Political Discussions
The Prize Fight: Palin v. Biden
Posted by TheBigRuski • 9/27/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: Debate, election, Joe Biden, presidential debate, sarah palin, vice president
OK...we've had the undercard, McCain v. Obama...it was a decent debate (fight). You've had a chance to score it...if not go to that other thread in this forum: www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/who-won-the-1st-presidential-deb...
Now, anyone want to give opening odds on the Main Event? Barracuda v. Old Dawg? Pit Bull v. Smokin' Joe?
Thursday is the debate...watch the ratings on the greatest match since Ali v. Frazer, The Greatest v. Smokin' Joe Frazer, Pretty Boy v. the Dog...
Palin...Biden....you decide!
User Comments
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You've got to be kidding about this being a fight. Sarah Palin couldn't even answer softball questions from Katie Couric. The fact that the McCain camp all but refused to let her debate if she actually had to go head to head against Biden should be a big indicator of how she will do here. This isn't even going to be a fun train wreck to watch.-
I wouldn't hit the snooze button!
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What do you mean they won't let her go head to head with Biden? How is the debate format going to work different for her?
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I think Biden will easily win the debate... especially if there are any curve balls.-
Lulled into submission!
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It will be like stumbling upon an accident. Nothing to see here, folks! Please move along!-
Hah! Like I said, watch the TV ratings!
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I so agree that it will be painful.
Last night when it was all over, my jaw ached from being clenched with anxiety as those two talked. I realized I was biting down with tension waiting for something horrible to happen.
I expect I'll be doubled over in knots after the VP's get done.
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It's interesting that Sarah Palin was nowhere to be found last night after the debate. Joe Biden made the rounds on most networks and cable channels. He offered opinion and answered questions. It seems the McCain camp is still worried about how things might go if Palin had to go off script.
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McCain is running the worst campaign since....I don't know what.
I agree with the initial shielding of Palin...but beyond Thursday...he needs to break her loose or there will be too much skepticism.
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I will be surprised if they let her debate, if they do let her debate it is only because she is in some chamber right now being electronically programmed.
I don't know why she wasn't commenting last night on the debates.
I think they will ditch her, at least most Republicans I know are rather furious at her being on the ticket and would feel better were she gone.
If they debate, and she does well, then really they ought to dump Biden, but I just can't see it working out well for her.-
Yep, she could just be a one-hit wonder. BTW the "hit" is her convention speech in which she tore the Dems a new...
IMHO
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Just like last night, those who like Palin will think she did great and those who like Biden will think he did great.
Biden will have a harder time of it for two reasons. First, most expect him to be more knowledgable. He not only has to beat Palin but to cover the point spread.
Second, if he gets too sarcastic, which he does a lot, many will rush to defend poor Palin (crybaby).-
Very good observations! A lot of people still don't know Biden too well...they may not realize this guy is Mr. stick-his-foot-in-his-mouth.
My main point on this thread is that this should provide good theater! We'll be getting a lot of hype in the next few days (which I admit to) and we shall see how much drama actually occurs.
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Palin might not know anything, but she might do better than people expect. All she has to do is bait and switch, dodge the questions, ignore any challenges from Biden, pretend she's in an alternative universe. Her supporters will praise her all the more for such behavior, and Biden will be an elitist who knows something, apparently a handicap for a VP candidate.-
Good points...but did you know there is such a thing as an "alternative universe?"
I'd talk some more on the subject, but then I would be accused of going off topic and....(gulp!)...EVANGELIZING! -
I agree. I think the idea that this is a slam-dunk for the Democrats is short-sighted and surprising in the wake of the response we've seen to Palin thus far. Yes, she's unqualified. Yes, Biden has several hundred times the relevant knowledge that she does. But people seem to like her, and in the bizarre world we live in, that seems to be more important than facts, ability or issues.
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I bet that Palin is being trained in a couple of techniques right now. Primarily they are studying how to get under Biden's skin.
This won't be about the issues at all. It will be about maneuvering. Biden will play "stump the barracuda" and Palin will be playing irritate the old guy.
I'm guessing the plan is to tick him off and then stand back and watch him self destruct. As soon as he goes on the "Biden foot-in-mouth tour '08" It's over.-
And then we get to sit back and wait to see how those same techniques work out when she tries them out on foreign world leaders and such, since that's all she's got.
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I still have some faith in Gwen Iffel's ability to ask good questions. I also have faith in Republicans to set their expectations low for Palin and cry foul if they sniff just a hint of arrogance from Biden of the kind that McCain showed towards Obama last night, cause, you know, double standards are where it's at now.
