Political Discussions
What About Rick?
Posted by TheBigRuski • 1/21/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: Barack Obama, inauguration, invocation, media, news, prayer, rick warren
After all the intense coverage of President Obama’s inaugural invocation address pick, Rick Warren, …weeks on end of Warren-bashing by gay advocates slamming the Orange County, Calif. pastor for his traditional view of marriage …this is all we get?
After viewing many hours of CNN inauguration coverage and rehash, I must have missed the Warren highlight while going to the bathroom.
Or did I?
From a quick poll of friends, no one saw or heard any mention, highlight, analysis, or replay of Warren’s beautiful and fitting prayer for our president in any of their TV viewing...
thescroogereport.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/what-about-rick/
User Comments
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www.kobrascorner.com/opine/nuke-morons.php
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EDIT:
[Warren’s beautiful and fitting prayer for our president in any of their TV viewing...]
You mean the five minutes of prime air time that was wasted on that blow-hard and his longwinded prayer?-
How about this contribution?
Follow Jesus Like Nazis Followed Hitler, Rick Warren Tells Stadium Crowd
"... During his Anaheim stadium speech Warren, sometimes called 'pastor Rick' talked about a number of visions and communications he had received from God. By calling on his church members to follow Jesus with the fanatical dedication with which the Nazis, or Hitler Youth, gave to Adolf Hitler, Rick Warren appeared to be in effect asking his Saddleback members to be fanatically dedicated to Warren's own leadership, given his role in divining God's intent for the Saddleback church flock. During his speech, Rick Warren also explained that God had personally instructed him to seek, for the good of the world, more influence, power and fame. ..."
Read the article and watch the video here www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/follow-jesus-like-nazis-f_b_158295.html -
That's quite terrifying. I was trying not to think about that; thanks.
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Hmmm ... well, I guess that makes two of us "unbelievers" who find it outrageous that Rick Warren claims that that God had personally instructed him to seek, for the good of the world, more influence, power and fame.
Perhaps he's the fabled anti-Christ. I mean, who really knows for sure? I was under the impression that the role model for Christian pastors was Jesus, who was humble, and who taught the antithesis of seeking more influence, power and fame, in his parables but I suppose I could be wrong. -
Rick Warren did NOT ask people to follow Christ as followers of Hitler did. He was illustrating the power (sometimes good, sometimes bad) that a group of people can have if they devote themselves to a cause (good or bad). A fact.
People have erroneously juxtaposed Warren's comments in order to justify their unbelief.
Warren could care less who "follows him." He is only fulfilling the Christian commission to spread the Good News.
Warren is an extremely humble man, who's last desire was to be thrust in the media spotlight.
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Rick Warren got his due time on CNN and I'm sure he received the same sort of exposure on other US network and cables news networks. What's the problem? Should he have gotten some special exposure?-
He got no exposure in regards to what I mentioned above.
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oops
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I watched highlights on CNN and online and I didn't see any special coverage of Aretha Franklin, Elizabeth Alexander, Yo-Yo Ma or Rick Warren. Why do we need to make a non-issue an issue?!
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I did not say "special" coverage. I said that in all the analysis and edited highlights, I did not see a Warren clip. Aretha was on nearly every highlight recap...nothing wrong with that, she was beautiful. Just odd that not even a mere mention of Rick.
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For me that was the worst part of the inauguration, I dislike that man and his ideology so I could easily have lived without it. I watched it at a bar/club and I'm not sure what network they had on but we had to listen to the whole thing.-
How much have you listened to him? Dislike? What ideology?
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He believes humans and dinosaurs lived together, his opinion of gay people is "Don't have sex!" Need I go on?
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I've listened to enough. First off I do not believe n the whole Jesus was the son of God argument and that is just for starters, he is a biblical biblical literalist and he is in many ways a coordinator of women. I can't get past his bigotry and he is a bigot. I was disappointed Obama chose such a person to be part of his inauguration.
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Calling someone a bigot does not make him so. Neither does simply saying "I've listened to enough" indicate to me that you've listened to him at all.
However, if your heart is hardened towards Jesus, I can see how you feel the way you do. -
This has nothing to do with Jesus. Focus, Ruski.
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You been getting outside lately, VK? Saying that the inaugural invocation given by Rick Warren had "nothing to do with Jesus" is like saying the inauguration had nothing to do with Obama.
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I meant that cooper's comments have nothing to do with Jesus, and therefore your comment was unwarranted. Let's stay focused, and by that I mean let's not get into a religious argument. This forum is not your soapbox.
