Political Discussions
There were 854,122 legal induced abortions in the US in 2003...
Posted by gerryPlanetEarth • 7/08/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: abortion, unwanted_pregnancies
Many women and even some men throughout the world fought hard for women to have the right and access to a private, medically accredited legal abortion...
This writer does not wish to take away those human rights from women...
I would however ask the following question:
Putting aside the pro-life/pro-choice debate...
Does anybody have any ideas on how to actually stop "the one million per annum unwanted pregnancies" that cause the one million per annum abortions in the U.S.A not to mention the rest of the world ?
Is there anything we as humans can do proactively to prevent (or at least reduce the occurence of) unwanted pregnancies from occuring in the future ?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Number_of_abortions_in_...
User Comments
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Eliminate all women or all men! -
Anyone considering to abort or supporting abortion should take a look at this movie:
www.priestsforlife.org/video/imag/
(warning! this is a really crude and gross footage, watch it at your own discretion)-
I was considering supporting abortion, but now I support changing the discussion rules so I could tell you what I really think about you putting a link to this video, Mr. Telemarketer (you are male, of course). -
@amtelemarket
The horrendous video takes place one million times per annum in the U.S.A. not to mention the rest of the world...
Perhaps if a video such as this was shown to both male and female schoolchildren at an appropriate age they would make a greater effort to practice sexual abstinence or safe sex with condoms... -
@omiller
"I was considering supporting abortion,"
What do you mean by your above words ?
Do support a woman's "right" to access a safe, private, medically accredited legal abortion if that is her personal choice ?
Or...Do you support abortion as a growing industry for birth control and gender selection ? -
The Abortion Industry doesn't want anyone to see videos like this. It causes us to face exactly what abortion is: The Killing of an Unborn Child. -
@gerryPlanetEarth,
When I said "I was considering supporting abortions" I only meant to relate to amtelemarket's original phrase, as if anyone "considers supporting abortions." I am pro choice.
@ThirstyJon,
The "Abortion Industry"? Sometimes I wish I could find common ground with people like you, but if it takes being hit in the head with a hammer a few times, I think I'll pass. -
@omiller
"as if anyone "considers supporting abortions." I am pro choice."
Thank-you for your clarification...
I think the only useful common ground between pro-life and pro-choice is reducing and eliminating unwanted pregnancies that cause abortions...
The "Choice" can and should remain for women but abortions must be stopped...
We must call a spade a spade and not deny that one million U.S.A. human citizens, the most defenseless of the defenseless are being murdered each year by abortion...
Stopping abortions by pro-active educative action is our only hope... -
OMiller, what are you referring to as being "hit on the head?"
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gerryPlanetEarth, on that first part, I don't think you'll find many people to oppose your common ground. In fact, the official position of NARAL is to try to reduce abortions, if only because of the possible psychological trauma abortion may cause for women.
However, to say children are murdered (US citizens, no less) is not calling a spade a spade, but making a specific argument in favor of one view of the debate.
ThirstyJon, oh, I meant basically banging my head on the wall again and again until I sense signs of retardation. Who knows how many Democrats did that just to understand Republicans, but by the time they finished, they discovered the process was irreversible. In fact, by the time they finished banging their heads on the wall, they were sure God was talking to them. And Ann Coulter was attractive. And Dick Cheney was awesome. -
Omiller, I am not trying to "hit anyone on the head."
Once in a while, someone needs to bring the reminder: To "have an abortion" is to kill a baby. I have never heard any decent counter to that point. -
Well, actually, it's to kill a fetus, and one that generally speaking has no brain, no body, and no nervous system.
Unless you are speaking of late term abortions, which most states, if not all, only do in medical emergencies.
The only real argument is the philosophical and religious argument of "when life begins" conception? Birth?
In any case, something that has no brain, no "body" or body parts, no nervous system - no nothing is hardly a "baby" which is used to garner emotional responses.