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"I bet that Palin is being trained in a couple of techniques right now."
Like the Five-Point Palm Exploding Heart? Or the crane kick?
The fact that you wrote that sentence in all seriousness is both comedic and tragic. Here's a novel idea, instead of learning some techniques to just skate by, how about she actually learn what the damn issues are? How about getting educated on topics instead of spilling out any random series of words like she was Miss South Carolina? -
Tiffany,
I love your reply to this and I second it.
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I don't know which will happen later: Palin giving a town-hall meeting open to questions from the public, or Palin winning a debate.-
My guess: town hall (with all the participants carefully screened, a la Bush, of course!)
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In reality the "debates" are nothing more than a media fed event. They really mean nothing. You learn nothing from watching them and they tell you nothing about what type of president the debaters will become.
You have all been brainwashed to the point of sardonic humor. -
It feels shameful to admit this, but I will probably watch on Thursday, even though I know it will be awful. Just how awful it will get I will have to see for myself.
I imagine it will be like one of those old episodes of Cheers (with Kirsty Alley) where the entire episode is one long painful embarrassment... -
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As much as it pains me to say it, I wouldn't underestimate Sarah Palin. Granted she does not do well with interviews...or off the cuff answers. She does, however, seem to be good at getting some zingers in. I actually somewhat agree with CSI in that Palin will just try to anger Biden. I think that Biden will win if, and only if, he keeps his cool. And, of course, Biden must walk a tightrope so as not to appear "sexist."
On a side note, I hope that Palin doesn't do that creepy McCain smile :-) -
Palin will and should get stomped BUT, you never know what may happen. I mean think about it, Biden could smirk or laugh and then say sweetie or honey are you serious, kinda like you do when you are talking to a small town waitress and next thing you now he is being called a sexist. -
This is turning into a really bad spin off of reality TV... who should get kicked of the island. I wish they would do physical challenges in these things. I'm not being ridiculous... they are. This is a circus! -
Tina Fey and Amy Poehler last night: www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704042/
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Double post
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Here it is again in case you missed it: www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704042/
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Wait, I'm a little confused. Is the appropriate link www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704042/ ?
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Holy moly.. She needs to send her jeans back to the 80's and He needs to go sue Mcdonalds.
Chicken v. egg... Does being a Democrat make you ugly or are people democrats because they are ugly?
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Ugly? I just need a little color.
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Holy moly.. She needs to send her jeans back to the 80's and He needs to go sue Mcdonalds.
Wow. That sounds pretty elitist. Why do you hate America? -
Actually I love it. But I know you wouldn't know what that looks like if it slapped you in the face, so i won't hold the mistake against you.
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I'm just saying... Making fun of the way people dress and all. That's a fashion victim elitist sort of thing.
Are you wearing a flag pin?
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Democrat Spam.. why am i not surprised..
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Actually, CSI, I can't speak for anyone else but I was just razzing you. I don't really see SNL clips as a means of advancing a political cause, and I haven't even watched this particular one.
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When the actress in question makes a clear statement as to who they support. (or more exactly asking people not to vote for the person she is playing) It becomes less of a satire and more of a cause.
First Oprah, now Tina. Packed in with Pamela Anderson of course, If Tina had just kept her mouth closed, it would still be funny. Now SNL is just another platform masquerading as something else. -
Ah, quit complaining, lighten up and have a few laughs. Or...just don't watch it. Simple as that.
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I think I shall throw a party for the occasion.
And while Palin is a fast talker and probably good with one liners and sarcastic insults and insinuations - she won't have anything of substance to offer.
The fact that they reigned her back in after a few, short, BAD interviews is telling. No teleprompter, and no pre-written answers = train wreck for her. -
It will be a smoking debate where she will shore up McCain's position among the evangelicals and conservatives staying very focused on getting live wires into any conservative voters she missed. She will focus more on getting a "family values" message across than debating.
People like her because she appears authentic and is authentic in her beliefs. I have no doubt she believes in what she is saying. They also like her because of her personality.
I am fairly sure Biden will take the gloves off and ask lots of questions about things which have not been asked before, church and state, gays, social issues, stuff which has not been touched before.
She could very will motivate her base, but if she is not careful antagonize a lot of people.
I think it will be much better than the first debate. I don't like Sarah Palin, for a lot of reasons. I think it could be much more interesting than the first debate which was too tame.
She could win in her message, but lose in the debate.-
"A smoking debate"? You heard it here first folks!
