Meanwhile, I haven't clicked your links. I find it absurd that we should speak out for "American" values. Obama speaking out for internationally recognized human rights is all that is necessary, and he's done this in an admirably measured way. More in this other thread: www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/iran-1 -
You ever get nose bleeds being up on that high horse, mark?
Maybe it is the "intellectual" response to say that Obama doesn't vacillate from one position to another. But the fact is, that he wants it both ways. He is opposed to a dictator being unseated in Honduras and can't get to the podium quick enough. Yet people are dying in Iran and what does he do? Nothing, at least not until the polls indicated he should.
I don't want him to be reckless with what he says and how he responds, but days and days of silence? Come on, even you should want better than that from your leader. And I might be able to stomach his silence, had he not, when he did first speak, say that he recognized the sovereignty of the Iranian government all the while that they were murdering their own people. All that does is to embolden the Mullahs and give them credibility. He will talk with them unconditionally, but he won't make a stand for the freedom of people worldwide.
Yeah, just a silly analogy. -
Yet another personal attack. Focus your attack on my ideas, not my person. That's one thing key difference between legitimate political discourse and personal attacks. The latter, by the way, are forbidden here.
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mark, get over yourself really. I ask you this, tell me exactly what Obama's foreign policy is?
Can you? -
I've already said on the other thread what I think Obama is doing in Iran.
You want a summary of his foreign policy elsewhere? That would be a rather tall order, for as near as I can tell, he doesn't have a one-size-fits-all recipe, but rather he approaches various countries and regions according to a mixture of what is there, our interests, how those interests relate to those of other nations (whose own actions can affect our interests), what is possible to achieve, and so on. There is no simple Cold War or War on Terror metaphor to help us along this time. Jimmy Carter's strictly values-based foreign policy won't cut it either. The world is more complex than that. -
So in other words, he makes it up as he goes along? He has no set policy or code of conduct that he can rely on for his value judgments?
It all depends on what is "in it for him," loosely speaking. -
You make it sound purely reactive, which is not the case. He seems to be pretty proactive in many regions, albeit not in a particularly arrogant way.
Regarding values, have you ever studied Machiavelli, The Prince? Ever thought in terms of reason of state? -
mark, if you had clicked on the link I posted you would have seen that it was a music video done by Bon Jovi and Andy Madadian, an Iranian singer. They recorded a duet on the Ben E. King classic, Stand By Me. They both sing the first verse in Farsi and then the rest in English. The post goes on to say that they are not selling the song, but that they recorded it so that Iranians could have it as a free download to let them know that the American people are standing with them. Hence the choice of the song.
Why it was posted with the title it was, I have no idea. I merely posted the same title as it had when I stumbled upon it. I agree that if you want to narrow it down to being or not being about American Values, then an argument could be made either way. Maybe the author meant the American Value of believing in freedom and liberty, I don't know and I don't want to speak for the author of the piece. I just wanted to share it with the BC community. -
Okay then. Thanks for clarifying. The video is called "Stand by Me," and it is sung in Farsi and English. The poster co-opted it for other purposes, as you did here with the last sentence of your OP. Is it really about the US and Obama?
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I believe in some sense it is. We think of American Presidents as being able to stand up for freedom and people wanting freedom no matter where they might live. He dropped the ball on this one. It is easy for us to say he should be careful, not "meddle," etc... because we know freedom and liberty personally. Very few of us have lived under anything close to the conditions that the Iranian people have had to live under for the past several decades. When they struggle to assert their wishes for freedom, they are literally taking their own lives in their hands. The rest of the world looks to America in this regard. For Obama to have remained silent like he did was a major mistake.
I think it goes to his ideology and the way he was raised.
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Remember though we have a distinct relationship with Costa Rica which in some ways plays into the Honduras situation. We are Costa Rica's army. The American speaking out against the coup in Honduras does not on any level hold the same implications as us no speaking out in the case of a revolution we see as harmful to many of the countries in Latin America we have deal with..many deals on a variety of policy. Iran we do not even have diplomatic relations with.
I do wish Iran the best, and follow the situation daily, and think the world needs to stay on top of it, but at this exact time I think Obama needs to stay aware but away, for our own good, and for good and credibility of the opposition.-
Yep. Context matters. I do wish people would consider it when making analogies.
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What exactly are "American values?" Fair elections? It would be hypocritical of anyone who wasn't appalled by what happened in our 2000 election to condemn Iran. Humanitarian treatment of people? Well, we tortured prisoners with little evidence some of them had done anything wrong. So we don't have a leg to stand on there.
As far as Obama not doing anything, he's done exactly the right thing. Right-wingers will complain no matter what he does.-
*boohoo* get sati the crying towel again. *boohoo* the 2000 election was stolen!!
And you will continue to support Obama as he takes away your liberties one by one...
"What exactly are "American values?"
It would figure that you can't tell us what American values are. But had the question been, "What are the pros of a socialist society?" You could have droned on for hours and hours.
Very telling. -
*boohoo* get sati the crying towel again. *boohoo* the 2000 election was stolen!!
Our actions have consequences. Because of things like our election problems and treatment of prisoners, we can no longer hold the moral high ground. -
Actually, AR wants us to hold the moral high ground on Iran and Honduras, but this desire seems to dissipate when it comes to GOP policies of invasion and torture. I don't want to say it is purposeful hypocrisy, but the contradiction is striking.
I myself would prefer to think in terms of what is good for our power and security. Torture and invading countries under false pretenses are not. -
"Because of things like our election problems and treatment of prisoners, we can no longer hold the moral high ground."
Ever?
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It has to be said that it is unfair for Flopping Aces to hijack this video and re brand it as support for American Values.
The video is in support for the struggle for proper democratic process in Iran and it's makers make no claims for "American Values".
Events in Iran are widely misunderstood. The Iranian people are angry because their election was gerrymandered. The "defeated" candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi is a reformer however to describe him or think of him as having anything like American Values is extremely wide of the mark.
Lets not forget. Mr Mousavi defended the taking and holding of American hostages by Iranian militants in 1979 as serving the revolution's purpose and was described by The Economist in 1988 as being a "firm radical".-
exactly
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