Political Discussions
Israel Aggression
Posted by Husendro • 1/09/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: israel aggression
How do you think about Israel's aggression? please give your opinion..
User Comments
-
Justifiable self defense. -
Is not it self-defense is exaggerated? and not the right target?
-
Israel tried mild response to rocket attacks for the last 8 years. People living in towns in the southern part of Israel got used to living 15 seconds away from a shelter. Every day, they were several attacks by Hamas, while Israel only warned Hamas, or just made a pinpoint attack against the launching sites. Hamas interpreted the restrain as weakness and intensified the attacks over the years. About 1 week prior to the operation, it reached about 30 rockets a day. Everybody, even the most peace loving politicians, had enough. Diplomacy failed. Mild response failed. Exaggerated response is the only option left.
-
-
Why did you start a new thread when there are already a few running? You can find many opinions in threads at the top of the first page. just open your eyes and look. -
Israel Aggression? Your kidding right? Hamas specifically targets civilians, while Israel drops leaflets, makes announcements and calls Palestinians on the phone to leave areas they plan to to attack. The very areas Hamas has stored or fired rockets from. You sir, need to get a clue. This conflict will never end as long as one group (HAMAS) values death more then life. -
more than 800 people dead Palestine, over 150 people, among 150 children ... 2 schools of bombing, humanitarian workers be employed, whether the action was justified mix? whether it is self-defense that can be justified. please use our conscience.
-
The Palestinians have two options:
1. Take responsibility for their own country and get rid of the Hamas terrorists
2. Allow Israel to get rid of the Hamas terrorists
With option #2, they have no room to complain if there is excessive collateral damage. -
With option #2, they have no room to complain if there is excessive collateral damage.
Sati, I can't believe this is coming from you. That's the kind of sentiment I heard about civilian causalities in Iraq and Afghanistan while we were going after terrorists. (Still, are).
Of course they have a right to complain about "excessive collateral damage". Has it occurred to you that they might not be able to rid themselves of the Hamas and extremists? That in fact, they might opt for number two because they want them out, but can't do it themselves?
Why would it be OK to kill excessive numbers of civilians because they couldn't do something themselves?
Should excess numbers of Americans be killed because we couldn't impeach Bush? Should excessive numbers of Iraqis have been killed because they couldn't dethrone Hussein? Should excessive numbers of civilians in any kind of similar situation be killed because they didn't act like a military and stage a coup?
Have you secretly gone psycho-conservative on us? -
Anok, you're looking at the different situations with a Bush mentality: that all conflicts are exactly the same with the same players and the same history.
The fact is, they're all completely different.
The U.S. is partially responsible for the situation in Afghanistan. After we armed them to ward off Russia, we simply hung them out to dry. We should have put effort into rebuilding the country. Instead, we left them with arms that led to the terrorist regime that eventually resulted in the 9/11 attack.
In Iraq, we invaded a sovereign nation that was not a threat. The Bush administration should be tried for the murder of 10s if not 100s of thousands of deaths of innocent civilians.
The Israel/Palestine conflict has been going on for almost a century. They've been fighting each other even before Israel fought for and won it's independence. Israel has been fending off terrorist activity from Palestinians for some 60 years now and there's no end in sight. At what point do you say "enough?" -
With your logic the spiral is only fed. A political settlement is necessary. If Israeli actions promote that, good, though their rhetoric about permanent solution to the rockets suggests short-sightedness, since military actions alone won't achieve that.
At what point do you say "enough" is a question I'm hoping sensible people on both sides ask, so that a real peace can be achieved at some time. Never say never. Seemingly intractable situations have been resolved elsewhere, so maybe it can happen here. But not with this rhetoric of inevitability, and not with these historical grudges. -
A political settlement is necessary.
What political settlement? The Palestinian Authority controls Gaza. There are no Israeli settlements there. So what political settlement are you suggesting? -
Sati - the idea, the sentiment is the same.
At what point do you say enough to the killing of children? Of COURSE civilians have a right to complain about the deaths of their children and loved ones.
