Political Discussions
It's The President. What's The Problem.
Posted by ReneMonroe • 9/04/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: controversy, politics, president obama
So apparently there is this huge controversy over President Obama speaking to school children about staying in school and working hard. I have one question. What is the problem with that?
People are jumping all over President Obama over this for no reason. Conservatives such as Glenn Beck are accusing President Obama of trying to "indoctrinate our children with a liberal agenda."
Tell me, how is a speech of staying in school a political message for one, and how is it even anywhere near being a specifically liberal message for another? My question to all of you is, what do you think of this whole controversy?
User Comments
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Some people are really scared. The entertainment networks, i.e. Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, etc., are fanning the flames to get ratings. There is always a fringe element but because of fears of the next great depression multiplied by 24 hr/day entertainment networks, the fringe is getting larger and more reactionary. -
It's a sad day when children will miss this important lesson in civics because their parents have no respect for the office of the presidency and the democratic procedures that elected him. It doesn't augur well for the future of our civic culture either. These people claim to be patriots, but they are putting their ideology ahead of their country.
FYI, you'll find more reactions in this thread: www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/who-is-indoctrinating-who -
I haven't heard anything about someone having a problem with the president speaking to children.
What i've heard problems with is the lesson plan that the whitehouse sent to school teachers to run after the speech.
Even the Whitehouse must have seen there was something off with it since they revised it.
www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/090309dnnatobamapl...-
OMG! He's going to turn them into little union goons :O -
Maybe parents fear the cognitive dissonance that could arise in their children when the children discover that Obama is a rather impressive and decent human being, not the joker or monster that their parents make him out to be.
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Yes, perfect example.
Because Hitlers ability to deliver good speeches really meant that he wasn't that bad at all...
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csi: do you really believe obama is at a level of Hitler? Obama and you have dramatically different politics. Ok. But Hilter?
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A failed historical analogy if there ever was one.
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And why is that? Because it doesn't make your dear leader look good, or because it proves your point of him being "Impressive and decent" is a matter of opinion at best.
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Please do some real reading about the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler. I mean real history, not Wikipedia or whatever you have managed to remember from school.
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Xmarks,
NO... think again.
I Said that Hitler, LIKE Obama was able to deliver SPEECHES that made him appear both Impressive and decent. Which is why he managed to gather a nation behind him. To say that the children will "see him as" such, isn't any indication that he indeed is.
Obama is a great speaker, and he has great writers and a good teleprompter. That doesn't mean that the message is either true or something that parents want their children to hear and base any kind of opinion on.
Mark,
Sigh... "go do some reading" the classic copout of those that can't substantiate their position. -
So because I don't have time to teach you the history of National Socialist Germany, and because you are unwilling to read books, but expect to find the history condensed here into a one-liner, every inappropriate analogy you make is true? I am reminded of Anok's town hall experience. (www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/ask-me-quick#comment_1109593)
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yes. I am too.
Though you have to realize that people who have to advise corporate boards for a living can't find time for reading history (but can find the time to comment on discussions for hours at a time) -
csiunatc now, now. You are being slightly disingenuous there. Unless of course whenever you hear an impressive speech you go up to the person making it and say something along the lines of,
"Great speech, you nailed it, you nailed it like Hitler"
The last time polybore checked having one's oratory compared with Hitler was not a compliment.
Comparisons between Hitler and Obama, verbal, in writing or on those placards (Obama's face with Hitler moustache), although obscene actually amuse polybore.
They amuse polybore not because of their obscenity or because they doubtless upset Obama supporters. They don't even amuse polybore because Obama is a tough cookie and won't let cheap shots like that bother him, no doubt he has had worse, maybe he even laughs about it.
No, polybore is amused because the one bunch of people who will truly be disgusted, appalled and sickened by these images, comments and comparisons are... Nazis, facists and Hitler fans. Oh how they must hate it.
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Earlier speeches: www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0909/The_speech_to_students.html
RIght-wingers criticism: www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/26711.html
More on this story of right-wing hysteria aimed at scoring political points at the cost of our civic culture: www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/26744.html
Edited to add this great quote from the last piece:
> Democratic strategist Chris Lehane said the protest
> against the presidential speech “shows at some level how
> desperate the right is to find an issue to challenge Obama
> on ...They have gotten some traction on health care, but
> the mere fact that they have jumped on this reflects that
> this is a party without a voice. Are they going to run in
> the mid-terms on a ‘Presidents shouldn’t talk to kids’
> platform?”-
gotta love politico.