I have the ultrasounds from my pregnancy still - and there is nothing, but literally, a globular amount of cells. It wasn't until after so many weeks that anything began to take shape, and even weeks after that that it was something that might survive if taken outside the womb. Well beyond the late term abortion date, at that. -
@omiller: Does truth feel uncomfortable? Good! Everyone should be aware what happens when "women decide about her bodies". Those tore apart babies don't look like any part of a "woman bodie" to me. Maybe it's because they are just human beings who live INSIDE of women bodies but ARE NOT part of their bodies, unlike a kidney or a liver.
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Amtel, you obviously know very little about female reproduction, and abortion laws in the US.
No "little babies" are being "torn apart" nor are they "separate from the women's bodies" as they would not survive five seconds outside of the body.
Mainly because there is no brain, nervous system, or body available for survival. -
Anok, you are right about I don't know about US abortion laws, but just for being legal it doesn't mean it is right (I do know about female reproduction BTW).
"No "little babies" are being "torn apart" nor are they "separate from the women's bodies" as they would not survive five seconds outside of the body.
Mainly because there is no brain, nervous system, or body available for survival."
Your reasoning about taking the survival capacity of the fetuses as a rule of thumb to decide if they are human beings or just a bunch of cells is flawed, because even with 6 or 7 months of pregnancy, a baby cannot survive outside mother's body without medical care.
Where should we draw the line? An embryo with 13-14 days of life (why should we say "life" if it weren't already a human being?) develop a primitive nervous system. Its heart begins to beat about 18 to 21 days after conception. Fingerprints are detectable around the fifth week and pain sensors appear at the seventh week. Part of the brain begins to form at two months and gender can be detected via ultrasound. (source: www.religioustolerance.org/abo_fetu.htm )
Finally, I'm not a bigot. When I posted the link to that movie I was not talking about "human cells", if you cared (or dared) to watch the movie, you could see what I am talking about. The movie shows little human bodies, not bunchs of shapeless cells. -
I didn't watch the movie, so I have no idea what you are talking about.
US law only allows late term abortions in serious cases of risk to the mother.
In fact, where I live, you cannot get an abortion after week 12. Which is in the first trimester, still. (save for medical emergencies) I have the ultrasounds from my twelve week check up. Nope, not a baby! It was a globular mass, just barely starting to elongate into a somewhat human form. No brain, no arms (so no fingerprints), no nervous system - which, by the way doesn't actually start developing until much later in pregnancy, and isn't fully developed for sometime after the child has been born. No eyes, no face, no toes (no feet) no gender, no lungs, no stomach, no liver no nothing.
It is NOT a baby - and YES a 7 month old fetus CAN survive outside of the womb. but a four month old one cannot. Ever. Not even with medical intervention. There is nothing to save. There is no "preemie status" for a fetus or embryo four months or younger because any and all "births" at that point are considered to be miscarriages. Because they are.
There is no baby to save, because it is not a baby.
Stop telling people that it is. It is blatantly false. -
The movie I was talking about:
www.priestsforlife.org/video/imag/
(warning! this is a really crude and gross footage, watch it at your own discretion)
There is no baby to save, because it is not a baby.
Stop telling people that it is. It is blatantly false.
YOU consider it is blatantly false. If it were so clear we wouldn't be discussing it, right?
At this point, this can only turn to a "I say yes - I say no - I say yes... ad infinitum" discussion, but to end here I wish to say that things aren't as clear as you state them. In any case, I could equally support my statement saying that is blatantly false that there's just a bunch of cells and not a human being.
I could be wrong, though. You could be wrong also. Facing this fact, I prefer to bias my uncertainty towards life, because if there is just one tiny, slightly chance that what I think is right (and I think is much more than that), then I don't want to be an advocate of child killing.
I've enjoyed to discuss with you -
I think it would be of great benefit for those thinking about an abortion to see videos about what actually does happen to the baby during an abortion.
Why not? It's all about being an educated decision maker. The reason why some may find it grossly offensive is because one can not deny it is a baby that gets killed. An innocent life at the hands of one who has not value for babies in the womb. Poor babies. -
"There is no baby to save, because it is not a baby.
Stop telling people that it is. It is blatantly false."
How can anyone look at the above video and say that those aborted fetuses are not human babies ?