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@Cooper
In fact, if one carefully examines the New Testament one will not find words directed attributed to Jesus whereby he is purported to have claimed:
that he was god;
that he was the son of god;
that he was the savior;
or that he was the messiah. -
TT, I'm not sure what you are addressing. The two facts, that I don't believe jesus was the son of god, and rick warren being a biblical literalist are two seperate reason but both address reasons I do not follow Rick Warren.
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She's mentioning Biblical facts (by that I mean the facts pertaining to what's written in the bible, NOT that anything in the Bible is factual) against the divinity of the man, Jesus.
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@cooper
She's mentioning Biblical facts (by that I mean the facts pertaining to what's written in the bible, NOT that anything in the Bible is factual) against the divinity of the man, Jesus.
Yes, voodoo is correct. That is what I was getting at. The entire concept of Jesus being god, the son of god, the savior and the messiah have been manufactured and so is the fantasy of being descended from the house of David. That was only introduced into the story of Jesus' life decades after the events occurred, most likely after anyone who actually witnessed the events was dead.
The contents of the Old Testament (Tanakh) were written over a period of seven or eight centuries and were often edited by later writers. Christians deliberately interpret the Old Testament (Tanakh) in a manner required to uphold their doctrine and dogma that depicts Jesus as God.
Christians borrow the Old Testament books(Tanakh) from the Jews, sans the rabbinical teachings and accepted Judiac interpretation of those books. Then they cherry pick passages from it and put their own spin on them, because if they didn't they would have only the New Testament books to base their religion upon.
The New Testament books were written long after the man called Jesus was dead, by several different authors, during a period stretching from circa 55 to 100CE, with the exception of the book of Revelations, which was a pre-Christian Jewish text that was rewritten much much later.
In fact the ultimate decision as to which books were to be "canonized" for inclusion in the "New Testament" wasn't until the fourth century CE-- and a lot of works were rejected for inclusion. Some were declared to be Pseudographia (false writings) and others were declared to be Apocrypha (ie. books that fall outside the agreed upon doctrine and dogma and therefore would not be included) in the anthology that we know today as "The Bible".
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No words similar to what your chosen post depicts are found on the church's site. All are welcome to the church.
That post is a gross misrepresentation. -
oops!
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I was happy to see Warren highlighting common values that Evangelical Christians and Obama share. I wonder if said Evangelicals got the message?
Some people behind me were offended, but I just went with it, keeping in mind the sentiments in the Obama "Call to Renewal" speech that people left and right need to think about some more.-
I think is a bit of a cop-out as tt says that is not what he did. But then again there were some who didn't like the benediction either for they though it rather exclusive so nothing will please everyone one.
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What message would that be, MS?
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If you don't know, then (re)read his "Call to Renewal" address. And read his inauguration speech again too.
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That's your answer to your question "I wonder if said Evangelicals got the message?"
If it's about renewal...why did you ask about evangelicals? Is the word renewal foreign to evangelicals...or somethin'?
I don't get it. What's your implication?
I've listened to his speeches very carefully and for the most part think they are great...so, what ARE you saying...or asking? -
Did you even read the speech to which I'm referring? If not, you should, as it is a major address on the relationship between politics and religion by a man who became president. Read it and I think you'll be answering your initial question. Your later questions seem to derive from what you imagine the speech to be about. I have no desire to summarize it when it's out there for you to read. Here: blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/11/obamas-historic-call-to-renewa.htm... We can discuss its meaning after you've studied it, assuming you want to.
While you're at it, you might also check out his speech on race if you haven't already (www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88478467). The two set the intellectual stage for what we saw on Tuesday in terms of domestic politics, albeit before it was clear how dramatically the economic context had changed. -
OK...so, you don't want to answer my question and continue to be evasive. I wasn't asking for a summary. I was asking why you "wondered" about evangelicals.
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English for Beginners: "I wonder..." in this context means "I ask myself..."
(How you got to "evasive" remains a mystery, but don't waste your time. An overpowering sense of deja vu reminds me that further communication is pointless.) -
Evasive as in not answering the question.
And for me, it's not deja vu, I just know your view by your comments....rather than approach issues of faith with an open mind, you've boxed them in your particular box, and refuse to proceed in a conversation....showing no patience or willingness to interact.
....and prefer to simply call someone names and infer they simply don't know what they are talking about. -
I'm just plain evil. I indicate a willingness to talk about these issues in reference to a major speech, but you refuse to indicate whether or not you've read the speech. If that is too cryptic, I am sorry. I spend my days and evenings teaching. There comes a point when my patience is all used up.