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Great analysis!
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The "referee" for the main card is apparently "on the take!"
Opinion piece by Michelle Malkin:
Palin/Biden Debate “Moderator” in the Tank for Obama
michellemalkin.com/2008/09/30/a-debate-âmoderatorâ-in-the-tank-fo...-
Typical distraction material. This is the setup so that if Palin stumbles, the right-wing talk-radio crowd can blame it all on their boogeyman - "THE MEDIA"!
So predictable. -
No "setup" necessary! It's fact.
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Alex,
That is a serious accusation against one of the premier journalists in the business. Michelle Malkin should seriously think about making such an ill-advised claim, as should you.
I have never heard Gwen Ifill express sympathy for one side or another. Have you watched her before? She hosts Washington Week; I would highly recommend it to you.
Here's the link:
www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/video/ -
Don't expect too much out of Michelle Malkin!
She and the others who are pushing this non-story can't and won't detail exactly what kind of "conflict of interest" there is here. This is simply an easy way to shift attention to the "media bias" nonsense if/when Palin stumbles tomorrow night.
These people ALWAYS make "the media" the issue because it's easier to shoot the messenger than deal with what is actually happening. -
This from Doubleday about the nature of Gwen Ifill's upcoming book. It sounds like a serious piece, and though Obama is a part of the overall topic, he is not the centerpiece.
Ifill argues that the Black political structure formed during the Civil Rights movement is giving way to a generation of men and women who are the direct beneficiaries of the struggles of the 1960s. She offers incisive, detailed profiles of such prominent leaders as Newark Mayor Cory Booker, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick, and U.S. Congressman Artur Davis of Alabama, and also covers up-and-coming figures from across the nation. Drawing on interviews with power brokers like Senator Obama, former Secretary of State Colin Powell, Vernon Jordan, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, and many others, as well as her own razor-sharp observations and analysis of such issues as generational conflict and the "black enough" conundrum, Ifill shows why this is a pivotal moment in American history.
It is to this that Ms. Malkin was pointing as evidence of bias. -
See my comment below...the book seems like a great piece, but my point is that she is too close to the subject (one of the candidates she is moderating).
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Michelle Malkin is an Asian Ann Coulter. She says outrageous things just to get ratings.
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Michelle Malkin want's to be the next Ann Coulter. Her blog reads like a trashy gossip tabloid and her opinions are not even worth consideration.... unless you are on the right and want to hear her hateful, distorted views.
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the book seems like a great piece, but my point is that she is too close to the subject (one of the candidates she is moderating).
Actually, the debate is between Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware and Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska.
Barack Obama will not be in the room. -
Opinion piece by Michelle Malkin:
Emphasis on "opinion." -
Here's my opinion piece on the debate.
griperblade.blogspot.com/2008/10/setting-bar-low.html
I think the very best McCain-Palin can get here is a tie. And a tie isn't good enough right now. -
Not fer nuthin but Malkin is a two bit hack of a journalist wannabe with serious ethical issues. She has advocated violence against those with different opinions, and even released person information of a family who was fighting for the SChip bill - and encouraged her readers to harass and intimidate the family (with a sick and dying child) because she didn't like what they were asking for.
She makes Coulter look like Mother Teresa, and has a quarter of the brains.
Malkin, in other words, is a dimwitted asshole with a mean streak and pension for encouraging violence towards others, simply for having a different opinion.
Do not take what she writes eve with a grain of salt. She's so beyond biased and idiotic that reading her is painful.
Feel free to IM for the rest of her "story".
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What is fact? That she's going to rig the debate? Got any proof of that? If not, then this is yet another "run against the media" tactic by the right-wing. Will Gwen Ifill use her stealth trickery to fool Palin and the voters? LOL.
So let's hear it: What exactly is the conflict of interest here?-
I provided a link to the piece...and in a nutshell, she spent several months close to the Obama campaign researching for her book, which is highly pro-Obama. I'm not saying a pro-Obama stance is wrong...or the book is bad or something, but the moderator is too close to the source!
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TBR,
Do you really think Palin needs any help blowing this? -
TheBigRuski, you're still not telling us what the substantive conflict of interest is.
I think it's pretty obvious that there isn't one, which is why it's also obvious that this is nothing more than a setup for the tired "media bias" cry that we'll here IF Palin stumbles tomorrow night. -
One more time...when you spend several months researching a book and in doing so get close to a political campaign, that alone could be concieved as a conflict of interest. You are serving as a moderator in a debate with the VP of the same campaign. To not even point out the connection would be wrong.