My God, I was watching the news today where they were interviewing the children in Gaza, they were absolutely terrified. Babies, little children. Out of the 800 deaths so far, 1/3 are children and babies.
ONE THIRD. That's ridiculous. -
ONE THIRD. That's bullshit. What news program where you watching?
-
It was on my local news tonight. They haven't updated their site yet, though.
-
@Sati: To borrow from Clausewitz, war only makes sense as an extension of politics. I have yet to hear a constructive political thought from you on this matter. All I hear is a denial of the legitimacy of Palestinian self-determination and a desire to put an end to radicalism through violence. That is not politics. That is nihilism.
-
-
How can any one justify war by killing innocent children. How many of the Hamas fighters have the Israeli's killed so far ?
How many children have they killed so far ?
Are the children Hamas fighters ? -
I was hoping I could skip this as my ass is ice cold still from snowboarding all day but no I can't.
sati:
"1. Take responsibility for their own country and get rid of the Hamas terrorists"
So the 4 million Palestinian refugees - refugees spread from Gaza throughout Lebanon, Eygypt, Syria and so forth — are to take responsibility when they are still refugees - and come to think of it why are they still refugees anyway? Guess we have to go back to what 1948...
Both, yes both Israeli and Hamas mask their political goals in pro-civilian rhetoric. The slaughter is unconscionable, and the method of it may have put peace in the Middle East out of reach for decades, if not centuries.
The civilian has become a weapon in the propaganda war between Israel and Palestine, I think it fair to say it's pretty nervy for any one of us to suggest to a population reduced to catastrophe that they settle on down and negotiate with those who are murdering them, and using them for political goals/gains.
Professor Avi Shlaim, an Oxford professor of international relations who served in the Israeli army writing in The Guardian, on 7 January 2009, www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine
"The declared aim of the war is to weaken Hamas and to intensify the pressure until its leaders agree to a new ceasefire on Israel’s terms. The undeclared aim is to ensure that the Palestinians in Gaza are seen by the world simply as a humanitarian problem and thus to derail their struggle for independence and statehood."
"This brief review of Israel's record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practices terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfills all of these three criteria;"
Israeli violates international humanitarian law with what they are doing - despite what some noted war theorists would have you believe as they sit in their offices writing countless defensive essays on Israeli's action. -
Here's a good article describing what Israel is up against:
www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/world/middleeast/11hamas.html?_r=1&hp-
Sure. But Hamas' ruthlessness does not make Israel's policy a wise one.
-
They don't have many other options. Israel is going to take control of Gaza so they can police it and get rid of Hamas.
What the Israelis need to do is rebuild the economy of Gaza while they're in there. Hamas gained power in part because they provided services to the Palestinian people. Should Israel create jobs and infrastructure, they have a better chance of winning the hearts and minds of the Palestinians. -
Since 1948 Israeli has destroyed the lives of marginalized millions of Palestinians.
sati: Israeli has not bound itself to the resolution made by the general assembly in 1948 - resolution 194. If it had this might never have a occurred.
If Israeli had wanted to do what you suggest("Should Israel create jobs and infrastructure") they would have started with just compensation years ago, they could have done it in 1948, it not 1948 or at any time subsequent to that.
But they ignored the resolution and compounding the problem and marginalizing more and more Palestinians over the last 60 years. -
The Arabs rejected the recommendations put forth by the U.N., so why should Israel be bound by them?
-
That is my point really, it is not the Palestinian people, the ones who are getting bombed and have been marginalized throughout the last 60 years, that refuted the resolution, it is the playing politics by many sides. Israeli is not the only one to blame, but they should not pretend they are the only victims here, (they have victimized themselves and others - greatly, and in the name of politics) they are powerful, the Palestinian people - the 4 million marginalized Palestinian people displaced, are not.
