Political Discussions
The Subversion of Democracy
Posted by Agit8r • 7/09/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: cia, not enumerated in the constitution, spooks, the guys who sold stinger missles to osama bin laden
CIA has been lying to congress since 2001, directly in opposition to the tenets of representative government! X(
news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20090709/pl_bloomberg/avp991mwyfpe
Epic fail by the previous administration 
User Comments
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This is the accusation from some in the Democratic Party, but isn't this version of history still disputed? Far be it from me to want to defend the Bush administration or hurt Democrats who are in a position to do good work now, but I was under the impression that far too many people, including Democrats, were far too taken in by the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld image of the world, at least during the first few years after 9/11. Isn't this story a little too convenient for the Democrats?
Now I'm not saying it can't be true. I'm just saying that with the politics being what they are, much more evidence is needed.-
Even if they lied, it seems everyone in congress at the time is complicit -
Yes, there is something to be said about asking the right questions and not allowing oneself to be whitewashed.
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Thank you mark for being the voice of reason. This is clearly an attempt to clean up the Pelosi debacle over her 5 different versions of what she knew. -
I'm not fan of our current Failure of the House but don't stop there. Both Demos and Repubs have failed the American people. It is supposed to be a check and balance against the president as well as to ensure laws are passed to the betterment of America. They completely failed to provide any real balance against Bush. It doesn't look like they are going to be a balance against Obama. The laws passed are mainly to pay off their masters of fund raising.
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There needs to be a serious investigation into the entire torture fiasco. And the Iraq war debacle. And the firing of the U.S. attorneys. Not to mention all the war profiteering by Halliburton and its subsidiaries.
Makes you wonder what congress is waiting for.-
the system is broken...
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I think it is funny that the opposition says the CIA lied while controlled under a different administration. What a joke. Its all politics.-
the report stated this occured between 2001 and earlier this year--mostly under Bush and Bush-appointed CIA directors.
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It wouldn't be a problem if the democrats appointed them now would it?
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of course it would. The congress is (at least in theory) our representation, and that authority needs to be recognized by these rogue agencies!
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Nancy Pelosi knows nothing about the CIA from what I see lol. Obama will probably abolish the CIA and delegate the power to himself. I mean his whole goal is centralized totalitarianism.
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darned right ya'betcha! the constitution is out the window if the CIA goes down...
oh, wait... -
the constitution is already out the window with this administration. Aka the pay czars. I highly doubt the founding fathers wanted a pay czar (who have no idea how to run a company) to control what company CEO's make.
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true... that's what bankruptcy judges are for : |
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the constitution is already out the window with this administration.
The Bush administration shredded the Constitution (metaphorically speaking). The Democrats are just too spineless to conduct any real investigations.
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face; It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"
~George W. Bush -
It isn't even a Democrat/Republican issue. It's about the CIA being at least nominally accountable to the American people!
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Sati- stop changing the subject to the Bush administration. We have already talked about them. A new administration is up for rash criticizing.
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The point is that Panetta is (at least supposedly) trying to rectify the situation. This is progress
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Sati- stop changing the subject to the Bush administration. We have already talked about them.
They still need to be prosecuted for the crimes they commited. -
Blame Bush! Blame Bush!
(that was my sati impression) -
Are you saying we shouldn't blame Bush for the crimes he committed? Who shall we blame then? Obama?
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Blame Obama? Works for me.
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I swear Congress really does not do a good job of anything. Seriously I think they are a bunch of complacent old bags most of the time, with the rare exception of someone who really wants to work for the people he represents.
Then there is the question of who told the CIA to lie, how many years have they been lying, probably eons and for different reasons through different administrations, who knows how the CIA has morphed over the years. it's as foul as our whole system has become.-
"I swear Congress really does not do a good job of anything."
Agree. That is why it would be insanity to the Nth degree to turn the health care system over to them.
I know, I know....wrong thread. -
The CIA has been lying for many, many decades. They're responsible for a lot of the world's problems.
