Political Discussions
Reporting "Fishy" things to the government
Posted by csiunatc • 8/07/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: fishy
I'm sure most have heard about the whitehouse attempt to gather information on opposition to the healthcare reform.
Notwithstanding the potential 1st amendment problems here. I'd love to hear what the people on Obamas side have to say about it.
the statement is as follows.
"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to xxxx@whitehouse.gov."
Yes i x'ed out the email addy, because i'm not going to help them with this.
My question for the community is the following.
1. What do you think would have been the reaction if Bush had posted this about anti-war protestors?
2. Is this acceptable at all?
Should we have neighbors reporting dissenting views to the government?
User Comments
-
The White House has responded to misleading claims surrounding health care reform on their blog here:
Facts Are Stubborn Things
www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/
Within this post Linda Douglass, the communications director for the White House’s Health Reform Office, addresses one example that makes it look like the President intends to "eliminate" private coverage, when the reality couldn’t be further from the truth.
The post continues with the statement above.
So...
1) The White House is recognizing that there is a lot of disinformation regarding health care reform.
2) They are acknowledging that it is disseminated via different types of media - including chain emails.
3) They are requesting that people forward some of this disinformation so they can better respond.
The WH is not asking for names, address, phone numbers, photos, etc. They are simply asking to be alerted when someone sees something they consider 'fishy' (IE: health care reform disinformation, instructions to disrupt town hall meetings, etc.).
The information is already in the public domain via news articles, op-ed pieces, talk radio, videos and chain emails. I don't see how the request could be seen as a 1st amendment problem (except by the far right since it suits their needs).
Regarding Bush and anti-war protesters... Does not really compare. The WH has NOT asked for information on people who DO NOT AGREE with health care reform... they are asking to be alerted about bogus information being circulating about health care reform.
NO... we should not have neighbors reporting dissenting views to the government.-
If I forward an email you send me to the Whitehouse, they HAVE To save your email. It's part of what they are required to do with ALL public transformation.
So in a sense anyone that doesn't want to have their email saved by the whitehouse shouldn't send dissenting information since anyone might consider that "fishy" at which point your email will be on file with the whitehouse.
And it doesn't say it's only "chain emails" or anything of the sort, it says anything you receive or see online.
They even mention "casual conversation"... now I really don't have to tell you what connotations i get from that.
The fact that we SHOULDN"T have it, doesn't mean that this is exactly what they are creating. -
First of all,
Like ruinous said below, this is from an official whitehouse page, and the email listed is an official whitehouse.gov address.
www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/
And It seems that Fishy is a left-wing mantra.. -
as in mailing dead fish? -
Bingo Agit8r!!
-
-
First of all, what is your source for this information, CSI? You cannot just produce text here and expect us to take it at face value. This could be just as legitimate as the faith birth certificate from Kenya. I'm not going to take your word for it.
But if the text did come from inside the White House, the analogy you are trying to make is specious. You cannot compare a desire to know about rumors that need to be addressed in the public forum with denunciations of citizens for allegedly illegal activities. Those are two completely different animals.
I do think, however, that whoever issued this email, if it is legitimate, should have taken into account that some people would do the kind of illogical analogizing that you are attempting.-
mark, you mention the Obama birth certificate more often on BC than anyone else. Maybe you are a birther...
-
-
By the way, that makes two threads in which I've seen right-wingers use the term "fishy" this week. New right-wing mantra?
(the other thread: www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/my-grassroots)-
In defense of CSI... The text above comes from the WH blog and it contains the word 'fishy'.
"If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy,..."
www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/
YES... the WH should have taken into account that some people would distort the request for information. -
So we're all going to be saying "fishy" for the rest of this summer? Oh boy.
Thanks for clarifying both that and the source of the information in the OP.
-
-
'as our second president famously said, "facts are stubborn things."'
sounds a little like the Sedition Act. o_0 -
The problem here, is that the White House is doing a political battle and wants to know what it is fighting. But some will recall that the White House is also at the head of the executive branch and see ulterior motives.
The worry is nonsense, since these views are being bandied about all over the internet. While a lot also gets circulated via email, that makes its way onto blogs, forums like this, etc. There is no reason for the White House to solicit this information, no matter how innocuously it intended its request.
