Political Discussions
Will You Tell Congress to Support REAL Healthcare Reform Plzzzz??
Posted by ethanre • 8/21/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: healthcare
We must have our option, a fair option, a PUBLIC option .. right now. If you agree please get active, so easy:
www.seekingwholeness.com/world/politics-world/tell-congress-to-support-real...
User Comments
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Hell no -
Three steps:
1. Allow people to purchase private health insurance across state lines.
2. Tort reform, meaning limits on punitive damages.
3. Expand Medicare or Medicaid to cover the 10-12 million Americans that are truly chronically without medical coverage.
But to have a public option? That is crazy.
ethanre, please point to an example from anywhere in the world where a public option exists and is truly successful, lowers costs and delivers quality health care to all without excessive wait times or rationing.-
Other countries do not have a public option because they dont need it, since they have single player systems. In the US single payer is a little to scary for people like you because the word socialism scares you, thus a public option is a workable solution in the US..
Why are you afraid of a public option? I want it, I am a citizen, i deserve my option, the govt should protect me by offering me a choice -- right now the insurance companies have a "monopoly" on health care.
Actually, please dont go on medicare either, you know it's socialized, dont you?.. If you are a vet dont use the VA, it also is a socialized system.. and when you see a house on fire well please DONT call the fire department or police, they are also socialized systems.. And I hope to God that you did not attend these socialized public schools, did you? How about highways, do you drive on highways? Oh, and finally when the country needs to defend itself against aggressors, who do you think we rely on? well we rely on the military because the military is yet another socialized system.
I cannot give you a country that uses public option because they do not need to use it, they are socialized. -
1. Stop calling it a public option, there is no option when everybody has to pay for it. If you want insurance buy insurance. Don't make everybody else pay for it.
2. Don't call it an option when it stands the risk of eliminating the private system we have now.
3. Other countries with "single payer systems" more often than not have private insurance that only the wealthiest can afford, and buy because they can get around the wait lines, rationing etc from the gov't program.
And you have to love the Lefties "don't use the roads or fire department" .. we already PAY for those, when we have a problem with that, we'll take it up, as of now, most people WANT That. but they don't want the gov't healthcare program. -
ethan, you talk about caring for people, yet you want to eliminate the private insurance industry. We have over 1,000 health insurance companies in the United States. That is a lot of people working, making a living and paying taxes. But you want the government to hand you everything.
Calling the military socialism is just dumb. There is a little piece of paper that says the Federal Government should provide for the common defense. It is called our Constitution, I think you should read it. Since it is one of the enumerated powers of our Federal Government, how can it be socialism?
As far as roads, fire depts, police, etc..., correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the police and firemen also providing for the common defense? Not from outside enemies, but the common defense of the moral order, or civil society as our founding fathers wanted. And the roads, well how are they supposed to get to your house? Duh. Nice try, but not nice enough. Public education is a socialistic concept, I mean talk about central planning. Look at the level of indoctrination in our public grade schools, high schools and higher education. We have an alleged teacher who posts here on BC and if he is indeed a teacher, it is evident that he carries on the indoctrination if his posts are any example.
Why am I afraid of the public option? I think it is more that I reject any tool the statist uses to move towards the single payer system. El Presidente is on record numerous times wanting the single payer system. As are Barney Frank and a whole host of other far right libs. What are you afraid of ethan?
To address your question - for unlike ruin, I never run away from a direct question - I want to quote Edmund Burke. I am sure you know who he is, correct?
"What is the use of discussing a man's abstract right to food or to medicine? The question is upon the method of procuring and administering them. In that deliberation I shall always advise to call in the aid of the farmer and the physician, rather than the professor of metaphysics." - Edmund Burke from Select Works of Edmund Burke
ethan, you need to understand the idea of private property, and I don't mean real estate. Our founding fathers believed in the individual's rights to own, and enjoy the fruits of his labor. That is why they worded the Constitution the way they did. The believed in a limited government, and personal liberties and freedoms. Once you, as a society relinquish control of your health care decisions and give that over to the Government, then you are totally dependent on the state.
