Political Discussions
Israel set for a move to the right.
Posted by polybore • 2/10/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: elections, Israel, yisrael beiteinu
With the polls showing that there little between the two main parties it looks like Avigdor Lieberman's far right party Yisrael Beiteinu (Israel my Home) is going to be in a strong position when it comes to forming a coalition government.
Lieberman advocates "reducing the number of Arabs who are Israeli citizens"
Can't be the way forward for Israel can it?
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/7866954.stm
User Comments
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Probably one of the least popular ones internationally... But sure it's a way forward.
Apparently they have decided that the current situation is not manageable, or productive.
This is a democratic election. It's hard to be sitting half a world away and make reasonable judgements on the situation. Those that are voting know their situation better than we ever can.-
Not so sure I can agree with you csi. Israel's proportional representation system has resulted in a whole bunch of coalition governments which fold at crucial times. Israel has poor continuity in governance.
Worst of all having been on a war footing for so long has promoted anti Arab racism and created a militaristic outlook. At the moment Israel does not seem to have the diplomatic skill associated with your typical Western State.
Although I may sit some considerable distance from there, the consequences of continued diplomatic failure have the potential to be felt throughout the world, so I sit uncomfortably.
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I'm wondering if Palestinian opinion in Gaza and the West Bank have taken an equally awful swing towards hardline stances. Be that as it may, the rhetoric of this Russian candidate Lieberman is truly disturbing. Singling out citizens for oaths of loyalty is just pouring fuel on the flames of xenophobia. He won't win, but if he's the one to make the coalition, yikes.-
They voted for Hamas. Who want to destroy Israel..
How much more hardline do you want? -
I used the phrase "Palestinian opinion" deliberately, because it is not synonymous with Hamas. The dominance of Hamas was not unquestioned, at least not before the war. Presumably they can do either worse or better at the polls next time round.
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The problem is the Arab population in Israel is growing at a much greater rate than the Jewish population and soon they will be the majority, which will make for a very difficult situation. Now is the time to do something about it before Israel ceases to exist.-
But what to do? Disenfranchise a huge segment of the population along the lines of the old Apartheid regime in South Africa? Or figure out a way to integrate this population? Presumably a settlement of the larger Palestinian issue will have to be a part of the latter choice. Besides opening a way to improvement with the Arab population in Israel, maybe the country could once again become an attractive destination for immigration.
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Persona non grata.
The arab world is always talking about how they look out for eachother. Let them take them.
That would be completely forgetting that none of the arab states want the palestinians either. They are the red-headed stepchildren to everyone. -
It sounds like you're proposing ethnic cleansing. That's no better than Sati's apparent Apartheid solution. Egads.
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satijournal. What exactly do you propose as a solution to the Arab population problem?
Why do the Arabs have to leave? There is no justification for this. -
[deleted, because previous comment was edited to make my comment irrelevant]
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Sorry Mark, after I had posted it I recognised an unfortunate turn of phrase which was inappropriate so I removed it.
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I don't know what the solution is but something needs to be done. Maybe move them to the West Bank.
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I propose that they put the thumbscrews on them for real.
If they keep fighting, redo the invasion until it stops. If that doesn't work. Tell egypt to open its borders, give them 72 hours warning and run dozers north to south.
This is not a situation that has proven manageable with diplomacy. The palestinian population voted for the least likely organization to use diplomacy to represent them. I think that speaks volumes. -
I've proposed bulldozing Gaza into the Mediterranean in the past, but the environmental damage would be considerable.
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Just a few comments…
It is true that since Hamas took over the Gaza Strip, and especially since operation Cast Lead, the Israeli public shifted more to the right, but let’s not forget that about two years ago, all the platforms of the major parties moved more to the left (regarding Israel’s policy in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank). Although the Liqud party is categorized as right, Kadima as center, and Avoda (Labor) as left, if you think of the classical definition of Israeli right and left wing parties, I think the more appropriate categorization would be center-right, center-left, and left, with no major party in what was once the classical Israeli right wing except Yisrael Beiteinu (which should be translated as “Israel OUR home”, not “Israel MY home”).
