Political Discussions
NHS comes through again...
Posted by anticsrocks • 9/01/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: abuse, daily mail, elderly, food, Fraud, government run health care, meals, NHS, socialized medicine, waste
Seems our friends at the NHS are at it again providing stellar service and world class care.
From the Daily Mail in the UK -
"Patients in Health Service hospitals are far more likely to go hungry than criminals in jail, scientists warned yesterday.
They say frail and elderly patients do not get the help they need with meals, and nobody checks whether they get enough to eat.
Despite years of Government promises to tackle poor hospital nutrition, food still arrives cold, and patients often miss out because meal times clash with tests and operations.
Hospital meals are often taken away untouched, because they are either unappetising or are placed out of patients' reach.
The latest figures show 242 patients died of malnutrition in NHS hospitals in 2007 - the highest toll in a decade. More than 8,000 left hospital under-nourished - double the figure when Labour came to power.
The NHS throws away 11million meals every year, and many nurses say they are too busy to help the frail eat.
The latest figures show 242 patients died of malnutrition in NHS hospitals in 2007 - the highest toll in a decade. More than 8,000 left hospital under-nourished - double the figure when Labour came to power.
The NHS throws away 11 million meals every year, and many nurses say they are too busy to help the frail eat."
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1210109/Prisoners-better-diet-Health-Servi...
Yeah, Government run health care, just what the doctor ordered...
User Comments
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The NHS had a lot of problems when I was there too. It isn't centralized, but run and managed by various "trusts." Some trusts are really good, providing quality service and good management of the money alloted to them. Some trusts on the other hand, are just pathetic. It seems to just be a question of luck, as to whether or not your trust is good. I've heard that the wealthier "Postal Codes" get better care. Maybe someone who has spent their whole life in Britain could explain this better.
As for me, I lived in the North of England along the Scottish Border. My NHS Trust was very efficient and I was quite happy with the service it provided. Maybe it was because I lived in a lightly populated area and they had less people to deal with. As far as the problems you mentioned, I believe them without reading the link to your article. Things like that were mentioned often in the British papers.
I still support health care for all, but it doesn't necessarily have to be "government run." I do believe however, that if we keep our insurance companies, that they should be government regulated at least, to allow care for everyone, with no regard to income, pre-existing conditions, etc.-
That is the weird thing about the NHS. 99.9% of people are happy with the local service they receive but for some reason they think other people in other locations, of which they have no direct experience, get a terrible service.
The NHS treats millions of people and a vast array of medical conditions every year successfully and saves lives without a bill in sight. But of course this is not news worthy, what people read about are the relatively tiny number of mistakes and statistics that have been jazzed up into a nice scare story.
All is not perfect with the NHS however it is constantly working to improve and despite the glitches, on the whole, it is an emphatic success.
Anyway, why people in the US knock the NHS polybore does not know. It's not like many of them have ever used it or for that matter really know anything about it. If they did they would know that Obama's health care reforms could not lead to a system remotely like the NHS. In fact you could say Obama's proposals are nothing but an undersized sticking plaster on the 40 million gaping wound. -
I agree with a lot of what you say, NT - but to throw out 11 million meals a year? Wow.
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@poly...I think what you perceive as attacks against the NHS by Americans are, at least in my case and those people I know personally, attempts to demonstrate why we don't want Government run health care. You have to admit that the NHS and NICE denying cancer victims in your country certain life saving drugs because they are too expensive is not good health care at all. And the reason the NHS has to do that is because under socialized medicine, rationing is how the shortage of funds is countered.
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"99.9% of people are happy with the local service they receive but for some reason they think other people in other locations, of which they have no direct experience, get a terrible service.
Anyway, why people in the US knock the NHS polybore does not know. It's not like many of them have ever used it or for that matter really know anything about it.
@polybore
I am an American who has used the NHS, and if you will read some of my answers in this other health care discussion ( www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/health-care-is-not-a-right ), you'll see that I have nothing but praise for it. I had preventative procedures performed at the local hospital with little wait, and I had emergency treatment performed, all by very competent medical professionals. I was extremely pleased with the level of care that I received.
My son was diagnosed with diabetes while I was living in Britain as well. I am very thankful for his NHS GP who diagnosed it early, as I am thank ful for the hospital care and continuous treatment that he received from the NHS specialists in the hospital. Once again, the level of care was excellent, and I must say that the diabetes care that he recieved in the UK was far superior to the treatment that he receives at the hands of our American Insurance companies.
But not only was the NHS care that my family and I received excellent, the fact that I never had to pay a penny for it (other than taxes) was a great comfort. Even when I was injured and consequently unemployed (meaning I wasn't paying taxes during that time), it gave me great peace of mind knowing that medical was still available and free. I would gladly pay additional taxes here in the USA for a system as I had under my NHS Trust.