Malkin and others are calling for a disclaimer at the beginning of the debate.
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These people would trash their own mothers for political purposes. They're exactly what's wrong with politics.
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I don't agree with trash talking...or arrogance...but, I think there's a point to be made that when someone in the role of moderator is looking to profit from her literary association with one of candidates, that's a little too close.
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Well, if there's a point to be made, make it. What exactly do you think she is going to do in the debate that constitutes a conflict of interest?
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A conflict of interest is established before an event.
It's not a given that she will skew the moderation, but her literary connection to Obama may do any one of a number of things.
Potentially...
Ask follow-up questions that are tougher on Palin.
Not ask tougher follow-up questions of Biden.
Throw softball questions at Biden.
Throw screwgie questions at Palin.
And so on... -
I will preface this by stating, plainly, that I'm messing with you, but I found one of your statements gave me the giggles.
You are worried that Gwen Ifill might possibly toss Biden a few softball questions... Hmmm...
You mean, like, what newspaper do you read?
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This from The Swamp blog at the Chicago Tribune:
Malkin's concerns are understandable. But here's where I think she doesn't have a whole lot to worry about.
Ifill is going to be under the microscope. Every question she asks and the way she asks them will be apparent for all to see. If she appears to be favoring Obama, we'll see it and she knows that.
She also must know by now that she is coming under fire for moderating the debate and having an Obama-related book in the works. If anything, I'm guessing she'll bend over backwards to show deference to Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. Malkin may be trying to ensure Ifill's attention is focused on this issue by raising the battle cry.
I'm guessing if you examined all the reporting by journalists who have had roles in debates over the decades, you would find a lot of journalism that would raise red flags for critics on one side of the political spectrum or other.
But there are differences between journalists. There are the straight-ahead journalists like Ifill who report the news plain with analysis and there are the opinion makers like columnists, who openly choose a side.
If an obvious partisan were selected to moderate a debate, Paul Krugman, for instance, then it would make more sense for Malkin to run around with her hair on fire. At the very least, at the start of the debate, it might be advisable if Ifill acknowledges the controversy and assures the audience that she's not taking sides.
Ifill is a professional who has moderated past high-level debates before who will play it about as straight as anyone in Washington could.
I have a doctor who is an open partisan Democrat. His father was in the Kennedy Administration. But he's a good internist who treats Democrats and Republicans alike, including members of the Bush Administration. He's a professional who does his job.
So is Ifill.
Here's the link:
www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/10/gwen_ifill_hit_for_obama_b...-
Iffel's book has been a matter of public record for a long time now (www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/1008/Ifills_book_was_no_secret.html). Sounds like a few Republicans are getting cold feet and are trying to inoculate themselves against disaster. Iffel's got heaps of integrity, so they needn't worry, unless it is biased to ask the same tough questions of each canddiate.
Apropos Palin, McCain said something pretty funny. He says he has turned to Palin for advice on foreign policy (www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14170.html).
But before we write her off, let's remember that famous body language of hers, which makes some of us squirm, and makes others swoon (www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/artsandliving/style/features/2008/rhetoric/ga...). (My apologies to anyone offended by my already having dropped this last link in another thread.) -
Well, thank goodness the doctor is kind enough to treat Dems and Reps alike....geeeesh! How kind!
It would be soooooo hard to give the same medical help to a ....gulp... member of the Bush administration!
What kind of crap is this!?!?!
The Chicago Tribune story made a good case until that closing! -
Alex,
You are really gunning for a fight today. I think you are in love...
The point is that it's *not* difficult for someone to do their job, regardless of party affiliation. Gwen Ifill is at the top of her profession for a reason.
Maybe you ought to step back from this a little.
Go read the paper. -
@midwestmom
You are really gunning for a fight today.
And, as always it appears the gun is loaded with blanks.
Ifill will be asking the same questions of both so how can a presumed conflict of interest arise? and McCain has said: I have “confidence” in Ifill
Sen. John McCain says he is confident PBS reporter Gwen Ifill will “do a totally objective job” moderating Thursday’s vice presidential debate despite authoring a new book that is reportedly favorable toward Sen. Barack Obama.
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From above...
One more time...when you spend several months researching a book and in doing so get close to a political campaign, that alone could be concieved as a conflict of interest. You are serving as a moderator in a debate with the VP of the same campaign. To not even point out the connection would be wrong.
