Political Discussions
Ireland: Shocking Child Abuse - Roman Catholic Church
Posted by timethief • 5/25/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: child-abuse, Ireland, roman-catholic--church, sexual-abuse
- Thousands of children were worked like slaves without proper food or clothing. Their teachers and older children physically, emotionally and sexually abused them. The most vulnerable were subject to the most vile attacks.
This does not describe some Dickenesque poorhouse or African labor camp. This describes religious schools in Ireland in the 20th century, run by the Roman Catholic Church.
A nine-year investigation by Ireland’s Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse published its final results Wednesday. The damning five-volume report took into account evidence from 2,500 individuals who suffered abuse in reformatories, industrial schools and orphanages run by Catholic religious orders.
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Ireland’s commission paints a horrible picture of these schools. “Sexual abuse was endemic in boys’ institutions,” states the Executive Summary of the report.
... What’s worse, this abuse took place with the full knowledge and backing of the Irish government and the Vatican.
The whole time, the Catholic Church and the religious orders knew exactly what was going on, but they covered it up.
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From: www.bishop-accountability.org/news2009/05_06/2009_05_21_Palmer_IrelandShock...
Discussion Question:
Do you believe what follows is an accurate statement?
"The Vatican doesn’t care about the children. It just cares about the reputation of the Roman Catholic Church."
If so, why?
If not, why not?
User Comments
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It's terrible. I dont know what else to say. -
"The Vatican doesn’t care about the children. It just cares about the reputation of the Roman Catholic Church."
This is true. Church history has shown that the church doctrine is only a money-making institution. They are willing to condemn their own, only when their status as moneychangers is threatened
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I hate to say this but its true, i dont believe the Vatican cares about the children. They have always protected the church and priests over the children. Why would they constantly cover up these horrendous acts?
But i also believe they dont care about the reputation of the Catholic church either, if they did they would expose the evil and the perpetrators so that the whole world will know they stand for truth and justice. But they dont, do they? -
This is not surprising at all to me.
The Vatican has to protect itself and it's affiliates, that is why it is so slow to recognize and stop abuses. I think we need to recognize the Catholic church for what it is: the world's largest and most powerful corporation. If you look at it in a corporate context rather than religious context, this kind of abuse becomes less surprising. Any corporate institution that practices with impunity will commit abuses of this nature.
I remember when I read about Magdalene asylums years ago. I was horrified to hear of young women forcibly imprisoned for their lifetimes as recently as 1994. Rape victims, unwed mothers, molestation victims, the mentally and physically disabled locked up in nunneries by vindictive and cruel relatives.-
just goes to show how inadequate the First Estate is at providing social services
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How institutions can perish
- "PUBLIC OUTRAGE over the picture of brutality, sadism, sexual abuse and repression in Ireland’s industrial schools and reformatories run by Catholic congregations is intensifying following last week’s remarkable report by the Ryan commission.
It is stoked by the flat refusal of the 18 orders involved to reopen the compensation and indemnity agreement they signed with the government in 2002. Their clumsy and self-serving efforts to protect their own interests are rapidly alienating whatever limited support they have. They have failed to see the central importance of saying sorry to the victims and taking the full consequences of their actions and responsibilities. This is how institutions perish.
The gross imbalance which leaves the State paying 90 per cent of the €1.3 billion settlements is indefensible. ...
That issue has now been put fully into the public sphere for thorough debate and political decision. Most educational and many health and welfare facilities in this State are run by religious organisations, despite the sharp decline in their numbers and the steady transfer of control to lay trusts. Are we not still in thrall to these institutions to run such services? ... "
www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0527/1224247497170.html
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a good reason to keep church and state separate
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Yes I agree totally. When I thought it through craefully I can come to no other conclusion. And I base my answer on personal experience of sexual abuse by members of the church.
Truly, if all the stories of sexual abuse in the church were released and spoken of, the church would collapse over night. The cover up is much more wide spread than people care to realise.
This exposure in Ireland will now have a domino effect globally, as many people start to realise what happened to them as children was not acceptable or excusable.( well those that have not suicided, are suffering from drug or alcohol abuse or mental illness)
The church (Catholic) has ther own system in place to deal with sexual abuse in the church. This in reality, is a system to cover up and hide from the public the pedophilea which was rampant in the church. The high school (Marist Brothers) I went to had a pedophile and so did the church, two different locations within 5 miles of each other, two different chld abusers.
I commend those who have come forward, and I look forward to see the rest of the globe light up and say 'What has been done by members of the church is a crime against humainty'. You cannot give Mass, hear confesion, preach Jesus and then sodomise children.
As a victim of child sexual abuse by members of the church in Australia, I will patiently watch the walls of this ugly institution fall down. There were ( I can't speak of the present) networks in the church for sharing children with other members. Where the problem comes in, is the inaction by those that were aware of the abuse and turned a blind eye. This is inexcusable, and what is required is to all those that are aware to incidents to come forward and speak up. It is not really a choice, it is an obligation.