.They have gotten some traction on health care
LMAO, SOME TRACTION? Ok then, keep believing that. AS long as they underestimate the truth, we'll kick the Dem majority out of Both houses in 10, and Obama all the way back to Hawaii in '12. -
Such careless reading undermines your credibility. Politico did not draw this assessment, "Democratic strategist Chris Lehane" did. And I made the selection, because I found it amusing.
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I don't think any of this is in the speach or lesson plans.
"The idea that school children across our nation will be forced to watch the President justify his plans for government-run health care, banks, and automobile companies, increasing taxes on those who create jobs, and racking up more debt than any other President, is not only infuriating, but goes against beliefs of the majority of Americans, while bypassing American parents through an invasive abuse of power," Chairman Jim Greer said in a press release.
Read more: www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/26711.html#ixzz0Q9bhCwSh-
It's like everything else I've heard from Republicans this year: straw men. One wonders why they always reach for the straw-man argument. Isn't their case strong enough on its merits? (I'm assuming most are not delusional.)
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This thread kinda makes one wonder why the Lefties think it's so imperative that parents let the president address their children directly..
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Who said it was imperative? Another straw man courtesy of CSI.
If anything is imperative, it is knowing that Republican presidents have done the same thing, also with some criticism, but not in the face of such hysteria as we are now seeing. -
its not that the lefties think its important, its that righties have nothing to base their notion that somehow his speech on staying in school is some kind of indoctrination of liberal ideas. its a bunch of glenn beck trash.
the only reason why there is a debate on health care now, for instance, is because of the LIES spread by republicans. i.e. death panels, government paid abortions, taking away peoples right to control their health care. anyone who has read the bill knows that to be true.
this is just another character assassination against the president because republicans have nothing else they can throw at him.
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They'll all bite each other's fingers off! -
I have to wonder if some of the people who are balking now were the same ones who slavishly got "behind their president" during the Bush administration. o_0
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-y2QghS2gU
Are these some of the children who won't be allowed to hear the Obama speech next week?-
oh wow... and this related story ties in to Pete Sessions' "Taliban" comments
www.youtube.com/watch?v=309MCU8TonE&feature=related
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o:originally
b:born in
a:africa
m:managing
a:america-
Oh goodie. A birther.
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Okay I am not going to even bother with your little conspiracy that is based out of racial fear. However I am going to assume that you have not heard, heres a copy of Obama's birth certificate.
www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm heres the story usa today did on it. -
for some people, emotions are all that matter. If they don't FEEL that someone is an American, they cannot accept that their emotions are incorrect. It's sad really... a mental disorder in which thought is based purely on sentimentality...
*shakes head mournfully*
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once you hit add comment, wait a minute before think you need to hit it again.
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And a stand-alone link to one's own blog does not a comment make. More like spam.
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Thanks xmarks
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President Reagan talking to school children, and making GOP policy points while doing it:
crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/talking-schoolchildren-okay-when-uncl
But maybe that doesn't count, because he was Republican, after all.
(hat tip: twitter.com/Wisco)-
What like how to sell arms to Iran then siphon the money to South American terrorists? That is all right then.
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Based on today standards, Reagan might be considered RINO
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Florida GOP getting "pants on fire" rating on PolitiFact:
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/02/republican-party-fl...
(hat tip: twitter.com/Wisco)-
ouch
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The problem lies not in who is addressing the children. The problem lies in what the message might be. When the NEA sent out lesson plans that included instructions to make posters of Obama and featuring his quotes, then that smacks of worship to a person. The message and any lesson plan accompanying it ought to only include focus upon urging the children to put education first. Anything else is propaganda and that is what, IMHO, caused the uproar. When Reagan and Bush 41 spoke to school children, no such NEA lesson plans accompanied those speeches.
This makes me wonder how effective of a leader Obama really is? It ought to be clear that what the NEA did would cause concern. Either he knew about it and approved it, which shows poor judgment on his part; or he did not know about it and the people he put in power took those actions. This also shows poor judgment on his part. You are judged by who you surround yourself with, and Obama seems to favor people such as Van Jones...-
If Obama actually had something to do with coming up with the lesson plans, that would be weird. But lets face it, he probably has little to do with the broadcast (etc) other than reading off of TOTUS
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That is true, and I did not say he had anything to do with developing the lesson plans. However, I find it difficult to believe he did not have final approval.
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he may defer these things to his handlers (if I may use the term that was used for Bush)
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Agree, which goes to my point about his choice of who surrounds him. Their vetting process sucks, to say the least.