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Chastity belts? -
Not to pimp my own blog, but I did write a whole post about it:
identitycheck-anok.blogspot.com/2008/01/straying-from-norm.html
Snippet from the post:
The real problem is unwanted pregnancies, not abortion. Abortion is the symptom. In order to honestly stop abortions from occurring, one must stop unwanted pregnancies from occurring. If all pregnancies were wanted you would not only drastically lower the number of abortions (some non elective abortions due to medical problems will still occur), but you would also probably decrease the amount of child abuse and neglect too. (Not all, because some people really are just sick - and no matter how badly they wanted that baby, they would probably hurt it).
So all this whining, and no solution in sight. I'll tell you what you need to do to solve the problem.-
@Anok
I thought that was a great post....
" Right off the bat I will tell you my mantra about abortion - I am pro-choice. However, I wouldn't advise anyone to actually get an abortion unless the situation was dire. So, I promote the ability to choose it, but I don't recommend it."
I honestly believe most women share your mantra to a certain degree...To many women it is a human right as is voting is a human right..
I honestly believe that all women do not want or do not aspire to have an abortion...
The necessary answer is surely focusing our efforts on reducing/eliminating unwanted pregnancies...This is the only actual way of eliminating abortions...
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True Freedom flows from the internal to the external. If we want to reduce unwanted pregnancies we need to raise children who know who they are and who are responsible with their sexuality. If we tell them that they cannot be responsible and don't give them the love, support, and real parenting that they need, hormones and all of their attempts to fill their empty hearts with counterfeit love will take over.
We need to reach, love, and train people in the ways of God, one person at a time. -
A better health care and educational system that helps share the burden of having children would accomplish at least something, I should think. Children are, after all, a social good for the future of the country, but we tend to treat having them as a lifestyle choice and make going through a pregnancy and navigating the healthcare and education system a veritable nightmare at times.
Social conservative rhetoric on the abortion issue is out of sync with its policy positions on universal health care. -
I also think that societal support is in order. Often times women who end up pregnant who don't want to be, or are afraid or unsure, or in a bad situation - they tend to be ostracized instead of helped.
Adoption is a viable option hat I don't think is used nearly enough, or in the right way.
I was listening to a conservative talk show host spouting on about the evil was of women who support pro-choice and/or women who have had abortions - and aside from the demonization of a woman in a position this talk show host has never been in- aside from the fact that this host supported the notion of having as many kids as you can even if you can't support the kids - she did nothing but complain about these "irresponsible women".
I was very tempted to call her up and ask her how many unwanted babies she would be willing to adopt, and how many unwanted pregnancies would she be willing to support full term, to ensure a healthy baby - so she could adopt it, and prevent abortions from happening.
Since she is child free, and rather wealthy - I would assume that she has no intention of adopting anyone's child.
Ergo, she is part of the problem, too. -
Abortion Industry... that term makes me chuckle.
Why is it when I read about rich people none of them are ever from this supposed Abortion Industry? People make millions off oil and computers and weapons and pharmaceuticals, but no one on the Fortune 500 is there because of all the money they made from all those abortions they provided?
There's Big Oil and Big Pharma... do we call the Abortion Industry Big Coathanger?-
Dr. Henry Morgantaler made 11 Million dollars from his abortion business...That is a lot of money...
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No, the wikipedia entry you lifted that number from says he gets 11 million in gross revenue, as reported by an anti-abortion group. But you left out the part of the entry that says there's no information about expenses.
And reading the rest of that entry, it's clear he didn't get into abortions for the money. -
@RenalFailure
"No, the wikipedia entry you lifted that number from says he gets 11 million in gross revenue, as reported by an anti-abortion group. But you left out the part of the entry that says there's no information about expenses."
To the best of my knowledge wikipedia is currently not the only source of information on Planet Earth...
Thank-you for clarifying this 11 million dollars paid to Morgantaler was "gross sales" and is not a "net" profit figure...
Is there some great cost associated with an abortion procedure/murder ?
"And reading the rest of that entry, it's clear he didn't get into abortions for the money."
I would agree with you...Morgantaler's personal sacrifices were motivated by the women he encountered as a doctor who were mutilated, killed or made sterile by blackmarket illegal butchers performing abortions...