It's true what you said though, that people think care elsewhere is inferior. I too thought myself lucky to be under a well-run Trust. But this was due to the NHS being criticised weekly in your British papers, although truthfully I never met anyone personally who had any major gripes with the system.
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Many patients are malnourished when admitted to hospital. Goes with the territory of illness and is typical of any medical system in any country.
There is no quick fix to malnutrition and if there are other complicating medical conditions present then this can lead to death in hospital.
Of course it is a concern but the Daily Mail has, unsurprisingly, rather made a meal of it.-
Good points, but it is clear there is a problem of understaffing.
"...the Daily Mail has, unsurprisingly, rather made a meal of it."
LOL -
Yes sorry for the pun could not resist. It is true nurses have more responsibilities than ever. Don't know how it works in the US but these days in the UK nurses carry out complex medical procedures and because of this they have to graduate from University before joining the profession.
A point that has been raised here is that if people are joining the nursing profession, on an academic route, to be a sort of "paradoctor" are they the same people that nursing traditionally attracted who maybe had a stronger interest in (holistic care?) the basics of good care. -
We have different levels of nursing here in the U.S.
CNA's - Certified Nurses Assistants, they take vitals (blood pressure, temp, etc...), feed patients, and do things that don't require medical knowledge to any large degree.
LPN's - Licensed Practical Nurses. they do just about everything but start IV's, draw blood, etc...
RN's - Registered Nurses, they do the higher level things that the LPN's don't.
Then there are higher levels of nurses like Nurse Practitioners and then just under doctors are Physicians' Assistants.
Those last two can make diagnoses and write prescriptions, but they are supervised by a Physician.
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It is great that Antics takes such an interest in injustices overseas, but isn't their a UK politics group?-
He's quite the crime fighter. Wonder why he leaves out the injustices of the private US health insurance providers? -
Attacking me now, Agit8r? How very unlike you. Since when is comparing the UK NHS with Obamacare somehow to be looked down upon?
@ruin...seems the only time now you will reply to me is to jump on the attack bandwagon. Predictable and boorish, how very LIKE you. -
I wsn't attacking... poking fun perhaps, because there really is no comparison. In fact, according to the senate, there is going to be no "Obamacare" per se
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Any information on how many people die of malnutrition in U.S. hospitals?-
I don't know the reputation of this source. According to it, (pg 11) a sample of 311 long term care residents (therefore, I assume malnutrition should therefore be at least monitored by hospital staff if not be directly responsible for it) found that 38.6% met criteria for malnutrition risk.
Other research put long term care malnutrition is between 35% and 85%.
abbottnutrition.com/resources/en-US/nutrition/Malnutrition.pdf -
linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0002822396000995
Just an abstract but it is inline with xmarks link. -
The percentages are hard to judge given that we don't know the cause of malnutrician or the state of the people when they came in. but it does suggest not all is right in US care.
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I found a cancer site that cites 40% of cancer patients die of malnutrition. But it doesn't give numbers. Here is the URL.
www.nutritioncancer.com/malnutrition.html
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Just once I'd like to see the OP cite a different British newspaper than that rag called the Daily Mail. How about the Independent or the Times? Or are those too heady?-
What's the matter, mark? You think throwing away 11 million meals a year is okay? And now, not only are you attacking me, you are now attacking British newspapers.
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How's the BBC mark? Are they disreputable as well?
newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staff... -
The BBC is better.
Now how is this relevant to the health care reform debate in the US? (Warning: that was a rhetorical question, since no national system of the British type is even being contemplated, except in the ill-informed minds of some misguided opponents to health care reform.)
By the way, what's with this dance you have started doing whenever I am not there to satisfy you with an instant answer? Is there some kind of new rule or something that says every question you ask will be answered and answered promptly? I didn't get the memo.
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Given comparable studies in the U.S., it is hard to say which country is giving superior care in this aspect.
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At the end of the day the UK has universal healthcare the US does not.
Essentially this article from the Jerusalem Post sums up polybore's position and probably the position of most people looking in on this debate.
www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251804487748&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticl...-
An excellent article polybore. I knew that we had people dying here from lack of medical care, but I had no idea the numbers were so high.
I think that everyone who is against reforming our embarassing health care system should read this article. The sad thing though, is that those who are opposed to it for the incomprehensible reasons mentioned, could read it until they're blue in the face, even have it inscribed on their eyelids, and their opinions wouldn't change. This article titled "Health Care Debate Based on Lack of Logic" explains why:
www.livescience.com/culture/090826-healthcare-debate.html
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I think that a lot of people's motivation for opposing health care reform is fear over loosing what they have. The median care in the US is pretty good. Can be improved, as can everything, but is pretty good. Reform has a lot of focus on giving better care to those at the bottom end of the healthcare spectrum. That has to come at a cost. Many are concerned that the median person in the US's healthcare will suffer for that those who don't have a healthcare plan will get covered.
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