Apropos steretyping people and faith, what do you think I was doing when Warren said the Lord's Prayer? There was a woman behind me complaining loudly about it, and there was a family next to me reciting it. Care to guess what I was doing? Yeah, I recited it too. Since I was raised in that faith tradition, I just went with it. And I was pleased for another woman who gratefully acknowledged Obama's reference to Americans with no faith. We were all out there in the cold on January 20th. We were part of the same thing. -
I read the speech.
Again, my question was why did you single out "evangelicals" in wondering if this group got the "message?" -
Because they comprise the group whose attitudes interest me the most on this score. I have a pretty good sense of where other groups are at. What that has to do with singling anyone out is beyond me. Persecution complex?
Seriously, is that what this was all about? "Singling out?" How on earth . . . ? I accept the premise of the Call to Renewal speech. I am singling no one out. -
@MS...thanks for beginning to answer the question (geesh, finally).
So, IYO evangelicals compromise common values more than the group you are interested in...if I'm reading that correctly? I'm combining words used in your initial post in this thread and your last one.
Seems like you are talking about a perceived intolerance of other people's values from evangelicals. Do you know how many evangelicals there are? How can you dump this concept on all of them?
Anyways, I think I'm beginning to understand your premise. However, I'm "evangelical" (and also make mistakes), voted and rooting for Obama, listened and "read" many of his words, and know about the importance of appreciating common values.
I was happy to hear that you joined Warren's prayer...or "recited" and "went with it," as you put it. Seriously.
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What Rick Warren Said
Rick Warren's conservative theology teaches him that there is one path to God, and that is Jesus. So when he wraps his great big arms around Muslims and Jews (and homosexuals), does he really believe there's hope for us? Or is he just being nice?
www.newsweek.com/id/180660
Was Rick Warren's Invocation Less Inclusive Than He Let On?
On the one hand, Warren recited the full Lord's Prayer, the most recognizable Christian prayer. It apparently marked the first time a speaker at a presidential inauguration invocation said that prayer, which is more commonly heard in church services than at public events.
On the other hand, numerous religions scholars I spoke with yesterday noted that Warren framed the prayer in personal terms that made it clear he wasn't praying to Jesus on behalf of all present:
"I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life, Yeshua, Isa, Jesús [Spanish pronunciation], Jesus who taught us to pray..."
www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/01/21/was-rick-warrens-invocation...
Warren courts non-Christians -- or does he?
When Coughlin gave the invocation at a memorial service for former President Gerald Ford, he prayed: “{W]e humbly ask You, Lord, to grant peace and reconciliation, healing and gentle civility to this nation, as this man so nobly tried to do in life’s singular moments by his efforts to close chapter upon chapter on America’s sadness." No mention of Jesus -- or Yeshua.
opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2009/01/warren-courts-n.html -
Last month, Warren attended a Jewish Sabbath service, a Catholic mass, spoke to a group of Muslims, and had a private conversation with a gay leader who is a friend - all in the same week.
Hmmmmm.....-
The pastors in my own family do the same .... hmmm
When I was younger I was there with them ... hmmm
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I thought it strange Warren had to read the whole service. He barely looked up through the whole thing. Wasn't it important enough an event to memorize the sermon?-
Strange?
1. Some people pray while looking down.
2. It was not a sermon. -
Ben, as TBR suggests, pastors don't look up during a prayer. They bow their heads. Course, a whole bunch of us on the Mall were bowing our heads too, so we didn't see what Warren was doing.
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Ruski, your perceptions always amaze me. I thought Warren rambled and was a surprisingly poor speaker; someone else who had never seen him before specifically mentioned after the inauguration that she'd been disappointed by him and wondered why he had been chosen.-
Politics, of course. A message of inclusivity, which has to be read in tandem with Bishop Robinson's appearance on Sunday.
(Which is not to say politics is a bad thing.) -
Not in my circles of brothers and sisters.
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Just to clarify, the "Not in my circles of brothers and sisters." refers to MX comments.
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News Flash: the bigots thought Warren was great!
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Chuck Norris is a tad slow on this, but here's some highlights:
The Most Underrated Part of the Inauguration
I know inaugural news and commentary are already passé. But I could not find one report this past week that caught what I believe was the most subtle, strategic and possibly subversive moment of the inauguration ceremony. Did you catch it?
Like most news agencies, U.S. News & World Report reported that the Rev. Rick Warren's invocation "clearly opted for a conciliatory tone that eschewed any mention of culture-war issues." But Warren hardly was pacifying the elites or anyone else -- if you truly understand what he prayed. The invocation seemed like a rather benign blessing that even his most ardent foes could have interpreted as inclusive. But the real portrait of his prayer was quite to the contrary...