Malkin and others are calling for a disclaimer at the beginning of the debate.-
Know what smells bad to me? The fact that this information has been available for *months*, but suddenly a few Republicans get cold feet and decide to look for scapegoats. The time to address this issue was months ago, not now. Ifell was doing her research out in the open for all to see. Her book is listed on Amazon. Get over it.
Also, how on earth is she going to play favorites anyway. Like Jim Lehrer, she's going to ask each each candidate the same questions. The order will be determined by a coin toss, and she'll make sure each gets the same amount of time to talk.
You wanna talk about this? Set all our clocks and calendars back to when this was news. Team McCain obviously didn't do its homework. Nor did its surrogates. Get over it already. Or complain to the McCain campaign, which can only focus on one stunt at a time.
Also, since when does a book about politics and race have to be partisan? Do you know that's the case? Or is writing about politics and race an act of partisanship in and of itself? That sure sounds like what a few conservative blowhards are saying. Sounds kinda, almost racist to me. -
You've obviously never watched the Jim Lehrer News Hour. Gwen Ifill is an honest journalist. But like I said, republicans would trash their own mothers for political purposes. Why wasn't this an issue a few months ago when the debates were planned? If she was biased, she wouldn't wait until after the elections to release her book.
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Those of you who do not know Gwen Ifell can check out her work here: www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/
You'll notice her about page talks about her interest in the question of politics and race: www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/gwen/ -
@markstoneman...you proved Malkin's point that the racist accusations would fly now.
When was it ever "news" until Malkin brought it up?
Maybe it should have been news back then...but it wasn't.
I know she is a respected journalist.
We shall see Thursday, I guess. BTW...PBS can be decidedly liberal. -
Why did it have to be "news"? If Team McCain had wanted to, they merely had to spend about 30 seconds on Google to see what Gwen Ifell's been up to lately. It was that simple. Obviously McCain either did not do his homework or he does not think it's an issue. Either way, water under the bridge.
About race, since you seem to have missed my point: I said the assumption that a book about race and politics wold be a partisan book in favor of Obama was questionable at best. I'm talking about some would-be McCain surrogates making assumptions here, and you know what happens when you (a generic you, not necessarily you personally) assume . . .
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From a news commentator that happens to be a Democrat and black:
"Clearly her books aren't going to do as well unless Obama wins, so it looks like she has some investment, literally, in one candidate or the other. And she's supposed to be sitting there as a neutral arbiter during the debate," said NPR's Juan Williams, a FOX News contributor. "I think the world of Gwen Ifill but I know there's a perception problem."
I couldn't have said it better myself. So, if there is a perception problem...then a disclaimer needs to be given before or after the debate from the moderator.-
To even pretend that this person isn't biased is ridiculous.
I can only imagine what we would hear if the situation was the other way around. -
Do you know her work? Have you watched her past debates? Have you seen her in action on Washington Week or the News Hour? Maybe you saw her Washington Week special in St. Paul or Denver? Ifell never gives her own opinion. She asks questions.
And for God's sake, Palin is going to do fine. Quit worrying. -
Queried about it, John McCain expressed confidence in Ifill.
"I think that Gwen Ifill is a professional, and I think she will do a totally objective job because she is a highly-respected professional," McCain told Fox News's Carl Cameron.
voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/01/ifills_book_is_no_secret.htm...
Since McCain has been a regular on The News Hour, where's the concern that they will show bias towards him? How can they not be biased towards him? He's almost a staff member there! I, for one, am totally outraged the debates will be moderated by three people with obvious bias towards McCain. -
Got this email from my former college paper advisor, who holds a USC doctorate, and led the paper to national recognition.
Here's a snippet:
Clearly a conflict of interest. And even if you could argue that she is such a professional that she would be "fair," even the APPEARANCE of a conflict of interest used to (key words, "used to") be enough to choose another person to write a story, or in this case, moderate a debate. -
And even if you could argue that she is such a professional that she would be "fair," even the APPEARANCE of a conflict of interest used to (key words, "used to") be enough to choose another person to write a story, or in this case, moderate a debate.
Isn't that a sort of insane standard? Using this, McCain-Palin could use even the thinnest appearance of conflict to eliminate every possible moderator until the only possibilities left are Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly. If there's an actual CoI, then fine. If there's only the appearance of a CoI, then I think the logical response would be "you're going to have to do better than that."
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Mark, you know you'd be screaming bloody murder if the situation was reversed.
If an author has a book coming out that basically relies on Obama winning to be successful. I mean, will she rename the book "The End of Obama" if he loses?