. . . Actually, there might be an unstated reason, but far different than what the OP suspects. It could be that the White House is using this as one way to mobilize its supporters. No harm in that either, if this were a political operation. But it's also a branch of government, which is where the confusion comes in for CSI.
All administrations have to grapple with this, and so far I haven't seen any serious breeches. Will have to wait and see if the kind analogizing CSI has done here has legs, or if it is just one more salvo in the health care reform battle.-
mark, do you HONESTLY believe that the White House cannot surf the internet by themselves and need citizens to report things and people to them? If they cannot gather this information alone without help, then how are they competent enough to take over the health care system?
-
I believe I just offered a different reason for their request, which I also view as superfluous. Please read before firing off a retort, especially this part: "There is no reason for the White House to solicit this information, no matter how innocuously it intended its request."
-
"The problem here, is that the White House is doing a political battle and wants to know what it is fighting."
Really? Sounds like you were defending them... -
It must be exhausting to be you.
-
Nope, not at all. But thanks for your concern.
-
-
Already with this one? I just hear about this last night...how people are claiming that the Whitehouse is only doing this to collect e mail and personal information from citizens to spy on them.
Trust me, if they wanted to spy on you, they already can, thanks to Bush. (Where was the outrage from the right about that kind of spying?)
Here's a hint, if you don't like the idea of e mailing the Whitehouse, then don't!-
But the special powers that Bush obtained for the government only amount to a fact, which makes them irrelevant. What matters is the right-wing imagination.
-
Mark, your sarcasm has gotten much better over the years
-
As if Bush was the first President to be accused of 'spying' on Americans... But since mark hates him so much, he is - as usual - his first example.
-
Antics, You know Anok would have had a fit if a Republican president had asked that we report dissent to the Whitehouse..
It's not the right thing to do.. as long as the right it's doing it. For the left, it's a major nothing.
Like you said, this is not about gathering information. This is about having the people snitch on their neighbors.
Mark,
Public informing the government about what they see or hear that doesn't seem "right"...
You study European history, can you think of another place that used to do this?? It's right at the tip of my tongue... Help me out here. -
I believe that I already conceded the White House's error here: www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/reporting-fishy-things-to-the-go...
Do you read threads you comment on? -
I asked you a question, I wasn't commenting on above.
-
Actually, they're not asking anyone to "snitch" although the Bush administration did that outright - and literally (And it was wholly supported by Coulter, Limbaugh, Savage et al when it was announced you should report your neighbors to the Department of Homeland Security).
But asking to pass on stated myths and misconceptions without divulging anyone's personal information is not "snitching".
Besides, if they want to read your e mail, they already can. Bush did for years. -
Anok, I have no problem with our Government asking us to turn in people that are suspected terrorists. I have a huge problem with this. You should too. It is wrong and more to the point, it is a sign of desperation on Obama's part.
-
I have far less of a problem with the government asking to hear about what's being said about their proposals WITHOUT naming any names then I do with a government turning to McCarthyism.
Why?
Because the McCarthesque mob mentality has far more serious repercussions than someone forwarding, or send thing Whitehouse an e mail that says "the government is going to take away our medicine".
People who are "turned in" as terrorists are then labeled as such - they can't fly or travel anywhere, their house might get raided, they may be detained or worse. Their lives can be ruined by a grudge and a phone call. -
So why didn't they ask you to copy and paste the info instead of asking for the emails to be forwarded. Because they want to begin to build an enemies list? Sound far fectched?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon%27s_Enemies_List
www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/us/politics/11clinton.html
www.rinf.com/columnists/news/bushs-enemies-list-why-did-bush-commit-an-ille... -
what's next, extreme renditions? Waterboarding? The Ratmask!!!?
-
Don't forget "Bug in a Box!"
-
I thought (copy and paste or forwarding) was what they were asking for. Or, more to the point "forward" as in passing it on in any form, not "forwarding" in e mail lingo.
*meh* -
I was satirizing the slippery slope we we down during the previous administration... just never got picked up on
-
@Anok
This is the statement in question:
"If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."
It's a request for bogus information received via email or seen somewhere on the web... nothing more. There is NO request for email addresses or URLs. I believe the intention is to help the WH respond better to these bogus claims. However, our friends on the far right have equated that request to Gestapo tactics. It's ridiculous I know, but should come as no surprise given the far right's response to much of what Obama and the Democrats are trying to accomplish. -
Anok, the next time you get a forwarded email, look at how you can see all the email addys that are in the header. Like I said, they worded it ambiguously and drones like ruin can find no fault with it. Had Nixon done this, (had there been an internet the way we know it back then) or even Bush. The far left would have gone into a frenzy.