Still...11 Million dollars is nothing to sneeze at... -
Gerry, come on. You started this discussion with a "Putting aside the pro-life/pro-choice debate," and now you talk about murder. Don't be a dick. This discussion was dead on arrival. Move on. -
@people
"Gerry, come on. You started this discussion with a "Putting aside the pro-life/pro-choice debate," and now you talk about murder. Don't be a dick. This discussion was dead on arrival. Move on."
Although some people take offence to this reality that is what abortion is and no sugar coating will change that fact...Abortion is murder...
Conceding women the "right" to access a safe, private, medically accredited legal abortion does not mean that abortion is not murder...
As stated earlier I am looking for suggestions as to how to prevent or reduce the unwanted pregancies that are mostly responsible for abortions...
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I think we've jumped the shark here. Can someone compare one of the sides to Hitler so we could make it official?
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@omiller
"I think we've jumped the shark here. Can someone compare one of the sides to Hitler so we could make it official?"
The "Hitler" responsible for the abortion murders of one million american citizens per annum is simply two million "bad decisions by americans to have unprotected sex" per annum.... -
Woah, Gerry back that assumption up.
It is not two million bad decisions - it could be millions of rapes that end in pregnancy, millions of molestations that end in pregnancy, millions of failed contraceptions that end in pregnancy, millions of planned pregnancies that end in ectopic pregnancies or life threatening pregnancies - it could be millions of spousal rapes that end up in pregnancies.
You need to slow down, and get off the judgment train. -
@Anok
According to statistics there are one million abortions per annum in the U.S.A. and 100,000 rape convictions per annum in the U.S.A.
Common sense would seem to indicate that the majority of unwanted pregnancies that cause abortions are caused by irresponsible behaviour that is preventable...
Condom failure could be lessened by better education and research... -
The key word there is reported. It does not include spousal rape (which are rarely reported, and reasonably speaking would end up in many an unwanted pregnancy), unreported rapes, rapes charges that were never followed through on, rapists who have never been convicted, child molestations that are often not reported (but would CERTAINLY lead to pregnancies and abortions), physical and biological problems in pregnancy that could lead to an abortion...(such as a pregnant women finding out she is the carrier for a debilitating disease that would cause the child a life of pain and misery - she might opt for an abortion, rather than forcing a child to suffer for life).
The fact is that you have no idea what the actual circumstances of unwanted pregnancies are, and to simply unload a statistic, and claim it has all been due to simple, selfish, irresponsibility is a fallacy.
And a bad one, at that. -
@Anok...
re: "It does not include spousal rape"
I think you have identified another area that perhaps education could help...Oviously a marriage where spousal rape occurs is a dysfunctional marriage that should not have taken place to begin with...
Perhaps schoolchildren could be taught more life skills such as education about marriage and how to choose a partner etc. and this would reduce the incidence of bad marriages...
Please feel free to share any statistics you know of regarding the specific reasons for the one million abortions per annum in the U.S.A. -
There are no hard statistics, because women getting abortions don't give the reasons at the doctors office, nor are they required to.
Ergo, stating it is all because of, or mainly because of, or the vast majority are because of etc...doesn't fly because there are any number of reasons why a woman might have one, that are not recorded. It is a fallacious argument, ripe with bias and/or emotion.
I agree with you on education - but it doesn't remove the fact that spousal rape occurs, or that rape occurs and doesn't get reported. -
@Anok
"There are no hard statistics, because women getting abortions don't give the reasons at the doctors office, nor are they required to.
Ergo, stating it is all because of, or mainly because of, or the vast majority are because of etc...doesn't fly because there are any number of reasons why a woman might have one, that are not recorded. It is a fallacious argument, ripe with bias and/or emotion.
I would agree with you entirely...
It is a fallacious argument ripe with bias and/or emotion to suggest the majority of the one million abortions per annum in the U.S.A. are due to medical reasons or rape or spousal rape... -
Nice try.
Offering up a multitude of other valid reasons that don't simply bash and demonize all women who get abortions is not fallacious, no matter how bad anyone wants it to be.
The more you blame abortion stats on irresponsible women, the more your are contributing to the problem. -
@Anok
I would also blame one Male for each irresponsible unwanted pregnancy... -
You can certainly blame male rapists! or abusive spouses!