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The message has already been stated. It is about staying school and working hard. It isn't going to be anything about health care, banking, the economy etc. It is just about staying in school. Period. So again what is wrong with that? The assertions made by Glenn Beck and others are complete lies.
As for the lesson plan put out by the department of education, that was originally for the children to write letters to Obama on how they can help him. Admitted a little strange and inappropriate. However, that lesson plan was dropped and instead the children are going to write about how they are going to achieve their short term and long term education goals. Now there is nothing wrong with that at all. -
I'm not sure how much politicians are beholden to their party leadership when it comes to these things. i'm actually not.
Even though I'm very critical of Bush, part of me wonders how much he was simply a puppet of others. There is great concern to be found in the process, and also with great complicity. I'll hand you that.
This all being said, one wonders if the cause of opposition could be advanced by being more selective in picking its battles. It would make it easier for those who are somewhere in the middleground to relate. -
If the message is stay in school, eat your vitamins, etc..., then I am certainly all for that. As I said, the NEA's lesson plan evoked feelings that this was a chance for the admin to politicize the school system. If he sticks to the speech presented as it stands, then good. As a black man in the most important office in the nation and the leader of the free world, Obama could be a good role model. If he says, "Hey guys, ask your parents to call their Congressman and tell them to pass health care/cap and trade/yadda, yadda...", then there will naturally be an uproar and rightly so.
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haha. yes, that would be impolitic.
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UM...
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Okay fine. You were making fun of me. I guess I should not have taken you at your word, I won't make that mistake again. You certainly live up to your name. It is easy to sit back and throw out ambiguous answers so that they can be taken either way, then ridicule when you see fit.
You seem to be veering more and more to the left these days, Agit8r. -
I was mocking the notion. I assume that the notion and the person are not inseparable.
As for my position, I would say that the "right" seems to be moving farther away -
Regarding the point you make above about picking battles, Agit8r, it seems to me that the GOP's current method is to throw jello at the wall and see what sticks. It's good for rallying the troops, but I think you're dead on about alienating people in the middle who are not too low on information.
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> Two new polls suggest that the much-covered conservative
> outrage over President Obama's planned speech to
> schoolchildren is a manufactured hissy fit representing
> the sentiments of a fringe minority.
So what else is new?
www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/5/777475/-Polls-find-OVERWHELMING-support...-
so... is it a plot to discredit the right, by sugesting they are all that touched in the head?
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After reading the article, I feel obliged to note that, assuming that the ratio is the same for the entire nation, that would still be about 100,000,000 people... or about twice as many people as voted for Bush in 2000... or about half-again as many as voted for Obama in 2008.
So be worried -
Discredit the right? Me?
Given strong regional differences in this country, I dunno how good the math was. I just enjoyed the rhetoric. -
not you... the media coverage
as to the math, the unfortunate fact is that the country tends to be ruled by the sentiment of a decided minority. Consider that fewer than 51,000,000 out of nearly 300,000,000 voted for Bush in 2000. The apathetic majority defers to party idealogues
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Obamas address should be to the PARENTS of school age children and the assignment should be "What can you do to help this country?"...not to help the President. It is clear that Obama is out to socialize this country, and any attempt to speak directly to children is viewed as an attempt to socialize them, as well.
Our education system suffers from not enough parental influence in the areas of academics, discipline, and respect for this country, as well as, other individuals...Obama's speech should be to promote an improvement of education in those areas. And, it should be made to those who can impact that improvement the most...PARENTS!-
You know thats rather funny. Did you have a problem with Bush Sr or Reagan talking to our school children? Probably not. However conservatives are making this ridiculous, unfounded, unintelligent claim that Obama is going to try and socialize our children.
Forget even that conservatives do not even know how to use the term "socialism" properly since they do not understand the definition. Forget even that they do not understand the difference between a speech about staying in school and working hard and one about reforming health care to help America or about taking personal responsibility. This entire controversy simply based upon conservative lies. Period! -
Addresses to the parents come in the form of prime time addresses and news conferences. We've had those and will get more. Whether or not people tune in and listen or not is another matter. That's up to them.
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Opposition leader to the White House said this about the President's speech to school children.
"The Department of Education should not be producing paid political advertising for the president, it should be helping us to produce smarter students."
Who said that? House Majority leader at the time, Dick Gephardt (D-Mo.) about George H.W. Bush's address to school children in 1991.
Yet today, the Democrats call opposition to Obama's school speech "silly season."