There was one particular bishop who was sent to Philadelphia to Clean Up after there were over 500 case of abuse in one diocese, this in itself says a lot. He was chosen because of his skills dealing with this type of issue. These are not issues within the church, the ,church is a part of the human community anbd needs to function as part of it and be accountable. It should under no circumstances function as a law to itself.
It is a political / financial monster which is on its last legs, I am very confident of that.
If it cared about children, it would act with integrity-
The Christan Brothers were also child abusers in Canada, Australia and in the USA. For decades the church simply transferred the pedophile priests to different jurisdictions where they molested hundreds of more children. The inquiries in Canada produced stats that indicated each of these pedophiles on average left a string of approximately 300 sexually abused children in their wake. Worse still the Vatican was undeniably aware of the goings on and the current pope Ratzinger had full knowledge too. The church has made no reparations for hiding these criminals from the long arm of the law and for allowing even more children to be abused.
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Institutional Christianity is an incredibly permissive religion. The notion that one has a free pass to commit any abuse of other individuals without fear of divine reprisal due to limitless grace is a poor doctrine to entrust the care of the vulnerable.
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That's paternalism plus religion for you. They practice forgiveness, don't you know? The pedophiles were not brought before the law to stand trial for their crimes. They weren't ex-communicated They were forgiven by their Bishops who covered up for them and transferred the to other parishes.
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Isn't it comforting to know that the U.S. President is committed to "faith-based" intiatives
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Frankly "no". I believe in the separation of church and state. I further believe that all religious organizations should be classified with all non-profits and that the portion of their funds that is not spent on charitable works ought to be taxed.
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I agree with you, TT, but it's not going to happen any time soon. The religious-right has too much power. -
AND the religious left...
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You think so? The religious left doesn't seem to have much money or power. All these mega-churches seem to be right-wing.
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Really? Did you miss Obama's National Prayer Breakfast with Tony Blair?
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/05/obama-administration-faith-based-praye...
www.kandle.ie/2009/02/10/national-prayer-beakfast-tony-blairs-address/
"From without, religious faith is assailed by an increasingly aggressive secularism, which derides faith as contrary to reason and defines faith by conflict. Thus do the extreme believers and the aggressive non-believers come together in unholy alliance."--Tony Blair, NPB Keynote
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The horrible reality is that people who want to abuse children deliberately target and infiltrate organisations which work in child care.
In the past all organisations were particularly vulnerable to infiltration by child abusers. This includes church, state and charitable organisations. Historically child abusers were able to "get away" with it because children were not believed and had no opportunity to speak out.
So Polybore does not agree with the discussion question. Because today like all institutions the RC church does recognise that it is vulnerable to infiltration by child abusers.
If you re framed the question in time to when theses abuses took place then polybore would agree. But fortunately things have moved on from then.-
Poly bore. I disagree
I'm currently having conversations with the Professional Standards (Catholic Cover Up Committee). They have not moved on, and presently I'm trying to work out whether to take a case to larger Organisations such as Amnesty or the UN to deal with the cover up which has happened in Australia.
The Catholic Church is worse than ever and are doing their darndest to clean up, not to clean up the pedophiles but to hide what has gone on. The following document is published from the home base of the church that I grew up at and have made complaints about. They've sent an archbishop in to clean up after 500 sexual abuse cases in the one diocese.
All the boys I grew up with, would find this appalling. They should just close down the churches
www.capuchinfriars.org.au/news/PDF/Capuchin-News-01Aug03b.pdf
Michael Higgins Story - read and vomit
www.bishop-accountability.org/news/1993_12_02_Mydans_SexVibes.htm
In Australia they got away with it... for now
24 Pedophile Priets
www.opednews.com/articles/When-24-pedophile-priests-by-Kay-Ebeling-080924-4...
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Oh how easy it is to condemn an entire group of people because of the terrible things a few have caused. We quickly forget the vast amount of good that has been done by priests, clergy and laity within the Catholic Church for those who are in need, hungry, abandoned, neglected, educationally challenged. We forget about the social justice efforts inaugurated and still carried on by a great number of good Catholics who faithfully follow the teachings of Christ. Yes, condemn those who have caused condemnation but recognise the good done by those who are good. Should all be condemned for the actions of a few.-
Humm, I suppose that is why Cardinal Bernard F. Law who resigned for his part in the cover up of the Boston pedophile priest scandal deserves to live comfortably in the Vatican, as he was doing the last time I wrote about this several years back.
It's not so much that people miss what good is done, but that what good they do is seriously counter pointed by the hideous willingness to cover-up the horrific acts of their own. Hypocrisy is one thing, hypocrisy in the face of such crimes perpetrated n children, is another.
That I work for several causes means nothing if I cover up horrific acts of my friends or neighbors, and the Roman Catholic Church is complicit, time and again, in these cover-ups.
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