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Here's what happens when you make abortion illegal.
griperblade.blogspot.com/2007/08/romanian-roulette.html
Long story short, women die.-
@wisco
I couldn't agree with you more...Making abortion illegal is not a good idea or the answer to preventing abortion...
Speaking of Nicolae Ceaucescu, the brutal Romanian dictator who was hanged on Christmas Day there are many people throughout the world who maintain George W. Bush should like Nicolae Ceaucescu be hanged on Christmas Day as well... -
And here's what happens when you make abortion legal: unborn children die. Which life has more value? I think both, or at least we should not play God to say who dies and who lives.
I was on a short vacation so I wasn't able to respond earlier. I apologize for dropping a post and be absent for many days. In order to have my position cleared, I'd say:
-Educate to prevent unwanted pregnancies
-Educate to prevent unborn children killing and/or mothers death
-Once the woman gets pregnant unwillingly, show her she has other choices instead of abortion
-Make laws to make adoption easier and faster
-Educate people to choice LIFE. -
How about do all of that, and still leave it legal for situations that warrant abortions?
No amount of education will stop an ectopic pregnancy, or serious health issue, or rape or abuse or carriers of debilitating genetic diseases that would cause the babies to suffer once they are out of the womb.
How about we focus on helping the millions of children already IN this world who are abused, neglected and abandoned daily?
Why not fix that before trying to force women to have children they may not want or that wind up in child services where the children do not fare well at all.
Why not let WOMEN who are risking their life to bear a child make the decision for themselves? Because YOU are not taking any risks by making abortion illegal. you are not taking any risks by telling a woman to carry to term. The woman is, ergo, she has the final say.
Let us make our damn choices, and leave your God out of it. -
"How about do all of that, and still leave it legal for situations that warrant abortions?"
Yes, I agree with that, just don't make it "the easy way off" for unwanted and iresponsible pregnancies.
"No amount of education will stop an ectopic pregnancy, or serious health issue, or rape or abuse or carriers of debilitating genetic diseases that would cause the babies to suffer once they are out of the womb."
Mostly agree also. Some cases where mother's life is on stake should be considered. This is a survival issue where the mother has to choose between kill her unborn baby or kill herself. Some mothers choose to go on with their pregnancy against all odds though, but the opposite doesn't make evil the ones who choose not to kill themselves.
"How about we focus on helping the millions of children already IN this world who are abused, neglected and abandoned daily?"
That's a cliché. Focusing on saving the lives of unborn children won't make us neglect those already born. We should do both things without problems.
"Why not fix that before trying to force women to have children they may not want or that wind up in child services where the children do not fare well at all.
Why not let WOMEN who are risking their life to bear a child make the decision for themselves? Because YOU are not taking any risks by making abortion illegal. you are not taking any risks by telling a woman to carry to term. The woman is, ergo, she has the final say.
Let us make our damn choices, and leave your God out of it."
Have you ever heard about the "death squadrons"? They are groups of armed guys who go killing poor children who live in the streets to (in their words) "avoid them the pain and suffering of living in a world with so much unjustice" and "without fare well".
What differentiates your theory from theirs? Just about 9 inches, the distance which separates a child from being a "disposable part of your body" to being "your baby". Killing the children on the streets is evil but killing them inside the wombs is a woman choice? I don't think so.
Are there children who are poor and live without fare well? Then let's kill POVERTY, not the children.
Are there children who are born from rapes? Then let's kill RAPE rates (or the rapists), not the children.
Are there children who are born from unwanted pregnancies out of ignorance? Then let's educate our kids and kill their IGNORANCE, not the children.
The children are not to be blamed for our bad decissions. -
Have you ever heard about the "death squadrons"? They are groups of armed guys who go killing poor children who live in the streets to (in their words) "avoid them the pain and suffering of living in a world with so much unjustice" and "without fare well".
What differentiates your theory from theirs? Just about 9 inches, the distance which separates a child from being a "disposable part of your body" to being "your baby". Killing the children on the streets is evil but killing them inside the wombs is a woman choice? I don't think so.
Actually the difference is quite great - such as cognitive awareness, a functioning nervous system, a function brain, and existing body....