What is good for the goose, is good for the gander? Apparently not.-
There is a considerable difference in scale and tone between the relatively limited Democratic protest in Congress then and the "conservative" hysteria of today.
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Limited protest, lower in tone. I see. -
yeah, I don't remember the "left" freaking out like this about Bush41 or Reagan...
edit: the left-leaning members of the GENERAL PUBLIC. -
That was exactly my point Agit8r. This means the fact that we have no context or source for the photo is irrelevant, since the photo itself is beside the point, unless one man is supposed to stand in for all Democrats and other liberals, which can hardly be the case.
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I wonder if they sent out permission slips for 41...
i don't think the school I went to had satellite feed, cause i don't remember it -
That could be one technical difference. I wonder how Reagan did it. Videotape?
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Its less about the fact that there is opposition and more about the fact that there is so much opposition. The absolute hysteria surrounding this entire thing is rather ridiculous, you must admit even that.
Yes Democrats made some noise regarding G.H. Bush but they were saying that he was using the event to gain political points not that he was going to brainwash the kids with conservative ideas. That is the difference between then and now. -
As to Reagan...
belowthebeltway.com/2009/09/03/reagan-gave-obama-like-speech-to-schoolchild...
Among other things...
"Gun ban? Well, I think there has to be some control. But I thought that in California we had a system that probably was the best. I have never felt that we should, for the law-abiding citizens, take the gun away from them and make it impossible to have one. I think the wrong people will always find a way to get one. But what we had was — even if today when I go back to California, if I want a gun and go in a store to buy a gun, I have to give them the money, but I have to wait a week, no matter who I am. I have to wait a week and come back then to get the gun, because in that week, my name is presented to investigative element there in the State that checks to make sure that I have no criminal record, that I have no record of mental problems or anything of the kind. Then, and only then, can you pick up the gun and take it with you."
See also: www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/who-is-indoctrinating-who#commen... -
That Q & A is interesting indeed. Nice that they include a link to the whole transcript.
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of course when Clinton said as much he was a gun-grabbing communist...
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okay well, Obama has released the transcript of his speech and it is available on the white houses website. From what I've read, it speaks nothing of liberal ideals and is extremely inspiring to stay in school and work to help become a productive member of society. Looks like Obama was true to his word. But here, you can check it our for yourselves.
www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResources/PreparedSchoolRemarks/-
It's the end of the world as we know it! It will mean the ruin of America!
Oh wait. I forgot to read it.
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Well, he does mention the possibility students growing up to find a cure for AIDS. I suppose some social conservatives won't like the neutral tone, preferring instead to teach that that disease is God's punishment for immoral behavior.
And he says God Bless America, which might annoy the atheist crowd. Only they're not the one's freaking out.
Finally, he doesn't bash any educated elites. He wants kids to learn and to love learning instead of learning to mistrust learning. Pretty dangerous stuff. -
It's all so subversive!
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I read the speech as released and said on here before, even though I was attacked by a certain "teacher," that I had no problem with an "atta boy" speech of inspiring children to stay in school.
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then we aren't talking about you, but rather the wacky-doos : )
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Well, you can speak for yourself Agit8r, but others on BC would rather attack everything I say than take it at face value. Seems like it is more fun to look for some hidden meaning...
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I wonder how much of the noise is coming from people who actually use public schools. Some mistrust them so deeply that they have homeschooling with specific learning (read: indoctrination) agendas.
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One honest conservative: Laura Bush thinks Obama is right to give his speech.
(Pick your own source: www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=laura+bush+obama+school+speech...)-
Don't get them started about that left-wing Laura Bush...
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Gingrich often sounds reasonable in his analysis, if not his policies, but then he goes and screws it up for me again and again with blind party rhetoric. Nice to see him being reasonable again.
And, oh gosh, a historian and PhD to boot. Whatever are the anti-intellectuals to make of that? -
yes, even though I don't agree with a everything that Gingrich says, he at least seems like a reasonable guy.
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You guys are funny.
What you really mean is that he is reasonable when he agrees with Obama.
Just say it, it's easy enough to figure out what the criteria for being "reasonable" is in your books. -
no, I'm saying that he legislated (and wrote) with reason, and it was probably why he got night-of-long-knived out of congress.
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really?
What are you referring to?
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Could it be that the speech was motivational? twitter.com/Tara_R/status/3843791869
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Why don't you read the rest of that persons tweets. Would be hard pressed to think that she'd come up with anything negative about the potus.