To pretend there isn't a vested interest in Obama/Biden winning this election for her is ludicrous. At least redeem your own credibility by not pretending to be oblivious to this.-
Her book will be just as relevant no matter what the result. It covers more than one politician.
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There used to be a thing called "journalism ethics."
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In case anyone missed Ben's link above, here's another one in which McCain states that Ifell is a professional. www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/1008/McCain_Gwen_Ifill_is_a_profess...
I cannot remember a single presidential debate (as opposed to that one case in the primary season this year) where I thought the moderator was a problem. I have my favorites, but they all do their job well.
I notice those crying foul haven't actually owned up to knowing Ifell's work. Get a grip. Take some deep breaths. If you're that worried, just what does that say about Palin? Come on. She isn't a porcelain doll, you know. She's tough. She can take it. Jeez. Who'd a thought Democrats had to calm the nerves of Republicans?-
See above comment from Journalism teacher and my former advisor. BS on no one "owning up" to knowing Ifells's work...most of us know she is a respected and professional journalist.
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I'm not talking about her reputation. Do you know her actual work? Do you watch News Hour or Washington Week? Can you recall her moderation of the last VP debate?
And do you know what this book is about? I still haven't heard anything to suggest a conflict of interest, unless knowing something about one's area of expertise is a conflict of interest. -
I have not...other than to see her a couple of times on TV...and my impression is that she is a professional.
BUT..,The issue is not her reputation. Not her actual work. Not her News Hour or Washington Week work or her moderation of the last VP debate.
Yes, I have read several stories about what the book is about. The cover teasers alone show a favorable lean toward Obama.
As I have mentioned, it is about what used to be considered as a given...JOURNALISTIC INTEGRITY.
You learn this in Law School AND Journalism School. She has a connection to Obama because of writing a book that favors Obama. Even the APPEARANCE of having a posible vested interest in the subject matter (Obama's campaign) USED TO BE enough reason to AT LEAST give a disclaimer. -
So this is one thing that McCain and I will have to agree on, and I guess he and I will have to disagree with you. This campaign is so full of ironies.
By the way, I still haven't heard anyone address the timing of this "discovery". -
You learn this in Law School AND Journalism School. She has a connection to Obama because of writing a book that favors Obama.
Her book is about race and politics after Obama. Saying this favors Obama is like saying any book about global warming and politics is pro-climate change. -
Her book is (at least in part) about Obama. One could argue that she will sell a whole lot more copies if Obama wins.
IMO, she will do a fine job. The only issue I have with it is the right wingers are going to use it as an excuse if Palin performance is pitiful. Kind of like them complaining about Couric's "gotcha" questions, e.g. what sort of magazines/newspapers do you read? -
So how's about we use the same standard for moderators that McCain used for his VP pick? No qualifications are the best qualification?
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TBR said, "^ now your making comments like a little kid."
You spelled "you're" wrong. Neener, neener.
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McCain is kinda dumb...also, running the worst campaign in recent memory.
The latest I heard/read/understand from reading internet/radio/newspaper reports and articles on the discovery issue is that SHE did not reveal it until this surfaced yesterday.-
You "heard"?
Do I have to repeat my comments and links from yesterday?
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Anybody want to chill out and try these cookies during the debate tonight? nylady.edublogs.org/2008/10/02/cookies-for-tonights-debate/-
Are you hosting a VP debate party? Great post!
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Nifty!
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McCain looks like a vision of loveliness, doesn't he?!?
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Definitely biased against McCain. Though the smiling McCain is pretty creepy too, so maybe I'm jumping the gun.
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According to Joe Lieberman, Palin's big strength is her ignorance.
Andy Barr
1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman thinks that in order for Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to beat her Democratic rival, Sen. Joe Biden, in tonight’s debate, she needs to keep it from turning into an “IQ test.”
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“What she needs to do tonight is get this public consideration of her back to who she is and her strong points and, frankly, get it away from being a, kind of, IQ test — she's plenty smart — getting it away from being a, sort of, final college exam,” Lieberman said on MSNBC
Lieberman added though that despite Palin not knowing “every detail,” he expects that voters will respond well to the Alaska governor.
“Whether she can answer every detailed question, I don't think that ultimately matters to the American people,” the Connecticut senator added. “She doesn't know every detail, all the questions senators deal with, but, frankly, that's her strength.”
“I think the point is, who is she as a person? I think that's what people are ultimately looking for,” Lieberman said.