What grows in the womb is not a "baby" it is an embryo, then a fetus.
An embryo has no brain, no nervous system, no conscientiousness. It has no idea what human life is because it is not yet a human life. If it dies, it does not know it.
If a child is killed, a real child one that lives outside of the womb, s/he can feel, think, and have clear emotions.
I'm sick and tired of the emotional argument that an embryo or fetus is a child. it ISN'T. It is no where near the same thing as killing a child. The more people spew crap like this, the worse they make the problem.
That's a cliché. Focusing on saving the lives of unborn children won't make us neglect those already born. We should do both things without problems.
Not cliche, fact. People who argue to ban abortion are arguing to bring MORE children into the world that ALREADY does not take are of the children in it.
Why are we going to force people into bringing more kids into the world?
Yes, ideally we could take care of both. Ideally there wouldn't be unwanted babies, there wouldn't be abusive parents, there wouldn't be abandoned babies in dumpsters left to die (REAL babies), there wouldn't be debilitating diseases that cripple children leaving them and their parents in a horrible situation.
Ideally, the world would be perfect. It is not. Let's focus first on how to fix the problems of REAL living children before we decide to take up the cause for embryos. -
An embryo has no brain, no nervous system, no conscientiousness. It has no idea what human life is because it is not yet a human life. If it dies, it does not know it.
99% of the politicians of the world meet your description, maybe it's time we should begin to kill them
Like with abortion we can even use some euphemism to name their killing, it could be "corruption interruption", for instance.
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@geryyplanetearth
If this is a major topic for Americans in the upcoming Presidential Election then it's not getting any media attention to speak of. Presumably you have something to share on the issue within the framework of the Presidential Election campaign.
Will you please be so kind as to post links to the the two American Presidential candidates' individual stated positions on the issues of reducing the number of pregnancies and legal abortions in the USA? -
oh boy, this is always emotionally charged. isn't it? well, i'm tired of listening, let me take some vebal lumps.
you know what i like about the catholic doctrine? it is consistant: no abortion, no war, no death penalty. a consistant view of life. coming from a non-believer, that is quite a complement. unfortunately, most catholics reject their own doctrine, they along with zealot muslims, jews, and other christians say abortion (even the day after pill) is murder, but seem to dismiss war, and the death penalty as something else. quite honestly, i've yet to hear a word for it that makes sense (other than murder).
having said all that, i'm of the opinion that as a society we have not matured to the point that any of these kind of murders can be eliminated. each for different reasons, but necessary nonetheless. and they are all something that i'd like to believe most folks would agree are choices we'd prefer not to be left with. but we are.
so ... when someone tells me in one breath that abortion is murder but in the next tells me death row and shooting up iraq is different, i start to get nervouse because it starts to sound like an agenda to me and less about the sanctity of life, especially from men.-
Well said.
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so ... when someone tells me in one breath that abortion is murder but in the next tells me death row and shooting up iraq is different, i start to get nervouse because it starts to sound like an agenda to me and less about the sanctity of life, especially from men.
Just for you not getting nervous, I can tell you in one breath: all what you have mentioned IS murder. Abortion, death penalty, war. The contradictions you find on catholic, muslim or jewish people is not from the doctrine, but from the way some people interpret them in order to make them fit their own interests and greed. There aren't "saint" wars, just wars and 99,99% of them originates from greed.
Am I pro-life? Yes. Would I eventually kill somebody for some reason? Perhaps. Does that make me contradict myself? I don't think so, I'm just a (highly unperfect) human being with blood in my veins. I can kill somebody on self-defense or in a war, I don't know what future could bring.
I'm just saying that I wouldn't live on a society which does an scandal out of adults having consensuated paid sexual relations (to mention something) and allow the murder of millions of unborn children without a blink.
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Gerry asked: Is there anything we as humans can do proactively to prevent (or at least reduce the occurence of) unwanted pregnancies from occuring in the future?
1) Value the sacredness of sex within marriage alone
2) Value human life in the womb and out of the womb
A recent blog post I did about my view: tinyurl.com/638o27
Babies deserve to be protected, in the womb and outside the womb. In my opinion, abortion is never an option.-
Ectopic pregnancy.
