User Comments

1. 

   9/04/08

   clioandme

   We don't have an official response from McCain, but Palin has given us indications about her alienation from scientific thinking. She things creationism should be taught next to science in science class; she does not believe humans have anything to do with global warming. McCain does, but he chose Palin. There is that apparent issue with trying to ban books in the town where she was mayor. I suspect more will be out soon, unless the McCain keeps her away from the press, so that it can control the message.

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   1. 

      9/04/08

      jan4insight

      Oh, btw, Mark, I got the Obama badge on my blog. Thanks for giving me the link!
   2. 

      9/04/08

      jnvscnln

      Lets see .... We've taken 200 million years of carbon creation and burned through it in just 200 years ... Just might be a cause of global warming?
   3. 

      9/05/08

      CrotchetyOldMan

      The Facts: Palin said during her 2006 gubernatorial campaign that she would not push the state Board of Education to add creation-based alternatives to the state’s required curriculum, or look for creationism advocates when she appointed board members. She has kept this pledge, according to the Associated Press.
      
      Palin has spoken in favor of classroom discussions of creationism, in some cases. “I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum,” Palin told the Anchorage Daily News in a 2006 interview.
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Not exactly what you said, Mark.
   4. 

      9/06/08

      techfun

      Crotchety - Mark said she BELIEVES crationism should be taught along with evoliution which Mrs. Plain has confirmed - Mark said nothing about her acts as governor. When people agree to govern contrary to thier belifs they are compromising thier principles to some degree and it makes me question how much they will change based on expediency.
      
      The key point I take away from both Mark's and Mrs. Palin is that she would not step up to defend the rights of students and their parents to control the religious educations without the state's involvement.
      
      Teaching or even discussing the religious creationism in a science class in a school - unless its in a list of every other religions Creation story - is wrong. It belongs in social studies class if anywhere in a school.
2. 

   9/04/08

   jan4insight

   Palin is one of the types I was referring to when I wrote about fundamentalists who think science is against their "religion." It is so scary to think these types who virtually worship ignorance have such a hold on the country's imagination right now. I mean, when did being "American" come to mean keeping oneself - and one's children - willfully ignorant?

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   1. 

      9/05/08

      MadameX

      For as long as I can remember--and it's hardly limited to this context. So long as we say "people could get jobs if they wanted to work" and don't look at the facts, we don't have any responsibility to do anything about the fact that many people CAN'T get jobs...so long as we say "they should have read the contracts" and carefully avoid all of the news stories about subprime mortgage lenders admitting that they lied and switched paperwork, we can pretend that people are losing their homes through their own fault and its not our problem...willful ignorance is the American way of avoiding responsibility. This particular slice of it, I believe, has less to do with religious fundamentalism than it does with the well-established pattern: if we admit that we're causing global warming and admit to the risks associated with that, we're going to have to fix it. That will cost money and require us to give things up, and that's no good...so quick, everyone...cover your ears and sing very loudly.
   2. 

      9/05/08

      csiunatc

      To me its simple.
      
      
      Your signature IS on that paper, who put it there?
      Since when was it my responsibility to bail you out when you are too lazy to read for yourself?
      
      You should be entitled to read every document before you sign it. If you choose not to, well I'm sorry that you are stupid, But whats that got to do with me?
      If you AREN'T Allowed to read it. DON'T SIGN IT!.. if you do anyway.. Sorry that you are stupid.
      
      It's your own willful ignorance that got you into that trouble, don't call me ignorant when i want to hold you to it.
      
      If a bank or lender is dishonest, prove it and use the criminal system to get them where they belong.
      
      And yes. You are responsible to understand what you are getting yourself into. I don't want to pay for those that don't feel like educating themselves before they sign something.
   3. 

      9/05/08

      MadameX

      CSI, this is just a basic difference in world views. "Since when was it my responsibility...?" just isn't a concept that makes sense to me. Nor does the arrogant assumption that everyone should be obliged to be born with the same abilities that you have and, if he isn't, isn't worth the trouble. I'm at attorney; I've often had educated, professional people bring that kind of contract to me because they couldn't work out what it meant. If you believe that anyone who bothers has the capacity to understand language intentionally created to obfuscate--well, then, you're a perfect illustration of what I pointed out in my comment to Jan. The criminal justice system might put the people who defrauded you in jail, but it won't give you back your house or the money you invested...but I'm sure you know that. The easy, pat answers don't bear any relationship to the actual issues at hand, but are just one more way of screaming "It's not my problem" at the top of your lungs.
   4. 

      9/05/08

      csiunatc

      Here is a question for you.
      