The McCain surrogate predicted that voters will see “a typical middle-class American who got angry at her government and decided to get involved.” -
Who knows? If you bring the cookies, I'll host the debate party. Have fun everyone. BTW -- there will be liveblogging about the debate from MediaBistro tonight if anyone wants to tune in. Not a plug -- I just subscribe to their site. Here's the link: www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/election_08/debate_liveblog_with_rachel_skla...
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YOU are rockin' it! ....all prepared for the VP rager...and all!
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Have fun folks. I'm sure it won't be boring, though it's a darn shame there won't be any back and forth with this short answer format.
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This should be a very interesting debate. Both candidates have their blatant weaknesses, and it will come down the person who can most deftly expose that weakness and exploit it.
Obama picked Biden for one reason -- to be an attack dog. He's got the advantage in a big way tonight. -
Politico is reporting that Palin plans to after Biden. I think his plan is to go after McCain. I thought that going after the top of the ticket was the whole point, but we'll see.
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Why wasn’t Palin given a chance to rebut Biden’s smart ars “bridge to nowhere” comment on health care?
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she's so dumb she's going to explode. she can't answer questions, she just babbeling what she remembers. and if she's going to say Maverick one more time i'm going to take a dump on my laptop
in fact She's regurgitating rehearsed phrases and telling americans want they want to hear.. That could VERY EASILY work better than Biden's reasoned arguments. Especially when she's not answering the questions and just staring into the camera and hitting talking points.. it'll work on most people -
Gwen Ifill did a great job!
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So are you gonna start watching Washington Week now?
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I rarely watch anything regularly on TV. I flip back and forth between CNN and FOX, watch Seinfeld reruns, and bits and pieces of pro and college games with an emphasis on the Lakers and the Angels. That's it!
Oh, and sometimes my girlfriend makes me watch The Bachelor. -
Look out, Alex. If she's having you watch the bachelor, she may be hinting at something. (ha!)
Seriously, if you want to broaden your horizons and get a good, short dose of the best in reporting, you should check out Washington Week on PBS on friday. It is a wrap-up of the week in news, with reporters from a variety of publications on the left and right talking about the major political news stories of the week.
I think you would like it. -
Thanks, MM!
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It's a very efficient way to get an intelligent wrap-up.
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Both candidates did well. Biden's greater experience was evident in his answers though.
Regardless, this debate will be quickly forgotten as eyes turn to the House of Representatives and the economy.-
Oh no it wont.. this one will go down as the most important VP debate in history more than likely.
It will be incredibly interesting to see if the polls react to it. I'm betting they will. -
I agree. I think polls will show that Biden won, but I don't think this one will change anything. I thought Biden should play for a tie -- he did a little better than that, but no real fireworks. Palin managed not to swallow her own head, so the conservative pundits will all say she was a great success, but I thought she was contrived and stuck on perky, like a morning news meteorologist. She dodged questions and, at one point when she was given the opportunity to defend her position, she just repeated what she'd just said.
Point-wise and poll-wise, Biden. In the grand scheme of things though, goose egg.
Debate transcript here, BTW: www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Transcript+of+Palin%... -
You've got a point about the economy and "bail out' news, Polybore. I cannot remember the last time that Congress or the president did anything more than mere posturing right before a presidential election. This is a highly unusual situation. Hard to keep up with it all.
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I agree with ttiger. She's spitting out stuff that was fed to her, like a baby. My personal opinion is that Biden was better, but that's just me.
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Biden did a pretty good job attacking the "maverick" gimmick. Maverick is to McCain/Palin as 9/11 is to Giuliani: just a slogan. Hi! We're mavericks! Hi! Nice to meet you! We're mavericks! Give me a break.
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While Palin managed to let people know that even BIden thinks Obama is a dangerous Option for president and that Biden was willing to run with McCain..
She also did a good job of proving that there is no real change with Obama, unless you consider always voting with the party "real change"
Brilliant! -
Palin did a good job overall, but to call it "brilliant" is really going out on a limb.
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Republicans have very low standards when it comes to their own.
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Maybe, but its still infinitely higher than the zero standards for picking Democratic presidential candidates.
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Biden did a pretty good job attacking the "maverick" gimmick. Maverick is to McCain/Palin as 9/11 is to Giuliani: just a slogan. Hi! We're mavericks! Hi! Nice to meet you! We're mavericks! Give me a break.
I just caught a bit of CNN's replay of the debate. They've got this focus group dial thing running at the bottom of the screen -- dial up if you like what you're hearing, down if you don't.
While I was watching, Palin used the "maverick" label twice. Both times the group dialed way down. It's not working. It tickles peoples BS sensors, apparently. -
Hi! We're mavericks! Hi! Nice to meet you! We're mavericks!