-
-
While I agree that the government already CAN spy on whoever they want, it seems that their being helped to target those who send bunk info helps them profile people, who they may use the powers endowed by the PATRIOT act to spy on further (with such warranted searches perhaps leading to prosection... or worse--being that this is the slippery slope we've desended).
More likely though, they would simply be the recipients of propaspamda.-
Yeah, but since these right-wingers have got nothing in the way of a political strategy, they have to try to score tactical victories wherever they can find them.
-
tell me something,
Why do you think Obama adressed the press corps himself after the "Acting stupid" debacle.
could it be that he wanted to shut this down before it got too far out of hand?
As far as strategy, you really should read up on your Sun Tsu. Or since you prefer modern history, the Viet Cong.
One battle at a time, and since this IS a popularity contest, every battle won is one step closer to the victory.
So far, the Right has been extremely successful in shutting down the healthcare package. And from what i can see, the Senators going home to their constituents aren't having an easy time.
So far so good, one small battle at a time. -
Unfortunately the Republicans are fighting two wars. The war of what they think is best for the country and the war of how to regain power. They seem to be putting more effort into the second war than the first.
-
-
At the very least, this is extroardinarily bad politics on the part of the administration... just terrible
-
I agree with Agit8r here. What there doing is not strictly illegal or unconstitutional, but it is creepy as you can find and will turn a lot of people off. -
Actually, Illegal may very well be the next issue.
The first amendment prohibits the Government from disturbing the right to free speech. As with anything it is the effect, not the intent that is illegal.
If a single person feels threathened to not send information to another person because of this "program" it could technically be an infringement of the first amendments rights of that person.
Would be interested to see someone trying that one out in court. -
Yes, but Obama is only the Government when serving as president, this "watch-list" is him serving as Campaign Chief. He's not acting through government to avenge but through his campaign organization.
-
Uh,
Whitehouse.gov email, Whitehouse.gov website...
I'd say that it can be argued this comes from the whitehouse. -
Then he should have done it through barackobama .com and not whitehouse. gov
-
-
Oh as a little sidenote on how these Denunciation campaigns always goes out of hand and is used as scare tactics and retribution by civilians against eachother. Look no further than this board and our own Ruinous.
www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/health-care-reform-misinformatio...-
Careful, he might turn you in to the White House!!!
-
I'm fully expecting that. It's all part of how denunciation works.
-
ROTFL... The fringe is getting more paranoid.
-
Change fringe to majority, and paranoid to angry..
That way you won't be so blindsided when the Dems lose majority in the interim, and Obama gets hurled out in 2012.
It's really incredible that something this stupid comes from a Constitutional Professor. The right don't have to do much other than point out what he's doing, and the rest will take care of itself. -
ruin, don't be paranoid. Maybe there are people out to get you...
Nah, on second thought, I doubt you are big enough to worry about. More like small potatoes, mushy and overcooked.
-
-
These "town hall meetings" have turned into a battlefield between the opposite fringes. The "ordinary folks" are being drowned out by "mobsters," "goons," "plants" and the like. They ought to simply discontinue the meeting before major violence breaks out.
-
Hmm. so what do you consider Representative Kathy Castor to be? A Goon? a Moster?
Being the one that don't let those that are not supporters inside the townhall.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3QeH-z2CbU&feature=related -
She's a politician. But given that she had a last-minute town hall scheduled for her by higher powers, she could fall under the category of "plant" also
-
Politician,
Well she sure is adapting to Chicago style politics quick... -
your brand of goodthinking lost, and their brand of goodthinking won. Deal with it
-
I am dealing with it, i'm doing my bit to make sure it won't happen again.
-
-
They are doing what has always been done they are just more transparent about it and I forward every piece of misinformation I get sent to me from the the conservative sites I have signed up for like red state...
That way they can publicly address the misinformation being passed around. -
I just sent them the photoshopped pic of the watermellons on the White House lawn...
no, not really -
BAD GNOME! -
I'm sure Obama has seen it before and said "ignorant crackers! I could see pineapples, but watermelons, really!"
-
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