Let me ask you this. Do you think the so called public option will not lead to single payer? And can you point to one example of single payer health care that is run efficiently and with quality care for all?
I understand your passion, but do not be led astray by ruin. He is a drone and does little original thinking on his own. -
both my wife and myself have had elderly relatives die because of or shortly after recieving medical malpractice.
Whose KILLING grandma now!?! -
Agit8r...I am sorry for you loss. Truly I am.
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since you are speaking of public defense
We spend $1 Billion USD every week in Iraq to fight terrorist, to save American lives - for public defense.
This year 547,000 Americans will die of cancer; this is 1,500 people that die every day. How about saving lives here at home by fighting cancer?
People can't ...fight cancer when Insurance Companies drop them, refuse to insure them or don't pay for treatment.
It's a patriotic duty to protect American lives, isn't it. -
It is hard to have a debate with you when you bounce all over the place like this. Look we are already in Iraq. If you are upset about the money that it is costing, I suppose you are equally upset at the unprecedented spending El Presidente has done since he took office, right? Or is THAT spending okay, because it promotes the far left agenda?
You claim (I think) to be Patriotic. So now that we have troops on the ground, are you in favor of them doing their job to the best of their ability? Or do you want to cut and run?
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I wish I had representation in Congress. Then I would tell my legislator that I want a public option.
(I'm a DC resident, so I get to pay taxes without the representation part.)-
You can still call!
www.seekingwholeness.com/world/politics-world/tell-congress-to-support-real...
check this out
Join This Campaign: Universal (National) Health Coverage Now
www.seekingwholeness.com/research-studies/resources-products-books/join-thi...
just call someone
We need to speak out and get our voices heard because the minority, like Mr anticsrocks are very vocal.. we need to be vocal before it's too late.
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", most people WANT That. but they don't want the gov't healthcare program."
Where are you getting this info from?? let me guess, FOX 'News' ?-
You said: "don't use the roads or fire department" .. we already PAY for those, when we have a problem with that, we'll take it up.
Does this imply that 'we' as a nation don't have a problem with the health care system?
enough said -
LOL, replying to yourself. That is unusual.
"Does this imply that 'we' as a nation don't have a problem with the health care system?
enough said"
No, we as a nation don't have a problem with the health care system. We as a nation have a FINANCIAL problem with our world class health care system. Paying for it is where the problem lies, not in the care itself. -
NOT THE CARE ITSELF!?!?!
www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS15258+09-Aug-2009+PRN20090809
www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/News/News-Releases/2005/Nov/International-...
Obviously U.S. Healthcare stinks, in addition to being rediculously overpriced. Republican plan to fix it? Give the quacks legal immunity! *headdesk* -
I never said the system was perfect Agit8r, I said we as a nation don't have a problem with it as a whole. There is always room for improvement. That is why the founding fathers allowed amendments to the Constitution, to make it more perfect. Or at least better.
A lot of the problems you cite, and I am not denying them, would be addressed under tort reform. Defensive medicine leads to mistakes, as does our high volume of medical services. Not excusing it by any stretch of the imagination, but saying that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
But on its entirety, the United States has world class health care, by and large. -
Tort reform allows the insurers of quacks to hedge the risk on insuring them. Although I am probably oversimplifying to say that all medical mistake are the result of outright quackery. Doctors are human beings who may succumb to fatigue and all assortment of human weakness. I suppose I could support a somewhat more generous tort reform measure if it could include provisions that regulated the working conditions of medical personnel. Unfortunately, that is probably too much intervention for many conservatives to stomach
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I would be amenable to that. I think that tort reform and the allowance for people to buy insurance across state lines would answer a lot of problems that occur in our health care system.
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MR. csiunatc
Why do I expect you to be rational, just look at your avatar.. what the heck is that? Obama looking like the clown from batman? Well, why not just use the image of obama with the hitler mustache, I'm sure you want to?