The official results will be published soon, until then – these are all just very good polls, but...
Although it looks like it’s going to be the third largest party, it got only about 12% of the valid votes, that’s only about 8% of the general population, so let’s all just calm down (and not forget that it is the only party representing the Russian immigrants which is a huge portion of the Israeli public).
The main attraction was his “No loyalty - no citizenship” campaign. It was emphasized by his move to disqualify two Arab-Israeli parties after their leaders spoke against Israel during operation Cast Lead. Just that you know, these two parties that he tried to disqualify, do have “problematic” platforms aimed at abolishing Israel as a democratic Jewish state, which is a key part of the Israeli Declaration of Independence, and their elected leaders sometimes walk a thin line with statements and actions that can be considered as helping the enemy, treason or espionage. Anyway, his move was intercepted by the Israeli High Court of Justice (as everyone expected), but he got the attention he wanted.
On a personal note, I really despise this Avigdor Liberman dude and his ideas.-
Thanks for weighing in, Uri.
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Aw thats nice, evryone thinks they have won.
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Not very accurate and too simplistic.
"reducing the number of Arabs who are Israeli citizens"
This is incorrect interpretation of his intentions. The "reducing" is for Arabs who support terrorists and hate Israel.
If more Arabs will accept Israel as their country and be loyal to it, including National Service, than he will be glad to accept them and give them every right.
There is big non-Jewish population that lives in Israel, all kind of ancient tribes - Cherkes, Druze and Bedouins. They are Muslim, but most of them serve in Israeli army, so they enjoy all the citizen rights as Jewish population. And no one wants them out because they loyal to Democratic government of Israel.
Read and learn more about Israel before you say something like that.-
nekro- I agree with you. It comes down to loyalty. Why should Israel provide for and protect people that want to see Israel and the Jews destroyed? It does not make sense. -
Nekrosoma, I was quoting the New York Times www.nytimes.com/2006/12/07/world/middleeast/07mideast.html
Avigdor Lieberman is on record over and over again for saying he wants as many Arabs out of Israel as possible.
www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/11/05/africa/ME_GEN_Israel_Lieberman.php
Ok I know Avigdor Lieberman only moved to Israel from Russia recently so maybe he has a thing or two to learn about Israel maybe you should get in touch with him.
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First, Lieberman moved to Israel from Moldavia, or Moldova. It was part of Soviet Union, but it is definitely not Russia.
Second, he moved to Israel in '78, when he was 20 years old. This means that he lives 30 years in Israel, much more than in USSR. This is not "recently" at all.
Now, it doesn't matter how long person lives in a country in order to understand the situation in it. Rational and logical thinking, and ability to analyze the reality is not something that measured by age.
Quoting newspaper is fine, but accepting what this newspaper says is not smart. It is not possible, even in long journalistic coverage, to fully understand the point of view and opinions of a person, especially in politics.
All this newspaper can do is to judge him as superficially as possible, without researching and understanding his ideas, and all just because he is considered too extreme, too radical.
People just assuming the worst in such case, naturally opposing his new ideas without even understanding them, because they are too different (not as the old ideas that worked very well so far, right?).
I don't know completely what Mr Lieberman suggesting, I don't agree with most of what I do know, but at least I am not jumping with fast accusations based on some brief article, that shows short collage of his sayings.-
Polybore is afraid that the only person throwing fast accusations based on assumptions here is yourself nekrosoma. You have absolutely no idea how much Polybore has read around this subject and you have assumed it was on the basis of one article.
Ok is it safe to base them on the Yisrael Beytenu English language web site (not that Polybore has accused anyone of anything in this discussion)? Check it out their manifesto is there.
www.yisraelbeytenu.com/
The message of Yisrael Beytenu is simple and not difficult to understand.
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Israel and Canada must abandon the silly British Monte Pythonish forms of parliamentary government...
The backroom coalitions of the political charletans in Israel are ridiculous and non-productive...
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