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Well csi, that would make it harder to demonize someone wouldn't it? Far easier to pick apart someone when you cherry pick. But I better watch out, seems someone likes to hit the report button...
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Oh yes i know.
They b-tch and moan if parents don't want their kids to listen to Obama. But then they get so offended that they have to hit the report button every time someone disagrees with them.
Fact,
When the protests began, the only information available was the lesson plan. A lesson plan that contained language even the whitehouse couldn't justify enough to keep.
If the Whitehouse can't justify the language used in the information available to the parents, it stands to reason that parents having no other information than that plan make their decisions based on it.
The real truth here is that With all the Radicals, Race Baiters, Communists and whatnot that Obama keeps close to him, nothing he does is Uncontroversial anymore. Fewer and fewer people trust him, and certainly don't trust him with their kids.
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I see some nitpicking about comments here, but I notice the right-wingers are being silent about brainwashing now. Could it be that the world didn't end despite Obama's speech today?
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I see you ignored the post above.
When the complaints were coming, the ONLY information available was the lesson plan, the language of which not even the White House could justify enough to keep.
The full text was not available until monday, which was too late for parents to make any formal statements about, since this was a holiday.
Fact of the matter is, without full insight, fewer and fewer people are trusting Obama to even keep a school address free of indoctrination. -
this is what my kids looked like when they came home:
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@CSI: Your sentiment says more about you and those who share it than it does about Obama.
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Your unwillingness to accept facts says everything about you.
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The issue with the lesson plan was about writing a letter how to help the president, given in a context of education. The complaints were something like:
"The idea that school children across our nation will be forced to watch the President justify his plans for government-run health care, banks, and automobile companies, increasing taxes on those who create jobs, and racking up more debt than any other President, is not only infuriating, but goes against beliefs of the majority of Americans, while bypassing American parents through an invasive abuse of power," Chairman Jim Greer said in a press release.
Read more: www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/26711.html#ixzz0Q9bhCwSh
The facts in the lesson plan and the facts in the complaints don't seem to agree????? -
So now Greer speaks for everyone?
That's hardly the complaint I heard among friends who were concerned about this.
Their complaint was that they didn't know what their children would be asked to "help him with".
Also, there was the question about describing "how Obama Inspires you".
Never heard one of them mention that there was a problem with the actual speech.
My neighbor said it best. He was concerned that it would be a speech about service, things like Americorps etc. and that it would drive students into that kind of "helping Obama". Or even worse, that he would speak on joining community organizations like Acorn.
There was no information, and the wording of the lesson plan was the only information available. Until Monday, when it was too late to make any meaningful statements for parents since it was Labor day.
Because of that, they chose to raise their concerns last week, with the information available at the time. Information that was so poorly worded that the Whitehouse withdrew it. -
"Or even worse, that he would speak on joining community organizations like Acorn."
oh, wow... -
Well ACORN might have started out as a good idea, but somewhere along the lines it has been hijacked by the far left. Something very fraudulent is going on with it.
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here's the thing, though; the more "mainstream" people that get involved with a movement, the more they tend to bring it away from its fringes.
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Who'd've thunk it? ACORN appearing in this thread? I know it's always on the minds of right-wingers, who use it as a bogeyman, but bringing it in here took some work.
And yesterday's speech? Any reactions from the right on that? Was it as "dangerous" as they feared? Or is the topic here still right-wing fears and not the actual event? -
it was easier than responding to my analysis of Reagan's pedagogy below... were you the one who asked for that video, Mark?
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Nope. I got my fill of Reagan in the 80s, though I suppose listening to him now might reveal some interesting differences to today's conservatives, even if he helped make them what they are.
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While speaking to a group of 9th graders at the same school, Obama did address the subject of healthcare... in response to a question on healthcare:
www.c-span.org/flvPop.aspx?src=60days/wh090809_obama3.flv&s=9.142&e=384.017... -
In response to the request for video of Reagan, I'm going to try and hot-link it in here
that didn't work... let's try a link drop...
www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&produ...
yays!
It is quite amazing that many of the policy ideas that he indoctrinates were carried out by a Republican congress, and a Democratic president...
including "workfare programs" for educatation (or--as it was called a few comments above--"service, things like Americorps etc") -
I was worried that he would not stick to the planned speech. However he did stay on track and that was good. But on 4 different occasions he stated that "if the kids don't do what he is saying they will be responsible for the demise of the country". Seems like a pretty tough burden for elementary students to grasp, junior high students are already in the akward "not quit and adult" weird period, so that had to be tough on them and the High school students are just trying to figure out what to do for their future. So for Obama to continue to tell them the will let the country down...