You are the one suggested Israeli should "create jobs and infrastructure" they have had those option and much more for 60 years if they haven't done it by now it is clear there politics is somehow preventing this and by that making things much worse not only for themselves but for people who they have oppressed in the name of politics. -
So what do you suggest, Cooper? Israel has actually put a lot of money towards rebuilding the infrastructure of Palestine. I'm not sure how much has gone to Gaza, though. It may be mostly in the West Bank.
-
-
Over the top describes it best. I understand they want the rocket attacks to stop but the bombing raids just killed a lot of people just trying to get on with their own lives. They should have just done it by land & went after the people using the rockets instead. It should'nt have been too difficult. I thought Israeli intelligence was supposed to be pretty good. Read more about my thoughts on it on my Aid Renegade blog. -
Urban guerrilla fighting is the most difficult type of war. -
@Sati: To borrow from Clausewitz, war only makes sense as an extension of politics. I have yet to hear a constructive political thought from you on this matter. All I hear is a denial of the legitimacy of Palestinian self-determination and a desire to put an end to radicalism through violence. That is not politics. That is nihilism.
If national security is an extension of politics then Clausewitz was right, but all wars are not equal. Some wars are for domination, some for natural resources, some for independence, some for policy change, and some for security.
Our war in Afghanistan is for security as was the justification for the war in Iraq, although that turned out to be a lie. The wars Israel has been engaged in over the years have all been for security (from their perspective, anyway).
Hezbollah and Hamas want to terrorize and ultimately destroy Israel. The PLO Charter called for the destruction of Israel. There is no political solution when the other side wants you wiped off the map. Sometimes all you have is brute force.-
Here's an article about the politics of the Palestine problem:
www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/world/middleeast/12egypt.html?_r=1&hp
There's a chance that with the new leadership here in the U.S., more diplomacy may lead to a less volatile Iran and a better chance for peace.
-
-
It is justified to get rid of the terrorist who keep firing rockets into Israel. As far as the civilian deaths easy answer to that don't elect terrorist organizations to rule your land and you will be justified in complaining about civlian deaths otherwise tough shit!!! -
Here is a good article about the latest round of fighting.
www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929369&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticl...
Enjoy! -
Sure sat there is lots of significant analysis of the problem, reporters thoughts and academics thoughts . Any one of us can find an essay somewhere to justify our beliefs in this case, but the truth is I know what is right for me and you know what is right according to your beliefs.
I think Israeli is doing exactly what Iran wants it to do.
As for monkeysuit, when you elect and reelect, hoping each time something will change and it never does, it is not the fault of a marginalized powerless people at this point in time.
We, in my country, fail in our own way when our leaders fail us, and most of us are well fed, educated and have food to fill our belly and access to more luxury than most of the world knows - who is to say who we'd be electing were our situation the same as that of the Palestinian people. It is ridiculous to expect people who live one way to act the way we think we'd act in the same situation.
We can read countess essays by those on both sides of the issue from war theorists to former soldiers. Who is to say which is right or wrong - certainly not us.-
Don't elect terrorist its not really that hard.
-
Where do you live, Cooper?
-
This is how southern Israel is like for the last 8 years:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OlVa782ZYU
What would YOU do when this happens several times every day and proportional response simply doesn't stop it?
-
-
There is aggression on both sides, lets be real. This is not the time to sit around and point fingers. We must figure out a way to move forward, yes Israel is tearing apart Gaza, but Hamas is bringing this fight to the civilans, how cowardly is that? There is no other way to fight such people if war is the choice. I do not agree with such a policy, but that is the way the ball has fallen. -
My Friends, does not intend to demean the people of Israel and HAMAS, the focus turned my attention is why many people of Palestine in more people 1000 which killed , half are women and children, humanitarian workers also shooted, the press workers were killed, phosphorus bombs used. .. That's why I focus on the government of Israel do? where the heart of Israel's Gov, espec. Simon, Ehud and Livni.. please stop all the slaughter of civilians, and all parties that are not guilty..please stop this aggression!!!..this aggression is the only cause that is not safe for all people in the world, harassment of human rights and democracy, and cause more economic disruption worse. I hope not things are expected of this government israel
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