...Third, Warren then narrowed his focus by identifying the Creator as the one true Hebrew (or Jewish) God of the Old Testament -- something that sounds inclusive of Judaism but also serves as the basis and narrowing of his Christian logic. At the same time, he was culturally relative and sensitive to (but not necessarily endorsing of) Islam by extolling God as "the compassionate and merciful one," a descriptive line that opens all but one chapter of the Quran. Warren prayed: "The Scripture tells us, 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one.' And you are the compassionate and merciful one. And you are loving to everyone you have made."...
...Fifth, Warren turned on a dime by calling on God to help us remember this universal religious truth (in all Middle Eastern religions, I might add): God will judge all nations and all peoples. Then, for clarity's sake, the name of Warren's Supreme Judge was given. He referred to this transforming agent, who changed his own life, in four different languages: "I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life -- Yeshua (Hebrew), Isa (Arabic), Jesus (Spanish pronunciation), Jesus (English pronuncation)."...
...For most, Warren was reinforcing his image as "a unifying, post-Christian-right figure rather than as a divisive culture warrior." But reality is, as Jesus called his apostles to do, Warren was being as "shrewd as a serpent and innocent as a dove." And most never even caught it.
Say what you will about this purpose-driven pastor, but when you parse it, the Rev. Rick Warren's inaugural invocation was about as purpose-driven as prayers come.
full story: www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30437 -
IMO the amount of "religion" embedded into the inauguration reveals the hypocrisy of claiming that state and religion and state are separate in America. Obviously, they aren't.
The intentions of the founding fathers seems to have been subverted the establishment of a Christian elite which has penetrated governance. IMO it does appear that it's long past time for:
(1) the actual separation of state and religion in America to take place and to be upheld;
(2) for religious organizations to be subject to the same rules as are all other charitable organizations;
(3) for real property and finances religious organizations that are not directed exclusively to charitable causes to be taxed.-
Oops! I apologize. I just realized I posted this comment above into the wrong thread, so I'm clicking the report button so Admin with remove it.
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No one said anything about the separation of religion and the state. The point is the separation of church and state. That's a somewhat different issue.
It's time to move past this criticism from the left, just like it's time for religious conservatives to get over it. I've linked this above, but I'll do it again (blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/11/obamas-historic-call-to-renewa.htm...). Have a look at this Obama speech on religion and politics. It's worthwhile, even for a Canadian.
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Your bigot idol got his T.V. coverage and you were too constipated to see any of it.
If this is really the best you can do to bolster your "persecuted Christian" thing, you're in really bad shape, Ruski.-
Yep. That old dialog is tired, worn out, nearly used up.
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@drjay...back to name-calling I see.
I'm fine with the facts of this argument. Warren was left out of most "highlight" coverage.
I'm also fine with the fact that the "persecuted Christian thing" is a real occurance every day and every where. -
I'm also fine with the fact that the "persecuted Christian thing" is a real occurance every day and every where.
Hello. Christian missionaries are volunteers for persecution. In some third world countries their lives are in danger, but there is no life threatening persecution of Christians in North America. Here in North America the worst a Christian like tricky Ricky may experience is being told to shut up and stick their book where the sun don't shine. That would be a rare occurrence when you are the pastor of a mega church who believes he is receiving visions and messages directly from God, and you live in a country that's so polluted with Christianity that you are given a few moments to mumble your jumble at the Presidential inauguration.
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Dick "You Are What You Eat" Warren is not only an idiot, but also an asshole. Warren's a perpetuator of the vapid "Gays shouldn't get married" viewpoint, and a creationist to boot. In fact, Warren believes humans and dinosaurs lived together. (Close, except it was Eomaia scansoria, not Homo sapiens sapiens, and this was 125 million years ago, not a few thousand.) Everything about this man begs me to kick him in the shins.
Now, a lot of people pissed off at President-Elect Obama's choice to let Warren give the invocation at his inauguration. Not me. I see what's going on here. While Obama appoints reasonable people like John P. Holdren and Steven Chu to important positions, he gives a position of prestige, but no power, to ignorant assholes like Rick Warren in a desperate attempt to make everyone happy. It's that transparent, and people on both sides of the argument over Obama's decision still can't see through it.
(Exerpt from: www.kobrascorner.com/opine/nuke-morons.php ) -
Religion is most like a computer virus for brains. It comes complete with instructions for development and propagation of the virus, and code that prevents the person from deleting it or noticing that it doesn't conform to reality. It is orchestrated, organized, and officially sanctioned psychosis, made easily digestible and palatable to the masses.
Learn to think before you learn to believe, or you’ll soon believe that you don’t have to think.-
...but, then there is Jesus Christ and the choice to follow him, which has nothing to do with "religion."
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