That is not positive.-
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I found it interesting that there was all this hubub about Obama speaking to kids - yet when Micheal Vick (sp?) shows up at a school to speak the parents were perfectly OK with that.....
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a professional athlete is a race-role that is universally acceptable in our society. President? maybe not so much.
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Try speaking at one school, compared to speaking to every school.
talk about comparing apples and exhaust pipes.. -
Try talking about a convicted criminal who made his money torturing animals....
And yet - parents had no problem with him speaking to their kids....but the president of the US? OMG RUN AWAY!!!! Boycott! Pull your darling's out of the school!!! We can't trust this guy, no wway!
Oh, the ex-con animal torturer will be speaking to the kids today? OK, I guess he's cool...
One school or all schools - it doesn't matter - there was NO outrage about a criminal who was incarcerated for heinous actions having access to their precious children's minds.
I wonder how many of those parents pulled their kid out of school during Obama's speech because they didn't want them to hear that they should stay in school, and create their own future..... -
You miss the point, he is safe around kids. If it were an obedience school where he was attempting to indoctrinate the puppies, then well that would be unacceptable...
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It's more a matter of ethics. Do you want a convicted criminal who tortures animals talking to your kids? Do you think that might raise some concerns among parents? Perhaps holding a person like Vick up as a role model for kids to listen to might pose a moral dilemma?
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Um....I was being sarcastic.
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Oh, sorry I've had a really tough week, my sarcastic meter is broken
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You know, ReneMonroe, maybe we should say what the problem is. The problem is that a vocal minority in this country is unwilling to acknowledge that Obama is the president. Why? Well, that gets into some ugliness, and I suppose this school thread is supposed to be family friendly.
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Wow! mark plays the race card!!! Who could have predicted that one??!!
/sarcasm -
Here's what I said to your nearly identical comment elsewhere: www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/presidential-address-to-joint-se...
Nothing new, of course. -
Well, I do think there is that small minority who are unwilling to accept the fact that Obama is president. I mean, if we take into account the birthers that is.
I also think that "socialism" has become the new communism. As they say, history repeats itself. So I could definitely see this conservative view of socialism being the new litmus test for the presidency.
Never mind that most of Obama's policies don't even go anywhere near socialism. However it would be easy to call his policies socialist and get away with it since the majority of Americans do not understand what socialism even is.
None the less you bring up a wonderful point. -
mark, I just don't manufacture racism to suit what point I am trying to make, like SOME on here do...
Rene...most of El Presidente's policies are socialistic.
Redistributing wealth, universal health care, nationalizing private corporations, cap and trade, etc... They all revolve around his belief that a strong, authoritarian central government is the answer to all of society's ills.
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I participated in a phone survey today where I had to talk about 'agree or disagree' to some things to do with the leader of the opposition for the state. I do not like the opposition. But so many of the things they were surveying me about made no sense whatsoever, and so I've probably screwed up their research by saying 'disagree' to things that I was clearly being led to replying 'agree' to. If I can agree that the opposition leader has good points, and that the currently in control leader has bad points... but still respect him, why is it such a *huge* deal in the US?-
Respect must be earned, it is not to be given freely and it is easy to lose but oh so very hard to win back.
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Isn't the winning of the presidency an automatic winning of respect?
He can lose that respect, yes. But after being voted into office you have already established that at least a majority of the country respects you enough to vote you into office.
Hell, even Bush got that much respect from me. After BOTH elections. (It wasn't until the last two years he lost all of my respect). -
You'd have to believe in democracy for your statements to be true. I happen to believe they are.
I find ironic that an anarchist has to take a basically conservative stance (showing some faith in our democratic institutions) when explaining something to someone who claims to be a conservative. -
Well, to me it's not about what I believe or want, but rather what is. While I certainly take issue with many aspects of the electoral process, when push comes to shove a person who has worked to become such a high ranking official by both popular vote and the electoral college has earned his or her respect - initially.
Whether or not they keep it is another thing entirely -
Apropos respect, Poltico has a piece called "Who's afraid of Barrack Obama?" (www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27057.html) Apparently not enough people. Seems Machiavelli's old adage about being feared and loved might still hold true on the Hill. (Bad paraphrase from memory: Being loved is okay, but being feared is the only thing reliable, because you can control this factor, and because human beings are fickle.) This issue might point to one very real limit of the bipartisanship mantra.
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Or Al Capone:
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.
Use "gun" as metaphor for "fear"
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