      I don't care how uneducated or educated you are. If you are signing something as important as a house mortgage without consulting a lawyer...
      
      Being uneducated on legal matters is not a problem. Being too stupid to get a lawyer is.
      
      The question is, since when was ignorance a defense?
   5. 

      9/05/08

      MadameX

      Must be nice to live in a world where everyone can afford an attorney. And where every crime victim is actually at fault and deserves what he gets. Really alleviates any responsibility, doesn't it? We can extend this to anything...ten-year-olds who get offered drugs by dealers outside their schools should know better, so no need to worry about getting the dealers off the street--if they accept, that's their problem. And if women are stupid enough to get involved with violent men, then they deserve to die anyway, right? So no need wasting law enforcement time protecting them or funding shelters....
      
      Pretty soon, there's absolutely nothing in the world more pressing than what piece of electronic equipment you buy next. Nice, cushy place to be.
      
      (Jan, this is what I meant above)
   6. 

      9/06/08

      csiunatc

      Mad X
      
      If you can afford to buy a house. But can't afford to protect that investment by affording an attorney, your priorities are .. F___D..
      
      Crime Victim? Who is a victim? I'm talking about people who WILLINGLY sign papers they don't understand. Thats not a victim, thats just plain stupid.
      
      How the hell can you compare a house buyer to a 10 year old? and how can you compare a bank to a drug dealer?
      
      Your arguments have nothing to do with the matter and quite frankly baffles me as to why they even apply.
      
      You REALLY think these things are comparative?
3. 

   9/05/08

   csiunatc

   With regards to scientific thinking.
   
   I have no doubt that global warming is real. It scares the shit out of me.
   
   I am also convinced that human impact is a PART of it.
   
   I can however not determine how big that impact is. There are records of global warming in the past long before humans had impacts on it. And some of those records show faster warmups than we are seeing now.
   
   Volcanic eruption, Sunspots, and other natural events have an impact too. And its hard to get any clear indicator where the major problem is. Some very credible reports from the geological archives show that natural events might be the main culprit here.
   
   I believe in that we have to do something, but i don't believe that we have to rush headlong into doing something and choosing "anything" just because we are already in an energy crisis. And such actions could be detrimental to an economy.

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   1. 

      9/05/08

      RenalFailure

      Considering we don't have any control over volcanoes, sunspots, and other natural events, wouldn't it behoove the human race to adjust and adapt the things we actually do have control over?
      
      And obviously global warming doesn't scare the shit out of you that badly if you're content with a "wait and see approach." Like Stewie from Family Guy said: Jim Henson had a wait and see approach, and now look what we've got, Muppets that don't sound right.
   2. 

      9/05/08

      csiunatc

      My "wait and see" attitude isn't wait and see per say. Its find out what DOES make an impact.
      
      Ban cars, kill all the cows, and shut of all power production and factories that produce greenhouse gases. Sure it will have an impact, but you just killed the entire country.
      
      The choices made have to be balanced around what can be managed, and I for one think that we need to consider what and where to do the adjustments before we do them. Not just blindly scream "DO SOMETHING - ANYTHING' and hope that its enough.
      
      I see too many people getting on far too many bandwagons about what should be done, and no one has any clear and concise numbers as to what that will actually accomplish.
   3. 

      9/05/08

      RenalFailure

      Unless you can point out anyone of importance who has said "Ban cars, kill all the cows, and shut of all power production and factories that produce greenhouse gases" I'm just going to assume that you're making stuff up.
      
      The key phrase is "of importance."
4. 

   9/05/08

   Theresa111

   Getting back to that paper signing ... especially at Closing, on a home purchase. When the papers, and there is a large pile of them, are placed before you, the person placing them before you describes what each one is. I, for one, have no intention of reading through the entire process, as most 95% of home buyers don't. However, if I found out that the person I trusted had deceived me about what I was signing ... well let's just say they wouldn't ever do that again!

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   1. 

      9/05/08

      csiunatc

      that certainly is your prerogative. But don't come whining that others should bail you out because you didn't read the document before you signed it.
5. 

   9/05/08

   RMania

   So many people in this country do not have nearly enough respect for science or an understanding of the principles behind it. They do not seem to realize how much it pervades their own lives, allowing them to live the way they do.

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6. 

   9/06/08

   210betty

   I have no problem with every single idea put in front of children, however I do have a problem with having someone use their own personal opinion and telling them what is correct and what isn't.
   
   That being said if you want your children taught creationism, then send them to church. If not then let them learn a little science and have them form their own opinion. Believe it or not they can do that.

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