Clearly, you are basing your opinion on ideology & on hate for obama... Cant debate with you.. just a waste of time
People like you are those who go to the town hall meetings and scream .. because you are basing your opinions on Emotions, Ideology, Hate & wrong facts... STOP watching FOX and do yourself a favor..
Well, I'm going offline to spend time with my family.
I wish you the best-
LMAO.. thats three and counting.
www.blogcatalog.com/politics/discuss/entry/obama-joker-or-minstrel-images#c... -
Looks like someone is carrying ruin's water for him now.
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Water - Koolaid, same same..
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Funny, ethan never has that much Kool-Aid at home...
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Welcome ethanre,
Nice work with that post. I've already phoned and emailed my reps. Many friends did as well. We're doing what we can to combat the massive amounts of misinformation out there, but I'd advise against wasting much time with these two guys. It's about politics for them and they're doing what they can to work against the administration. They would rather see the president fail than concern themselves with the uninsured or uninsurable.-
Thank you
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I would rather see El Presidente stick with one friggin story. First it was about the economy. Then it was about the insurance companies, now it is about choice and price control. Hmmm. Don't think they are focus grouping this do ya?
It would be really easy to cover the 10 - 15 million chronically uninsured Americans. Just expand Medicaid or Medicare to include them. But this isn't about helping people for the Dems, it is about expanding the role of the Government and increasing their power.
If they want to drive down costs, then why won't they allow people or employers to purchase health coverage across state lines?
Go ahead and castigate us, I really don't care about your opinion ruin. You lost all credibility with me (and with any thinking person really) a long time ago when you refused time and again to answer direct questions. You do not want to debate this issue. You only want to spew far left propaganda. If you are so passionate and so knowledgeable about this, then why avoid questions? It is easy, and lazy to just troll for links that you think show your side is right. Yet that is all you do. What are you afraid of? -
You are absolutely correct, this isn't about helping those at the bottom, this is about exercising control over the ones at the top.
I still don't get it, those that want insurance. Should buy insurance. Those that don't want it shouldn't have to.
I agree that insurance companies shouldn't disallow pre-existing conditions, they should look at that condition as part of the risk package and price accordingly. -
Thanks csi, and as usual when I confront ruin with facts and logic, he abandons the discussion. At least the little bugger is consistent.
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I believe debating this topic with the Righties here is useless. So, Mr csiunatc & anticsrocks, if you want to keep chatting with each other ( assuming you are not the same person pretending to be 2) knock yourself out.
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So you are ruin are different people? Or are you pretending?
*shrugs*
If you want to give up that easily, go ahead. I guess you don't believe in your convictions. Talking points only get you so far, I suppose. -
Obama hasn't sent out the cheat sheet on how to debate the actual facts yet.
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*smacks forehead*
Doh!!
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Congress isn't listening. Sorry to pop your bubble.-
Sure they are. They're listening to those who finance their campaigns. That limits the bandwidth left over for citizens.
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They need to throw the whole thing out and start over. Put a committee together with an equal number of democrats and republicans, then add representatives of the entire healthcare system (physicians, hospitals, insurance companies, insurance commissioners, employers-small & large businessess). Keep everyone else out including Obama and lobbyists. Maybe they could come up with some real reform that everyone can get behind.
www.FaithfulinPrayer.wordpress.com-
I agree, it should be scraped, but for a better public option, the health care industry does not have to abide by Federal anti trust laws and the are unregulated, peoples health decisions are made based on stock profit or loss, health insurance should never have been part of the free market - it's unethical. Now that it's such a huge part of the gdp they are hesitant to get rid of it. They should, eventually they will. A government program has stockholder in the form of the people who pay for the insurance it works better that way, and as with insurance you have to pay the cost of care, but you do not have to pay stockholders increasing profits every year leaving you a much larger chunk for the care.
Legislators are running scared so are useless to us no matter what side they are on, they really only want their jobs, the insurance industry has the ability to run ads to destroy their careers, they have done it before, and will do it again.
Letting the industry sit at the table is wrong, the physicians who sit should be non AMA members, and nurses who actually practice clinically and representatives from all socio- economic and geographic sectors.
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