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That would seem to sound like a gross overstatement... If i weren't aware of history
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Hmm, Agit8r, looks like there might be more to your story: www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us/politics/12intel.html?ref=global-home
I would still feel a whole lot better if we could get past the he-said-that-Panetta-said evidence---for the same reasons I mustered for my skepticism above.-
What makes it a bit more convincing is the NYT referencing a caveat in the law that says they have to disclose things to Congress. Here:
> to the extent consistent with due regard for the
> protection from unauthorized disclosure of classified
> information relating to sensitive intelligence sources and
> methods or other exceptionally sensitive matters.
This is the kind of thing that Cheney's wet dreams were made of. He wouldn't have trusted certain members of Congress and would have seen to it that the CIA obfuscated so much that the result was linguistically, if not legally a lie.
Of course, I used the conditional here, because I haven't proven anything. I'm just saying the story is becoming more plausible to me.
There's also this statement by a CIA spokesman, which comes pretty close to a confirmation:
> “It’s not agency practice to discuss what may or may not
> have been said in a classified briefing,” Mr. Gimigliano
> said. “When a C.I.A. unit brought this matter to Director
> Panetta’s attention, it was with the recommendation that
> it be shared appropriately with Congress. That was also
> his view, and he took swift, decisive action to put it
> into effect.” -
But they are mandated by law to make notes of all policy decisions made by Congress. So under the FOI it can be investigated.
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We should be able to know if the speaker of the house is full of it
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We know for a fact that they destroyed videos of interrogations. That was in violation of the law. Of course, since the tapes have been destroyed, there's no way of knowing if they destroyed evidence that shows them breaking the law, but why else would they have destroyed them?
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Maybe they needed blank tapes to record that Historic Event on Jan. 20th, 2009.
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Cheney kept CIA program from Congress, source says
The CIA withheld information about a secret counterterrorism program from Congress during the Bush administration on direct orders from then-Vice President Dick Cheney, current CIA director Leon Panetta told members of Congress, a knowledgeable source confirmed to CNN.
www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/11/cheney.surveillance/index.html
McCain: CIA secrecy story just beginning
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/12/mccain-cia-secrecy-story-just-begi...-
Darn it! John McCain is endangering our national security! He's a secret Muslim Black Panther trying to destroy America!
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An illegal Cheney hit squad? www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/13/cheney-cia-al-qaida-assassinations
I found this link, by the way, via Wisco (who some of you know here) on Twitter: He's good to follow there: twitter.com/Wisco-
Maybe he had a "Death Czar"
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The Times has an article about it:
The program was designed in the frantic weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks when President George W. Bush signed a secret order authorizing the C.I.A. to capture or kill operatives of Al Qaeda around the world. To be able to kill Osama bin Laden or his top deputies wherever they might be — even in cities or countries far from a war zone — struck top agency officials as an urgent goal, according to people involved in the discussions.
But in practice, creating and training the teams proved difficult.
“It sounds great in the movies, but when you try to do it, it’s not that easy,” a former intelligence official said. “Where do you base them? What do they look like? Are they going to be sitting around at headquarters on 24-hour alert waiting to be called?”
www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/us/14intel.html
Maybe they should have gotten Israel involved. They were pretty successful after the murders of their Olympic athletes in Munich. -
I don't recall the Constitution enumerating the power of running "death squads" to the Vice President... o_0
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No, that clause was secret, granted specifically to him by the Prince of Darkness.
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Yes, it was a power granted only to the Cheney Branch of Government (CBG).
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Oh yeah. I forgot he was a separate branch. How else do we explain his claiming executive privilege sometimes and then claiming he was a member of the legislative branch at other times, when that was convenient? Defying physics and mortality made it possible.
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CBG could also stand for Cyborg: an organism that has both artificial and natural systems. Coincidence? I don't think so.
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lets not forget that the National Energy Policy Development Group was part of the Cheney Branch:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_task_force -
How else do we explain his claiming executive privilege sometimes and then claiming he was a member of the legislative branch at other times, when that was convenient? Defying physics and mortality made it possible.
That's because Cheney is a dinosaur who landed on the moon 65 million years ago and evolved into a species who could defy physics, mortality, and logic
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