LOL! I like that!
Absolutely correct about the maverick mantra....almost as bad as the "George Bush is dumb" mantra.
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reality check so far.
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/02/eveningnews/realitycheck/main4496799.sht... -
I think Republicans can breath easier. Maybe they'll give Palin a longer leash now.
I don't think this was a game-changing debate. Palin exceeded people's low expectations, and Biden pulled off the trick he needed to, which was attack McCain, speak to key policy points, and at the same time not act arrogant or condescending towards Palin. He also had that moment of clear emotions that was clearly not scripted. Those of who favor Obama have every reason to keep favoring him. Those who favor McCain have no reason to drop him, if Palin's lack of qualifications haven't bothered them thus far.
One thing to remember: these were really short answers, and Palin only gave pre-rehearsed answers to what she wanted to talk about.-
She didn't come across as presidential at all, which I guess doesn't bother some people.
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Not to you and not to me, but who knows what undecided voters are thinking. We're in new territory here in terms of the mixture of populism and the way she uses gender and that whole folksy thing.
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One scary moment, an VP candidate barely, at best, qualified talking about expanding the power and independence of the office of the VP. If there is any doubt I am talking about Palin.-
Thanks for reminding me of that. She basically said she saw the VP's constitutional position as Cheney does. Not good.
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That was my reaction as well.
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I love Biden's statement characterizing Cheney as the worst VP ever. Not sure of the exact quote. But if elected Palin could challenge him for that position if she could figure out a way actually have an impact.
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Cheney is evil and smart. I wouldn't say Palin is evil. Or smart.
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Could someone tell when being a maverick became a good thing?
To me a maverick is good at ruffling feathers and pissing people off, a loner, someone who goes against the flow regardless of the issues.
Maybe at the beginning of association with a group being seen as a maverick could be neutral, but if they are effective at creating change as a maverick - they are labeled as a visionary, or if not effective but well intentioned a voice of conscience within the group, or similar terms. I can not see how being seen as a maverick after decades of involvement can be a positive-
They nailed this on SNL last weekend. Had McCain calling himself completely unreliable.
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Wasn't Maverick the handle Tom Cruise had in top gun? Some people just like a bad boy.
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Links to analysis from both sides of this country's political divide: www.realclearpolitics.com/2008/10/03/index.html
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Heavens! -
I thought Palin's presence and delivery was pretty good - a little too 'folksy' for me though. I think the expectation was so low that the only way was up. I'm sure Republicans are happy with her. I did notice that she danced around a few questions and responded to others in a rehearsed manner.
Biden actually surprised me a bit. I figured he would do well, but he did a bit better than I expected. His answers demonstrated his years of experience and seemed quite thorough. He kept up the attack on McCain, but acknowledged his strengths several times.
All and all it seemed like a draw with Biden doing slightly better. -
I agree with satijournal. Palin is neither evil nor smart. Just good at memorization. Let her take the SATs over again. Maybe she'll do better this time. I'd like to see her tackle "Jeopardy." "I'll take Polar Bears for $200, Alex."
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You see...for some people...folksy and pleasing to the eye will simply always be dumb.
Although she's only a journalism major, who happened to become a mayor and governor, she's not dumb....
Factual knowledge does not always equate to wisdom.
But, then again, I don't think Bush is dumb either. (and I know all the anti-Bush "arguments" already, so save it) If you're happy with having spent the last 8 years of your life hating on a president...so be it. -
"You see...for some people...folksy and pleasing to the eye will simply always be dumb."
Nice excuse, but the one has nothing to do with the other. A person could be folksy and pleasing to the eye and speak in simple language and still have a clue what she was talking about. While it's true that factual knowledge doesn't necessarily equate with intelligence or common sense, holding yourself out as "ready" (in even more dramatic and overconfident terms) to take on an office at the level of the Vice Presidency WITHOUT any substantive knowledge is certainly reflective of a lack of both. -
Oh, ya! That's a "given!" No intelligence or common sense there!
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BTW...seems like the "Prize Fight" did not disappoint! Judging by the crowd reaction at the end of the debate and by all the aftershock, it was a good show for all!
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Great prize fight, BigRuski. Lots of fun. You'll have to come up with another one. Here's an interesting column to read that basically says: if Palin didn't win decisively last night, then it's too little/too late for the Republicans. I guess only time will tell.
timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2008/10/the-conventiona.html-
McCain is on the ropes and Palin never was or is going to save him.
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