They are not rare, and they will never, ever allow a woman to carry to term without killing both mother and child.
By allowing an abortion you kill a fetus, but save the mother. By forcing the woman to carry to term, you've killed both. -
One of my aunts died of an ectopic pregnancy and left 4 other kids behind for us to raise rather than have an abortion. She believed that all babies were a gift from God and that His will would prevail. If He wished to intervene in her case He would but she would not "play God". Her position was that if she and she died then it was God's choice.
Why the hype? Effective education and support re: pregnancy prevention has been going on for over 40 years now. There is plenty of information and medical counseling available to girls and women who do not wish to become pregnant. However, in America the unwanted pregnancy rate is not falling.
I don't know what people who post these abortion threads to forums get out of seeing them go on and on ad nauseaum but I do know that they do not prevent unwanted pregnancies. IMO jawing about preventing pregnancy under the title of abortions in forum threads like this is a waste of time because it does not result in a single prevention of an unwanted pregnancy or a single adoption. -
IMO jawing about preventing pregnancy under the title of abortions in forum threads like this is a waste of time because it does not result in a single prevention of an unwanted pregnancy or a single adoption.
In my case, I just come here to have an interesting discussion and/or some fun. No intention to fix the world venting in a forum, just coming here instead of going to a bar.
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I often wonder if those who are the most avid supporters of abortion are the ones who have also had them?
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Sometimes that's true, but most of the time I think that they are just people wanting to tell others what to do. It's not very different from most of us, anti-abortion, we are also telling people what to do.
I'm not telling people what to do, I just want to make people aware of what it really is abortion, and it is "killing a human being". If you want or really need to abort for whatever reason, ok, it's your decission, but know what you are going to do and don't take it lightly as if it were a cosmetic surgery.
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Quoted from: the original post
Putting aside the pro-life/pro-choice debate...
Q 1: Does anybody have any ideas on how to actually stop "the one million per annum unwanted pregnancies" that cause the one million per annum abortions in the U.S.A not to mention the rest of the world ?
Q 2: Is there anything we as humans can do proactively to prevent (or at least reduce the occurence of) unwanted pregnancies from occuring in the future ?
@amtelemarket
" ... just coming here instead of going to a bar."
Thanks for being so forthcoming. I've never thought of forums as an alternative to bars. That's probably because I haven't been in a bar for years.-
Maybe because we are not talking about the same kind of bar
don't forget our cultural and local differences.
I mentioned a bar thinking about a place to meet with friends or aquaintances, seat around a table drinking coffee, beer or whatever, and talk and discuss respectfully about any subject (sex, polytics, religion, gossip, you name it).
As you already said jawing about preventing pregnancy under the title of abortions in forum threads like this is a waste of time. It is from a practical point of view, but it is not from a social point of view. I know that coming to a forum to give my opinion on something won't change the world, but that's not the purpose of a forum. Besides, people who make the decissions in this world are too busy to come here and read about our wisdom
Thanks for pointing what this thread originated on, as you can notice, this kind of topics take a life of their own and IMHO that's good as long as the discussion is kept on a frame of mutual respect. Just don't take it too seriously, there's a big, big world beyond our keyboards.
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Ways to prevent and reduce abortions:
Free and easily available contraception without guilt.
Free and easily available sex education without guilt.
Free and easily available pre and post-natal health care.
Free and easily available pediatric care.
Free and easily available daycare for mothers who must return to work, or school.
Strict enforcement of child support laws. Jail non responsive fathers.
Strict and mandatory joint custody/care responsibilities with the father.
Remove the stigma of an unplanned pregnancy by fining anyone ridiculing a pregnant teen or single mother -- including calling her irresponsible, a slut, a skank, etc.
Complete and total privacy in the doctors' office from parents, siblings, grandparents, government agencies, schools so that teens can ask questions about birth control without fear of reprisal.
I think that about covers it.-
@Jane Q Citizen
We have most of that where I live. We don't jail fathers and we don't compel fathers to care for children they do not want or love but we do require that they pay child support. If we jailed them then those who had no previous experience with crime would only be experiencing "crime school lessons" in prison.
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